vent: Hall of Presidents incites my gay rage

[lillielil]

"and we thought it would be funny to sneak a kiss or two during Bush's speech.
Instead, I just got angry."

Instead of agenda, I should have said you went in there with the idea of making a statement. I think it's wonderful you want to kiss your wife...but you made a point of doing it while Bush was speaking...obviously because you wanted to basically say to him something else. And that's fine. And then you became angry. You knew he was there, and you know his philosophy. All I was trying to say is let's all just chill out and relax. If we can't do that in WDW, then we are not really enjoying life the way we should.

Trust me, I'm not attacking you even though you feel I am.

I think you have horribly misinterpreted the situation. It's not like we were making a stand in front of a puppet... Disney voodoo doesn't work that way. A kiss is just a kiss, be it in Hall of Presidents or on Tower of Terror (one just happens to be a bit easier to do ) Not everything we do has to be for a great purpose. Sometimes when two adults love each other very much, they like to kiss, and if there's a pinch of irony involved it's that much better.

And yes, I know his philosophy. I found it offensive that what his animatronic dummy was saying was so far from his actual philosophy. I found it insulting and degrading, and I think it's unreasonable that you think I should have just ignored it. After so many years, one gets a bit tired of ignoring things like that. Even if you find it insignificant, I do not.

WDW is a place of fantasy and make believe. We do go there to escape the pressures of the real world. But we can never "escape" being lesbian or gay.

Insincerety or hypocracy can immediately interrupt even the sweetest of times at the fairytale land of WDW.

Georgie is not very adept with words, to be sure. However, listening to him expound on something that does not exist for us in the lesbian and gay world does incite rage. Disgust comes to mind too.

Agenda. Ayuh. We have one. Equality in the eyes of the constitution. Some agenda, huh?

Very well stated. Our agenda is simply to have the same rights as every other tax paying adult in this United States. Until that day comes, said agenda will be paramount in most of our minds and actions.

Equality? That's crazy talk!! We should totally be happy with the scraps that are thrown to us now and then, and enjoy them while they last before - YANK! They're gone again! (I'm looking at you, Hawaii)

 

[OrlandoMike]

Did I forget to send everyone their agenda again!

Sorry!

Here it is....

6:00 am Gym
8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites)
9:00 am Hair appointment
10:00 am Shopping
12:00 PM Brunch

2:00 PM
1) Assume complete control of the U.S. Federal, State and Local
Governments as well as all other national governments,
2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle,
3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages,
4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of drug cartels,
and
5) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the
exclusive use of DIS GLBT folks.

2:30 PM Get forty winks of beauty rest to prevent facial wrinkles from
stress of world conquest
4:00 PM Cocktails
6:00 PM Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay)
8:00 PM Theater
11:00 PM Bed

 

[hematite153]

It can't be just me, right? In September I finally experienced the Hall of Presidents for the first time.

No, it's not just you.

I've always assumed that it was my Canadian upbringing that was responsible for my cringing (and anger) at lines like:

...Equality before the law,...

...Most governments have been based on the denial of rights....

Maybe, even though the sentiments expressed during the HOP are so different from his normal actions, Bush's speech will help people to understand how important it is to continue striving for actual equality.

I think it's wonderful you want to kiss your wife...but you made a point of doing it while Bush was speaking...obviously because you wanted to basically say to him something else.

I'd just like to be clear...when I kiss my wife, I have no political agenda other than expressing my love to her. The back of a dark theatre sounds like a good location and one used by many couples. (Yes, I might choose to wait if I thought it was an inappropriate location for any couple to kiss. But, I would never choose a location because of an agenda!)

 

[lillielil]

*sigh* I love you guys. Awww.. warm fuzzies all around.

 

[red_velvet_rose]

Did I forget to send everyone their agenda again!

Sorry!

Here it is....

6:00 am Gym
8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites)
9:00 am Hair appointment
10:00 am Shopping
12:00 PM Brunch

2:00 PM
1) Assume complete control of the U.S. Federal, State and Local
Governments as well as all other national governments,
2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle,
3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages,
4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of drug cartels,
and
5) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the
exclusive use of DIS GLBT folks.

2:30 PM Get forty winks of beauty rest to prevent facial wrinkles from
stress of world conquest
4:00 PM Cocktails
6:00 PM Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay)
8:00 PM Theater
11:00 PM Bed

You left out our own personal debauchery time!

Rosie

 

[Kaler131]

I think the HOP was soooo much better when Clinton was prez. I can't wait to see it when Hillary is added to it!

 

[red_velvet_rose]

I think the HOP was soooo much better when Clinton was prez. I can't wait to see it when Hillary is added to it!

Or Obama. Would be nice to see a nice, multi-racial man or a woman up amidst all that WASP-y-ness.

(Please note, all is said in a totally playful manner.)

Rose

 

[perdidochas]

It can't be just me, right? In September I finally experienced the Hall of Presidents for the first time. I was excited about it (because I get excited about things like that - I could happily watch "1776" every day of the week), and we thought it would be funny to sneak a kiss or two during Bush's speech.

Instead, I just got angry. We actually laughed out loud at one part because it was so ridiculous...


Bush's speech:

"My Fellow Americans,

[Kissing commences]

when we look back on the history of this country, we see a record of almost unbelievable energy, sacrifice, hard work - of impossible dreams that our ancestors dreamed and made real. We see injustice, too, ...

[Kissing stopps]

...that weighs on our hearts even today. But for every injustice there has always been a voice crying out to right it. And America has always listened to those voices.

[Puzzled looks]

"We're listening today. And perhaps it falls to us, to this first generation of 21st century Americans to say, once and for all, that no child, no race, no creed, no ethnic community will ever again be left out of the American dream. Through education, through the opportunity to work and to enjoy the fruits of that work, we can open every closed door. We expand the horizons of every American.

"Again and again we return to the same simple principles - freedom, equality; the freedom to create, to prosper, to dream; Equality before the law,...

[involuntary snorts of laughter]

... in the workplace, and the chance for a better life. And each time in the process America grows stronger. The beacon of democracy grows brighter. The world looks with new astonishment at what free people can do. We the people are just getting started."

And Lincoln's didn't do much to help:

"My fellow countrymen, I have often inquired of myself, what great principle or idea it was that kept this confederacy so long together. It was that all should have an equal chance, that all are created equal. This is the sentiment embodied in the Declaration of Independence. Most governments have been based on the denial of rights.

[groans]

Ours began by affirming our rights. Let us turn this government into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it. If we cannot give freedom to every creature, let us do nothing that will impose upon another creature. True democracy makes no inquiry about the color of the skin, or place of birth, or any other circumstance or condition. We propose to give all a chance. We expect the weak to grow stronger, the ignorant wiser, and all better and happier together. Let it be as nearly reached as we can. For the struggle of today is not altogether for today. It is for the vast future also. So may our children, and our children's children for a thousand generations rejoice under those glorious institutions bequeathed us by Washington and continue to enjoy the benefits conferred upon us by a united country."

I think I'll skip it next time. I wish they'd scrap it and just have a random theater with Ben Franklin quoting himself...

I'm confused. What was wrong about what they said?

 

[perdidochas]

I'm not objecting to his presence. I object to his words, which don't exactly ring true to me.

So what? They are good ideals, regardless of your feeling they are true or not.

Let's look at the speech, minus your commentary:

Bush's speech:

"My Fellow Americans, when we look back on the history of this country, we see a record of almost unbelievable energy, sacrifice, hard work - of impossible dreams that our ancestors dreamed and made real. We see injustice, too, that weighs on our hearts even today. But for every injustice there has always been a voice crying out to right it. And America has always listened to those voices.

"We're listening today. And perhaps it falls to us, to this first generation of 21st century Americans to say, once and for all, that no child, no race, no creed, no ethnic community will ever again be left out of the American dream. Through education, through the opportunity to work and to enjoy the fruits of that work, we can open every closed door. We expand the horizons of every American. Again and again we return to the same simple principles - freedom, equality; the freedom to create, to prosper, to dream; Equality before the law, in the workplace, and the chance for a better life. And each time in the process America grows stronger. The beacon of democracy grows brighter. The world looks with new astonishment at what free people can do. We the people are just getting started."

That sounds like the America I want to live in.

Now, true, we may not be accomplishing all of that to the extent that we should, but they are good ideals.

 

[RickinNYC]

So what? They are good ideals, regardless of your feeling they are true or not.

Let's look at the speech, minus your commentary:

Bush's speech:

"My Fellow Americans, when we look back on the history of this country, we see a record of almost unbelievable energy, sacrifice, hard work - of impossible dreams that our ancestors dreamed and made real. We see injustice, too, that weighs on our hearts even today. But for every injustice there has always been a voice crying out to right it. And America has always listened to those voices.

"We're listening today. And perhaps it falls to us, to this first generation of 21st century Americans to say, once and for all, that no child, no race, no creed, no ethnic community will ever again be left out of the American dream. Through education, through the opportunity to work and to enjoy the fruits of that work, we can open every closed door. We expand the horizons of every American. Again and again we return to the same simple principles - freedom, equality; the freedom to create, to prosper, to dream; Equality before the law, in the workplace, and the chance for a better life. And each time in the process America grows stronger. The beacon of democracy grows brighter. The world looks with new astonishment at what free people can do. We the people are just getting started."

That sounds like the America I want to live in.

Now, true, we may not be accomplishing all of that to the extent that we should, but they are good ideals.

It would be the same America I think we all would love to live in but we DO NOT. What part of "we return to the same simple principles - freedom, equality; the freedom to create, to prosper, to dream; Equality before the law, in the workplace, and the chance for a better life." is not understandable?

Gay men and lesbians do not have the same rights attributable to all adult tax paying Americans. To think otherwise is preposterous and you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Got Quattro?]

Gay men and lesbians do not have the same rights attributable to all adult tax paying Americans. To think otherwise is preposterous and you are only fooling yourself.

Because we are a country that for the most part is built on majority rule. What ever most of the population belives is what dictates our laws and ways of doing things.

The facts show, that the majority of the population belives that a legal union is between a man and woman. Period. Therefore, gay couples are not granted the same rights / benifits as heterosexual couples.

It has been this way since the dawn of time. yet the gay community feals discriminated against. While we are open to change, you cant expect it to happen over night. It took 300 years to obolish slavery in North America.

It may take 300 years to truly have gay / lesbians afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Finally, in regards to W. Yes he has made mistakes. Yes he is a very poor speaker. But the facts are correct, we are safer now than we were on 9-10-2001. And the Clinton family you all hold so dear had a major part to play in the overall bafoonery on the entire governments part in 9/11.

As one poster has said, if you dont respect the man, respect the office of our country. And if change is truly what you desire...go out and make it happen.

 

[NYBlue1]

Because we are a country that for the most part is built on majority rule. What ever most of the population belives is what dictates our laws and ways of doing things.

The facts show, that the majority of the population belives that a legal union is between a man and woman. Period. Therefore, gay couples are not granted the same rights / benifits as heterosexual couples.

It has been this way since the dawn of time. yet the gay community feals discriminated against. While we are open to change, you cant expect it to happen over night. It took 300 years to obolish slavery in North America.

It may take 300 years to truly have gay / lesbians afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Finally, in regards to W. Yes he has made mistakes. Yes he is a very poor speaker. But the facts are correct, we are safer now than we were on 9-10-2001. And the Clinton family you all hold so dear had a major part to play in the overall bafoonery on the entire governments part in 9/11.

As one poster has said, if you dont respect the man, respect the office of our country. And if change is truly what you desire...go out and make it happen.

If majority rules were the case we would still have slaves , african americans would not be eating , drinking going to the same places as other americans. Interacial couples would be looked down on as not good enough to be married. This country has changed because couragous people have stood up for what is right and got the ball rolling for the right thing to be done. It has been THAT way since the dawn of time. Our fellow americans can not be counted on to do the right thing which has been going on since the dawn of time. Thank God for other avenues of change other than majority rules.

Your opinion of the state of security is that we are now more safe than before 9/11. Thats your opinion and the opinion of those that support our president right now, that is certainly not a proven fact either.

I dont know who the "you all that hold clinton so dear is" but I never voted for the man and never particularly cared for his wife. You need to stop sterotyping all of "us people".

This president , IMO has made a mockery of the presidency and I have zero respect for him for so so many reasons, most of them being his attitude of a King or a dictator not a president of the people.

So you are going to have to try harder to convince me otherwise , I would recoment leaving your periods and you peoples out of it the next time if you want to even keep anybodies attention. Trust me, lots of americans, not just Gay ones, are going to go out and make it happen.

 

[RickinNYC]

Because we are a country that for the most part is built on majority rule. What ever most of the population belives is what dictates our laws and ways of doing things.

The facts show, that the majority of the population belives that a legal union is between a man and woman. Period. Therefore, gay couples are not granted the same rights / benifits as heterosexual couples.

It has been this way since the dawn of time. yet the gay community feals discriminated against. While we are open to change, you cant expect it to happen over night. It took 300 years to obolish slavery in North America.

It may take 300 years to truly have gay / lesbians afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Finally, in regards to W. Yes he has made mistakes. Yes he is a very poor speaker. But the facts are correct, we are safer now than we were on 9-10-2001. And the Clinton family you all hold so dear had a major part to play in the overall bafoonery on the entire governments part in 9/11.

As one poster has said, if you dont respect the man, respect the office of our country. And if change is truly what you desire...go out and make it happen.

10/22/07 - Per the Bloomberg poll: 56% find gay marriage or at least civil unions acceptable

Now, you can post your own research to refute mine, and I'm certain you will.

As for the president, no, I don't respect the man and I stopped respecting the office once it was occupied by such a horrifying disgrace for a human being.

And I do go out and make it happen bud. Trust me. And even if I weren't personally impacted by the current administration and that sorry excuse for a president impersonator, I'd still share in the disgrace that little boy has brought onto this country.

 

[lillielil]

Because we are a country that for the most part is built on majority rule. What ever most of the population belives is what dictates our laws and ways of doing things.

The facts show, that the majority of the population belives that a legal union is between a man and woman. Period. Therefore, gay couples are not granted the same rights / benifits as heterosexual couples.

It has been this way since the dawn of time. yet the gay community feals discriminated against. While we are open to change, you cant expect it to happen over night. It took 300 years to obolish slavery in North America.

It may take 300 years to truly have gay / lesbians afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Finally, in regards to W. Yes he has made mistakes. Yes he is a very poor speaker. But the facts are correct, we are safer now than we were on 9-10-2001. And the Clinton family you all hold so dear had a major part to play in the overall bafoonery on the entire governments part in 9/11.

As one poster has said, if you dont respect the man, respect the office of our country. And if change is truly what you desire...go out and make it happen.

Do you know what percent of the US population supported interracial marriage when it was legalized in 1967? 14 percent! Majority ruly isn't necessarily the best option.

Maybe, since I'm not granted the same rights, I should stop paying that dang government to do its job. Yes, I am bitter. Thanks.

 

[Magpie]

We're Canadians. Last time we visited the HOP, My-Son-the-Political-Junkie was seven. He was pretty good through the rest of the presidents, but as soon as we got to Bush Jr, he started making snarky comments during his speech. And this was in 2005!

I had to clap my hand over his mouth and sternly remind him that we were *guests* in this country, and while we're guests we don't say mean things about their president!

So I'm still on the fence as to whether we'll see HOP when we visit this year. On the one hand, it's a good quick-and-dirty review of American history. On the other hand, the boy is older and more opinionated than ever... Do I dare take the kid with an "Al Gore for President 2008" bumper sticker on his bedroom door to the HOP?

 

[skyhawk]

It just bothers me that EVERYTHING needs to be politicised (sp?). I mean, Pirates of the Carribbean could offend the Femininist Movement because of the way the women are presented as property. And come to think of it, the whole attraction glorifies piracy - robbing, murder, death and destruction. But as a WDW attraction, you can appreciate the artistic achievements. Thats how the HOP should be. Visit it and appreciate it for what it is. It's NOT trying to make a statemernt, so let's not be offended by it. Let's all lighten up a bit.

 

[lillielil]

It just bothers me that EVERYTHING needs to be politicised (sp?). I mean, Pirates of the Carribbean could offend the Femininist Movement because of the way the women are presented as property. And come to think of it, the whole attraction glorifies piracy - robbing, murder, death and destruction. But as a WDW attraction, you can appreciate the artistic achievements. Thats how the HOP should be. Visit it and appreciate it for what it is. It's NOT trying to make a statemernt, so let's not be offended by it. Let's all lighten up a bit.

It's awesome that you're not offended by it. Hey, that's one piece of magic that you get to enjoy that I can't. However, it offends me greatly. I can't just flip a switch and not be offended any more. I do appreciate the artistic achievements; I don't appreciate the blatant lies. I'm not sitting around thinking "Hmm... how can I enjoy my favorite place on the whole planet LESS?" No way! I was so looking forward to seeing HOP, and was really sad that I didn't enjoy it. I don't think I need your permission to be dissapointed and angry.

 

[Magpie]

It just bothers me that EVERYTHING needs to be politicised (sp?). I mean, Pirates of the Carribbean could offend the Femininist Movement because of the way the women are presented as property. And come to think of it, the whole attraction glorifies piracy - robbing, murder, death and destruction. But as a WDW attraction, you can appreciate the artistic achievements. Thats how the HOP should be. Visit it and appreciate it for what it is. It's NOT trying to make a statemernt, so let's not be offended by it. Let's all lighten up a bit.

But how can you NOT feel political about a show that features a whole lot of politicians?

 

[skyhawk]

Well then I'm sure you must despise HOP because it depicts Thomas Jefferson as one of our greatest presidents - who just happened to be a slave owner. Thomnas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence declaring all men equal. In my opinion, this is worse and more hypocritical than what Bush says.

 

[Magpie]

Well then I'm sure you must despise HOP because it depicts Thomas Jefferson as one of our greatest presidents - who just happened to be a slave owner. Thomnas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration of Independence declaring all men equal. In my opinion, this is worse and more hypocritical than what Bush says.

Nope, don't despise it. Just find it highly amusing. So much of your American history is mythology - and I'm saying this as a history major, fwiw.

Erm... was it HOP or the American Adventure where the old Indian guy stomped out onto stage and yelled at all of us? THAT sure woke us up!

We enjoy the shows, and we're looking forward to seeing them again. They've sparked some terrific discussions in our family. But I also understand how people like the OP can feel offended. There's a lot of hurt going around in the US these days.

*wanders off whistling that song from the Dixie Chicks... *