Verizon striking

[sherry7]

The Definition of a Scab

Scabs have been called many things by many people during the course of labor history but Jack London’s description of the scab, “written with barbed wire on sandpaper,” easily dwarfs all others.

“After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a scab.

A scab is a two-legged animal with a cork-screw soul, a water-logged brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.

When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of Hell to keep him out.

No man has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern strikebreaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellow men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation.

Esau was a traitor to himself: Judas Iscariot was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a strikebreaker is a traitor to his God, his country, his wife, his family and his class.”

 

[Swimalie]

Um, no. This is NOT what the USPS is asking Congress for. The USPS is required by law to pre-fund retiree health benefits to the extreme-it's overpaid by BILLIONS right now, and no other private business or govt. agency is under this mandate to this extent The USPS is asking for relief from this mandate. It is not trying to reduce benefits or retirement, and has already eliminated those 120,000 jobs in the last few years-through attrition. Why did you insert misinformation about the USPS into this Verizon thread?

Actually, they are asking to get out of the gov't mandated health and pension programs because they think they can get them elsewhere cheaper. Plus, they are looking to cut 120,000 jobs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...th-care-plan/2011/08/11/gIQAZxIM9I_story.html

 

[undertheradar]

Actually, they are asking to get out of the gov't mandated health and pension programs because they think they can get them elsewhere cheaper. Plus, they are looking to cut 120,000 jobs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...th-care-plan/2011/08/11/gIQAZxIM9I_story.html

I read about this on the CNN website last night.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Actually, they are asking to get out of the gov't mandated health and pension programs because they think they can get them elsewhere cheaper. Plus, they are looking to cut 120,000 jobs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...th-care-plan/2011/08/11/gIQAZxIM9I_story.html

Imagine that!

 

[JVelasquez]

I hope that Verizon comes to it's senses and these workers get the outcome they want and can return to work ASAP.

Those writing about Verizon being fair in what they want to take from these employees... You make me SICK!!!! I would love to hear what you would be saying if it was you on strike or someone you love.

 

[undertheradar]

One could say the same for the striking union workers. Perhaps when they come to their senses they will see how greedy these union demands look to the rest of us and our loved ones. Since the union walked out, I wasn't aware that Verizon didn't allow the union employees to report for work.

 

[sam_gordon]

Those writing about Verizon being fair in what they want to take from these employees... You make me SICK!!!! I would love to hear what you would be saying if it was you on strike or someone you love.

Please tell us what is "fair" (other than keeping the status quo). I have asked this numerous times and no one will answer. Why is that?

Should Verizon just give the union members ANYTHING they want? Would that make you happy?

Also, those of us who aren't on strike, or know anyone on strike don't look at this emotionally.

 

[jennilynn510]

Awww....don't take it personally!
This is the climate all over - it's how the recession and jobs lost make people feel. Unions are not getting any sympathy anywhere right now. They are the scapegoat for the businesses, the businesses that have the right to make as much profit as possible, as noted by a previous poster.

Unions are formed in the beginning to win workers rights and fair wages and safe working conditions and benefits to improve the workers standards of living. Somehow or another when the economy tanks, it is because of the unions. Listen - you will hear this refrain over and over. It's never because of corporate greed or mismanagement.

dont take it personally...its the only way to take it. people get angry because they are not supported by a union and have to pay for their benefits. we are asking for nothing more, just to maintain what we have. i hardly thing a wage of $50-$60k a year is greedy. i live in a $80,000 house & drive a dodge. does that sound greedy to you ? its disappointing that instead of educating yourself on the matter that people automatically jump all over union workers. yes its not just us, teacher also make too much right ? and they get off allllll summer. wonder why we are ranked so low in world education. police and fireman make too much money also, they just sit around till someone calls and make boat loads of money...till they die in a fire or are shot to death on the job. just for a moment, stop and think, how proud you would be to have someone fight on your behalf instead of laying down and just taking what greedy upper management tell you to do. dont whine & complain, apply to a company that has a good secure union & see how greedy you feel.

 

[Muushka]

dont take it personally...its the only way to take it. people get angry because they are not supported by a union and have to pay for their benefits. we are asking for nothing more, just to maintain what we have. i hardly thing a wage of $50-$60k a year is greedy. i live in a $80,000 house & drive a dodge. does that sound greedy to you ? its disappointing that instead of educating yourself on the matter that people automatically jump all over union workers. yes its not just us, teacher also make too much right ? and they get off allllll summer. wonder why we are ranked so low in world education. police and fireman make too much money also, they just sit around till someone calls and make boat loads of money...till they die in a fire or are shot to death on the job. just for a moment, stop and think, how proud you would be to have someone fight on your behalf instead of laying down and just taking what greedy upper management tell you to do. dont whine & complain, apply to a company that has a good secure union & see how greedy you feel.

I know you are upset right now, but I could not let the bolded portion go without commenting.

Do some research as to why we are ranked so low in education throughout the world.

I suggest watching the movie Waiting for Superman.
It may enlighten you as to one reason (amongst many) why people are not thrilled with unions.

 

[Janepod]

Teachers, firefighters, police officers, landline employees ... which one of these is not like the other?

 

[sam_gordon]

dont take it personally...its the only way to take it. people get angry because they are not supported by a union and have to pay for their benefits. we are asking for nothing more, just to maintain what we have. i hardly thing a wage of $50-$60k a year is greedy. i live in a $80,000 house & drive a dodge. does that sound greedy to you ? its disappointing that instead of educating yourself on the matter that people automatically jump all over union workers. yes its not just us, teacher also make too much right ? and they get off allllll summer. wonder why we are ranked so low in world education. police and fireman make too much money also, they just sit around till someone calls and make boat loads of money...till they die in a fire or are shot to death on the job. just for a moment, stop and think, how proud you would be to have someone fight on your behalf instead of laying down and just taking what greedy upper management tell you to do. dont whine & complain, apply to a company that has a good secure union & see how greedy you feel.

Yes, don't take it personally. I for one am not angry over the VZ strike. Unions can do whatever they want to. It's my OPINION however that they are not fighting the right fight. All I (and others) have been saying is the union members have had a good run not having to pay for healthcare and getting fully funded pensions. For most people, those BENEFITS ran out long ago. Is it a shame? Yes. Do I wish my employer still did those things? Sure. But I can leave anytime I like. The good at this job WELL outweighs the bad.

 

[Judique]

Again, put down the koolaid and slowly walk away. Not employed by Verizon, just a customer who has multiple cell lines and the unfortunate luck to have FIOS. Talk about propaganda: the CEO makes $55,000 per day, Verizon made $22.9 BILLION dollars in 4 years. Every clip of the unions gathering and every interview spews the same. The reality is that your landline division is losing customers daily and your division provides an obsolete product, plain and simple. Add to it that your union labor costs are higher than any of the other divisions and your fully funded benefits are not equal to what the rest of the employees receive and you want the rest of the non-union employees to subsidize your compensation.

Not a Verizon employee here. Not even a customer. Just watching you perform......

 

[threecrazykids]

dont take it personally...its the only way to take it. people get angry because they are not supported by a union and have to pay for their benefits.we are asking for nothing more, just to maintain what we have. i hardly thing a wage of $50-$60k a year is greedy. i live in a $80,000 house & drive a dodge. does that sound greedy to you ? its disappointing that instead of educating yourself on the matter that people automatically jump all over union workers. yes its not just us, teacher also make too much right ? and they get off allllll summer. wonder why we are ranked so low in world education. police and fireman make too much money also, they just sit around till someone calls and make boat loads of money...till they die in a fire or are shot to death on the job. just for a moment, stop and think, how proud you would be to have someone fight on your behalf instead of laying down and just taking what greedy upper management tell you to do. dont whine & complain, apply to a company that has a good secure union & see how greedy you feel.

Whoa, whoa, whoa (to the bolded)! The majority of the workforce does NOT get angry that we have to pay monthly premiums for our benefits...we've been doing it since the day we started working in this world! It's the UNION workers who get their panties in a bunch when they have to pay anything, not the other 90% of the workforce (I believe the last # I saw unions represented 11.9% of the workforce.) Again, you just want what you've always had? Well in a perfect world, so does everyone. I'd like to go back to the days of 10% pay increases, no worries about losing my job, etc.
The problem is that the unions have rode the 'status quo" train for soooo long they don't realize what the rest of the 90% of us have been dealing with for years!
Basically the union workers of VZ are now feeling what it's like to NOT have your job secure...to wonder every day just how valued you really are. Yes, I feel bad for the people who are out of work...just like I feel bad for the 25% of my department that has been cut over the last 5-7 years.
Again...WHY do you feel you aren't subject to these realities of todays world?

Teachers, firefighters, police officers, landline employees ... which one of these is not like the other?

Exactly... THIS is the mentality that has put these people in the position they are in. "I am priceless, irreplaceable, this company will CRUMBLE without ME and all my irreplaceable brothers and sisters too!"

How many people do you see running out to be police officers and firefighters? OR...how many people would take a customer service job making $30-40 an hour with 100% benefits paid? Heck, how many of you who are unemployed would take that pay WITHOUT benefits at this point?

 

[Janepod]

There is a correct place for unions in the private sector (e.g. Verizon) and that's to create balance between labor and management. However, a shareholder-owned company like Verizon has to make money (as opposed to teachers, firefighters, police officers, sanitation, etc.) How do public companies do this? By providing their goods/services at a competitive price. It's getting more and more difficult to do this without outsourcing or asking everyone to get a haircut. That's unfortunate for the numerous employees who are accustomed to not paying into health insurance or pensions (not talking about copays/deductibles, but health insurance premiums) but the reality is, if you want the company to stay in business and thrive, the union is going to have to make concessions.

Remember what happened to the Big 3 automakers.

 

[undertheradar]

Thank you! I was about to post on this.

Spreading misinformation is a common propaganda tactic - because so many people will take it at face value and not do research, because it is not really their issue at the moment.

Remember folks - behind that internet posting alias could be anybody unless you know them personally in a real world setting.

We've seen quite a bit of exaggeration in this thread.

The 'big guy' who is making money off your labor does not have your back at all cost. Your greatest value is while you are a producer at minimum expense. Your long term welfare means nothing to big business - they are looking at the bottom line, not whether you are taking home a living wage (dump that 'fair' - it's not relevant).

Life goes in cycles - look at history - the future is in the past.

Masterpiece Theater

 

[Muushka]

There is a correct place for unions in the private sector (e.g. Verizon) and that's to create balance between labor and management. However, a shareholder-owned company like Verizon has to make money (as opposed to teachers, firefighters, police officers, sanitation, etc.) How do public companies do this? By providing their goods/services at a competitive price. It's getting more and more difficult to do this without outsourcing or asking everyone to get a haircut. That's unfortunate for the numerous employees who are accustomed to not paying into health insurance or pensions (not talking about copays/deductibles, but health insurance premiums) but the reality is, if you want the company to stay in business and thrive, the union is going to have to make concessions.

Remember what happened to the Big 3 automakers.

And THE most irritating part of the big 3 automakers?
Once again, the taxpayer ended up paying the penalty for union contracts.

 

[undertheradar]

Not a Verizon employee here. Not even a customer. Just watching you perform......

Care to elaborate? You should catch up on the community board thread about CEO compensation.

 

[lisaross]

I am actually Lisa’s husband, the Verizon worker. I’ve read some of the posts and was sincerely disappointed in the closed minded miserable people. Please let me begin by stating what the REAL situation is.
Verizon wants to freeze our pensions. Now to those of you who don’t have one and seem to be jealous of anyone that might, let me explain that for the last 19 years of my life, my family has lived in the belief that retirement is a reality. For those current retirees, they can never get an increase no matter what percentage the cost of living goes up. So in other words “Screw you grandpa!”
Verizon’s health care plans have sincerely deteriorated over the years forcing us to take lesser ones. I know those of you who have to pay for it now says that we should be paying anyway. Well misery loves company. There is not one person on this board that wouldn’t want and love to have it paid for them. Don’t be jealous; be grateful that there is still a company that can set a trend for you. And how many of you would willingly accept a 10 % decrease in salary (compensating for the cost of health care).
The company also wants to eliminate our sick time, our overtime benefits, some of our paid holidays, job security and MY FREAKEN TITLE! The company allowed me to spend 4 years of my life earning the title with the understanding of keeping the increased salary and pension until my retirement, and then my pension. There are many other take backs as well.
I keep on hearing that unions are destroying the country. The whole idea of the union is to protect a middle class job and keep us from poverty. Did anyone who believes that unions are destroying the country realize that only 7% of the entire country is still union. That’s because of the “ME” mentality. Stop being jealous of people that have that shows what a small person you are.
I am proud to say that I have personally made a lot of money for Verizon as an installer. Verizon is a very profitable company. They made 5 ½ BILLION last quarter. My problem is that they are sending these profits overseas to pay for their bad investments. Don’t take it out on the hard working workers who actually earned the profits. The company has been sabotaging the customers by ignoring their needs and cutting off supplies. This is fact.
The only reason that I am posting this is because my wife told me a few of your comments and I felt it necessary to correct you. The union is not evil. The workers are not greedy or primadonas, and all we want is to continue our lives in the same comfort that we’ve worked hard for. I invite your comments.

 

[jennilynn510]

Awww....don't take it personally!
This is the climate all over - it's how the recession and jobs lost make people feel. Unions are not getting any sympathy anywhere right now. They are the scapegoat for the businesses, the businesses that have the right to make as much profit as possible, as noted by a previous poster.

Unions are formed in the beginning to win workers rights and fair wages and safe working conditions and benefits to improve the workers standards of living. Somehow or another when the economy tanks, it is because of the unions. Listen - you will hear this refrain over and over. It's never because of corporate greed or mismanagement.

I am actually Lisa’s husband, the Verizon worker. I’ve read some of the posts and was sincerely disappointed in the closed minded miserable people. Please let me begin by stating what the REAL situation is.
Verizon wants to freeze our pensions. Now to those of you who don’t have one and seem to be jealous of anyone that might, let me explain that for the last 19 years of my life, my family has lived in the belief that retirement is a reality. For those current retirees, they can never get an increase no matter what percentage the cost of living goes up. So in other words “Screw you grandpa!”
Verizon’s health care plans have sincerely deteriorated over the years forcing us to take lesser ones. I know those of you who have to pay for it now says that we should be paying anyway. Well misery loves company. There is not one person on this board that wouldn’t want and love to have it paid for them. Don’t be jealous; be grateful that there is still a company that can set a trend for you. And how many of you would willingly accept a 10 % decrease in salary (compensating for the cost of health care).
The company also wants to eliminate our sick time, our overtime benefits, some of our paid holidays, job security and MY FREAKEN TITLE! The company allowed me to spend 4 years of my life earning the title with the understanding of keeping the increased salary and pension until my retirement, and then my pension. There are many other take backs as well.
I keep on hearing that unions are destroying the country. The whole idea of the union is to protect a middle class job and keep us from poverty. Did anyone who believes that unions are destroying the country realize that only 7% of the entire country is still union. That’s because of the “ME” mentality. Stop being jealous of people that have that shows what a small person you are.
I am proud to say that I have personally made a lot of money for Verizon as an installer. Verizon is a very profitable company. They made 5 ½ BILLION last quarter. My problem is that they are sending these profits overseas to pay for their bad investments. Don’t take it out on the hard working workers who actually earned the profits. The company has been sabotaging the customers by ignoring their needs and cutting off supplies. This is fact.
The only reason that I am posting this is because my wife told me a few of your comments and I felt it necessary to correct you. The union is not evil. The workers are not greedy or primadonas, and all we want is to continue our lives in the same comfort that we’ve worked hard for. I invite your comments.

i'll comment...AMEN BROTHER !!! i am so discouraged to see on here people i felt a connection to (disney love <3) turn like a dog backed into a corner. middle class america is under attack, whether you belong to a union or not. whether you pay or dont pay for benefits, whether you have a pension or not, whether you can afford disney trips or not. in todays world of jealousy and hate, wouldnt a little compassion and understanding go a long way. to those of you who dont have what people in the union due. i'm sorry, please come join us, apply for our companies, be a electician, a teacher, a plumber, a food worker, a fireman...dream big, there is plenty of openings in union jobs. but if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing but perhaps good luck.

 

[undertheradar]

So, exactly which amount of the $5.9 Billion is profit from your division? This is along the same line that every union release portrays. Yes, you are being asked to help pay towards your ever increasing healthcare costs, imagine if you had none? You stated that only 7% of the country remain union, so how exactly is the 7% fighting for the middle class? Something I have asked others to define over on the community board is what do you think is middle class. I understand that they are asking for a lot but that looks to be normal when you negotiate for contract lengths. I read on CNN that the number of vacation days being taken away is 2, others here have posted 4, which is it? I don't work for Verizon or any of the competitors, I just cannot get over the spin from both sides. To be honest, I received PMs that tried to explain the union side of this, but they fail to understand that the parties involved are too emotional. I don't understand the logic of picketing at the wireless stores or the idea that walking off the job the minute the contract ended showed strength by the union. There appears to be middle ground and both sides are going to have to give things up. It looks as if this all could have been avoided with some compromise on both sides.