Close call in my neighborhood....

[sam_gordon]

The kid should have been paying attention, but the van is more at fault for driving too fast at the very least. We've noticed in NH anyway, it seems that yield means nothing and stop is optional. We blame it on the out of state people who have moved into NH (we started to notice in the 1970's). They bring their bad driving habits with them and don't seem to every "get it".

But there was no Yield or Stop signs for the van.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

One of the selling points of the neighborhood was the traffic calming features. I think it’s really a way for the developer to spend less on asphalt.

There are three or four middle medians like what you showed in the neighborhood where the road splits for 3-4 car lengths and there is a concrete median in the middle.

I watched one day as the car in front of me didn’t navigate around the median well and their passenger front tire popped off their car as they caught the curb just wrong.

Our roads are narrower than what you pictured. Here is a street view of one of them. Also shows the typical street width.

View attachment 1035994

Roads around here in the neighborhoods are the city's responsibility in general so I'm not sure the developer would save much by narrowing the road, once its built the city does the maintenance on it. But I do think it's more attractive here for more space whereas your picture shows a more closed in feel so depending on the developer and what they hope to get out of it even if it was their responsibility they would keep that part in mind. We have a few very specific neighborhoods in the metro that are designed to mimic "urban cores" others "city centers" (where apartments are built above businesses) but by in large in suburbia more space is desired.

We have landscape dividers here too like you show but I will say not normally like that because of the tree roots and the trimming the tree would need usually something like that would be done on a wider road or in some cases a wide cul-de-sac. Maybe not always but more often than not.

Everyone has a two or three car garage and a drive way that can fit 4 plus cars.

Parking on the street is an exception and generally only temporary visitors of some sort.

No one in my neighborhood has less than a 3 car garage, some have 4-6 cars (though that's more lot dependent) but people do still park on the street. My neighbor to my left has 3 kids, 2 park in the driveway at an angle on the 3rd car bay spot leaving the main garage available for the dad, the 3rd parks on the street. The wider roads definitely help with navigating that aspect because even though you move over as a 'just in case' you're not at risk of getting a mirror taken off. I'd say more often than not in suburbia here they built/build the roads to be wider. While not always adhered to not blocking the sidewalk on the driveway is something people are supposed to do.

 

[MICKIMINI]

But there was no Yield or Stop signs for the van.

The van seemed to be going too fast for a residential neighborhood. Kids do reckless things, but the driver of the van needs to be in control for the situation, which is a residential neighborhood where you expect bikes, dogs and walkers. The kid was oblivious. Van driver going too fast.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The kid should have been paying attention, but the van is more at fault for driving too fast at the very least. We've noticed in NH anyway, it seems that yield means nothing and stop is optional. We blame it on the out of state people who have moved into NH (we started to notice in the 1970's). They bring their bad driving habits with them and don't seem to every "get it".

Aside from the stop sign or yield sign IMO the single biggest thing that would have gone a lot way to reduce risk with the kid in the video is if they were using the sidewalk, them being on the street (or when they cross busy roads or major intersections) is the main risk. A calming device might have slowed down the van but that kid was also not treating the road with any sort of care.

A least if they had been on the sidewalk taking the turn faster may or may not have put them in harm's way (like if they went too fast and fell off) but it was assuredly the case when they were on the road itself. Drivers driving too fast and/or not paying attention are an issue too but people do not realize how bad the situation is with these kids on these e-bikes and e-scooters. A hit by a vehicle going slow can cause death or great harm to these children. In reality these devices do not belong on actual roads, at least by minors. E-bikes have been around for a while used by adults for a while and it hasn't been anywhere near the issue it has been in the last couple of years with the youth using them.

It may not yet be an issue in every person's area but I've seen how much of a safety risk these have gotten in my area and with so many dash cams and so many ring cameras you can see that the drivers are overwhelmingly not the main cause here (at least in my area).

 

[Brian rhymes with dyin]

Aside from the stop sign or yield sign IMO the single biggest thing that would have gone a lot way to reduce risk with the kid in the video is if they were using the sidewalk, them being on the street (or when they cross busy roads or major intersections) is the main risk. A calming device might have slowed down the van but that kid was also not treating the road with any sort of care.

A least if they had been on the sidewalk taking the turn faster may or may not have put them in harm's way (like if they went too fast and fell off) but it was assuredly the case when they were on the road itself. Drivers driving too fast and/or not paying attention are an issue too but people do not realize how bad the situation is with these kids on these e-bikes and e-scooters. A hit by a vehicle going slow can cause death or great harm to these children. In reality these devices do not belong on actual roads, at least by minors. E-bikes have been around for a while used by adults for a while and it hasn't been anywhere near the issue it has been in the last couple of years with the youth using them.

It may not yet be an issue in every person's area but I've seen how much of a safety risk these have gotten in my area and with so many dash cams and so many ring cameras you can see that the drivers are overwhelmingly not the main cause here (at least in my area).

Kid wasn't using the sidewalk because they wanted to go fast and take wide turns?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Kid wasn't using the sidewalk because they wanted to go fast and take wide turns?

Um no that's not what I said..

I said if the child was using the sidewalk then if they had taken a turn too fast or wide (the idea being they are inattentive themselves being kids and that kid didn't even pause when they made the turn from one street to the next) then the likelihood of harm might have mitigated (think about the egress of the grass, not having to stop at the stop sign, etc), but riding on the street there is almost no mitigation for safety.

 

[monsterkitty]

Looking at the time frame, at 44:31 the kid is passed the stop sign and has entered the cross-traffic lane. The Van is not yet in the frame BUT the driver should have seen the kid and should have begun to apply the brakes.

I agree. However, what probably happened was the driver was using bad words towards all the cars parked on the street. He was probably paying attention to those and not looking ahead.

 

[lanejudy]

Probably an unpopular opinion -- but I fault the parents of the kid who provided him with a motorized device to ride and (presumably) never taught him that he must follow the laws of the road when using it. So many more kids on motorized devices (scooters, ebikes, ATVs, even those stupid little mini jeeps). Parents given them to kids as toys, but they are much more than a toy. Nobody bothers to teach the kids proper road rules.

 

[monsterkitty]

Aside from the stop sign or yield sign IMO the single biggest thing that would have gone a lot way to reduce risk with the kid in the video is if they were using the sidewalk, them being on the street (or when they cross busy roads or major intersections) is the main risk. A calming device might have slowed down the van but that kid was also not treating the road with any sort of care.

A least if they had been on the sidewalk taking the turn faster may or may not have put them in harm's way (like if they went too fast and fell off) but it was assuredly the case when they were on the road itself. Drivers driving too fast and/or not paying attention are an issue too but people do not realize how bad the situation is with these kids on these e-bikes and e-scooters. A hit by a vehicle going slow can cause death or great harm to these children. In reality these devices do not belong on actual roads, at least by minors. E-bikes have been around for a while used by adults for a while and it hasn't been anywhere near the issue it has been in the last couple of years with the youth using them.

It may not yet be an issue in every person's area but I've seen how much of a safety risk these have gotten in my area and with so many dash cams and so many ring cameras you can see that the drivers are overwhelmingly not the main cause here (at least in my area).

Riding an e-bike or scooter on sidewalks here is against the law. If they have a motor they must be on the street.

Let's face it, kids and e-bikes/scooters are a bad idea. It is rare they follow the rules of the road and when on the sidewalks, they blow past people walking. They should be banned for children under 16.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Kid wasn't using the sidewalk because they wanted to go fast and take wide turns?

In general, it's more dangerous for kids to be riding bikes and scooters on the sidewalk. Reason being, when they come to an intersection, the cars are not looking for small vehicles to be speeding across the intersection in the crosswalk. Not to mention, they might hit a pedestrian.

to OP:
I am stunned about the lackadaisical attitude about following simple traffic rules in your RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. The city can put in all the street furniture they want, it won't make any difference if people think nothing of blowing though stop signs, driving on the wrong side of the road, speeding, heck, probably spitting on the sidewalk, littering and jaywalking too.

 

[MillauFr]

If a street isn't two lanes, then if any car is parked on the street, no other cars could get by.

That is the point. Someone has to pull over by a driveway so the other car can pass. Keeps speeds way down increasing pedestrian and bicyclists safety.

 

[sam_gordon]

The van seemed to be going too fast for a residential neighborhood. Kids do reckless things, but the driver of the van needs to be in control for the situation, which is a residential neighborhood where you expect bikes, dogs and walkers. The kid was oblivious. Van driver going too fast.

I agree with that, which is why I said in my first post I think it's 50/50. However, without doing a deep dive into the video, it's hard to tell how fast the van was going.

The point remains though that the kid, operating a vehicle, blew through the stop sign and turned too wide.

 

[sam_gordon]

That is the point. Someone has to pull over by a driveway so the other car can pass. Keeps speeds way down increasing pedestrian and bicyclists safety.

Pulling over doesn't help though. You'd have to get out of the street. Just pulling over is going to block a lane of traffic.

 

[MillauFr]

They even started putting speed humps on the arterials here to slow cars down.

 

[MillauFr]

Pulling over doesn't help though. You'd have to get out of the street. Just pulling over is going to block a lane of traffic.

You can still get through. It isn't a problem. This is a typical setup on our neighborhood. You can get through. Just not quickly.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.665...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

 

[sam_gordon]

You can still get through. It isn't a problem. This is a typical setup on our neighborhood. You can get through. Just not quickly.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6659391,-122.3184458,3a,75y,177.79h,80.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNkKKcHrTPrcmGPAC49Ifkg!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&w=900&h=600&pitch=9.734965803034939&panoid=NkKKcHrTPrcmGPAC49Ifkg&yaw=177.78544968203366!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

And that's a two lane road. That's my point. It takes at least two lanes in order for two cars to go side by side. It's just in your case, parked cars are taking up the space.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Riding an e-bike or scooter on sidewalks here is against the law. If they have a motor they must be on the street.

Let's face it, kids and e-bikes/scooters are a bad idea. It is rare they follow the rules of the road and when on the sidewalks, they blow past people walking. They should be banned for children under 16.

Yes it does depend on city ordinances just like normal bicycles. Here if there is a bicycle lane the state law requires bikes to use it (normal bikes is what I'm talking about) otherwise it's up to the city to decide what they want.

But just like ordinances exist they can change. To refer back to the 10yr old here (it happened in October) that was killed a nearby city changed their ordinance to have e-bikes and e-scooters to only be allowed on the sidewalks. They were already in the process of reviewing their ordinance due to increasing public safety complaints.

The new ordinance states for that city

• It being unlawful for any person to operate a motorized skateboard, scooter or unicycle on any street, road or highway system. They are allowed to cross them while using the devices.
• Every motorized skateboard, scooter, or unicycle crossing a road, street or highway, regardless if it’s marked or not, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles and pedestrians.
• No person under the age of 18 shall operate or ride a motorized skateboard, scooter or unicycle without wearing a helmet.

The motor aspect is of high contention here in my area for why people want those using them to have driver's licenses as the speed they can get up to. Mopeds require driver's licenses in most states but places haven't quite caught up on the legislation with respects to e-scooters and e-bikes. Cities around me are increasingly paying more specified attention to e-bikes and e-scooter usage especially by minors though.

To be clear most concerns with respects to safety are aimed at minors and yes I agree with your last statement. The sidewalk doesn't absolve risk it just allows for less vehicle to e-bike/scooter incident rate. It still relies on everyone being aware, for everyone to adhere to rules such that they are written. Police enforcement is like other ordinances hard to do until something happens unfortunately. The true answer is agreed that they not be allowed period but in practicality the sidewalk presents the lower overall risk. Here at least. Other areas may have different risks but 100% here if they are going to be out and about not being allowed on the actual street for children is the safer of the two.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is the point. Someone has to pull over by a driveway so the other car can pass. Keeps speeds way down increasing pedestrian and bicyclists safety.

I do see where you're coming from as it presents more of an obstacle for the car who then has to react to that first but would add that with respects to children parked cars such as what you showed in a later on post increase visibility issues. Yes you may have to slow down but because there is so much congestion on the street a driver, even going slow speeds, can't necessarily see a scooter going from one side of the street to the other. And the scooter can't safely see a vehicle coming towards them if they are having to look in between the cars and most especially as is the case with many of these children they just don't look. Even at a crosswalk the visibility issue remains the same.

They even started putting speed humps on the arterials here to slow cars down.

Speed humps are used a decent amount where my alma mater is located at. The other method is to dig a dip into the road. They do have more narrow streets there. They are annoying and hard on vehicle wear and tear most especially the dips in the road method but to the law-abiding citizen do slow the traffic down, to the non-law abiding citizen they just do more damage to their vehicle as they over it too fast (especially the dips in the road).

 

[monsterkitty]

Yes it does depend on city ordinances just like normal bicycles. Here if there is a bicycle lane the state law requires bikes to use it (normal bikes is what I'm talking about) otherwise it's up to the city to decide what they want.

But just like ordinances exist they can change. To refer back to the 10yr old here (it happened in October) that was killed a nearby city changed their ordinance to have e-bikes and e-scooters to only be allowed on the sidewalks. They were already in the process of reviewing their ordinance due to increasing public safety complaints.

The new ordinance states for that city

• It being unlawful for any person to operate a motorized skateboard, scooter or unicycle on any street, road or highway system. They are allowed to cross them while using the devices.
• Every motorized skateboard, scooter, or unicycle crossing a road, street or highway, regardless if it’s marked or not, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles and pedestrians.
• No person under the age of 18 shall operate or ride a motorized skateboard, scooter or unicycle without wearing a helmet.

The motor aspect is of high contention here in my area for why people want those using them to have driver's licenses as the speed they can get up to. Mopeds require driver's licenses in most states but places haven't quite caught up on the legislation with respects to e-scooters and e-bikes. Cities around me are increasingly paying more specified attention to e-bikes and e-scooter usage especially by minors though.

To be clear most concerns with respects to safety are aimed at minors and yes I agree with your last statement. The sidewalk doesn't absolve risk it just allows for less vehicle to e-bike/scooter incident rate. It still relies on everyone being aware, for everyone to adhere to rules such that they are written. Police enforcement is like other ordinances hard to do until something happens unfortunately. The true answer is agreed that they not be allowed period but in practicality the sidewalk presents the lower overall risk. Here at least. Other areas may have different risks but 100% here if they are going to be out and about not being allowed on the actual street for children is the safer of the two.

The law will change again as soon as someone on an e-bike or scooter hits a pedestrian on the sidewalk and either seriously injures them or kills them. I can also see a person on either hitting a dog or getting knocked off their e-bike or scooter when they clothesline themselves on the leash.

 

[DCL58]

We have a half mile loop in our neighborhood. Has nice sidewalks, so that is where I walk everyday. I have seen so many close calls between cars and kids on bikes/scooters/walking. Always the kids fault. They 100% never look before crossing the street, passing a parked car or riding their scooter in traffic - never watching their surroundings.

I have thought of putting out a PSA to neighbors in our FB group to have a chat with their kids about traffic rules. I haven’t - don’t want to be a Karen. Can’t believe no one has been hit or killed in the neighborhood. Sadly, it is probably just a matter of time.