VDH Points Chart is Live!

[DonMacGregor]

This is partly why @RoseGold never wants to own AUL as they are not as Timeshare friendly in Hawaii. Who knows what they would do with VGC as the city.

California is known for being a low tax haven everyone flocks too.....

Well, our property tax is definitely lower, LOL. I just bought 75 more points at Aulani, so I'm obviously clueless.

 

[Bucketfoot]

Sorry if I missed this, but where are people getting $2.73/$2.82 per point occupancy tax from? Was this in one of the posted releases/documents?

I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is something someone thinks they calculated correctly or is it truly a factual number.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry if I missed this, but where are people getting $2.73/$2.82 per point occupancy tax from? Was this in one of the posted releases/documents?

Many have been in contact with their guides who have shared the info.

 

[nlenguyen]

I think their view is that most buyers are too dumb to really add up the cost of that tax in the overall scheme of things likely.

I have a feeling they will have members book a room, go to check in and be told that their stay will be an additional $XXX.XX, they will then say "What?? When did this happen?" Then the resale market will be full of these contracts.

 

[CarolynFH]

I have a feeling they will have members book a room, go to check in and be told that their stay will be an additional $XXX.XX, they will then say "What?? When did this happen?" Then the resale market will be full of these contracts.

If guides are already telling people this now, it will probably be emphasized during the sales process, same as the resale restrictions.

 

[nlenguyen]

If guides are already telling people this now, it will probably be emphasized during the sales process, same as the resale restrictions.

I just think that this is a "nickel and dime" move, same with the parking. I went to Aulani last year and sure I paid maybe a total of $100 for the whole stay, not just one night. I griped for the one day, but this is like a whole other stay with the amount you have to pay in the tax. This will definitely push me again to VGC at 7 months.

 

[Dobermanns]

This is partly why @RoseGold never wants to own AUL as they are not as Timeshare friendly in Hawaii. Who knows what they would do with VGC as the city.

California is known for being a low tax haven everyone flocks to.....

Does Florida have their equivalent of transient occupancy tax?

 

[Huskerpaul]

Sorry if I missed this, but where are people getting $2.73/$2.82 per point occupancy tax from? Was this in one of the posted releases/documents?

I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is something someone thinks they calculated correctly or is it truly a factual number.

I own Worldmark credits and they have a timeshare in Anahiem. It is a tower across the street from the new JW Marriott 201 West Katella and they also charge a TOT. I copied the charges by room type below to give you an idea. In Worldmark the Presidential rooms have nice appointments, including whirlpool baths, but they cost more credits per night. I copied the resorts point chart as well. VDH does not seem that far off. It costs me about $900 MF on 10,000 WM credits.



It is always red week season at this resort . Most WM have three seasons red-white-blue

 

[accm]

I was excited to eventually book a stay at VDH, but not sure if I'll bother with this tax.

If the tax is meant to be 15% of the cost of the stay, I guess $2.73 makes sense as that would mean each point is worth $18.20, which doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[Nursemanit]

Does Florida have their equivalent of transient occupancy tax?

Yes 6% but timeshares are currently exempt by a law ( signed during the Crist administration) - that can of course change.

 

[Ashlotte]

I own Worldmark credits and they have a timeshare in Anahiem. It is a tower across the street from the new JW Marriott 201 West Katella and they also charge a TOT. I copied the charges by room type below to give you an idea. In Worldmark the Presidential rooms have nice appointments, including whirlpool baths, but they cost more credits per night. I copied the resorts point chart as well. VDH does not seem that far off. It costs me about $900 MF on 10,000 WM credits.

View attachment 754342
View attachment 754343
It is always red week season at this resort . Most WM have three seasons red-white-blue

But if you wanted to go to Anaheim inexpensively and stay at WorldMark, they also have Dolphin's Cove. I have a one bedroom booked there this August for $80 per night (Monday Madness cash stay). I could never justify the costs at VDH when I have access to $80 lodging down the street.

 

[ehh]

While I'm still aghast at the idea of $2.73 in TOT on top of the higher costs, I want to look at the points chart in a little bit more detail.

Here's a comparison of VDH Deluxe Studios vs. VGC Deluxe Studios for full week stays:


Standard View (orange) is almost always fewer points per night than VGC, as it should be. There's just a few spots in the calendar where it swings in VGC's favor: a few weeks in April and June, and a few days in September and December.

And Preferred View (blue), despite averaging out to the same points per night as VGC, also has some pretty wild swings and is actually rarely ~equivalent to VGC Studios. Very interesting. I wonder what data they have from VGC or DLH that says these strong deviations from VGC are the right choice.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Re-sale of VDH is going to be appealing down the road. Obviously it will take some time for it to be around long enough to have contracts on the secondary market, but I would imagine it would eventually be sub $200/point, even with the high dues/taxes+parking costs, it would still be an option for people in California. Personally I don't think the California parks require nearly as much time, so a small contract could still work out nicely and for people that live on the West Coast already, most of their stays would already be geared to visits to Disneyland, so the re-sale restriction won't matter so much. A main factor that kept VGC prices high even on re-sale was the scarcity of availability, with VDH we won't have that, which should decrease the value a little bit more. With that being said I think anyone considering VDH will need to focus less on the price per point and more on the annual dues/taxes, because those are going to add up to a significant amount of money over the life of the contract. For people disappointed in not getting in on VGC recently with the prices of re-sale dropping, I still think within the year, we could see prices come down again on the re-sale market and re-visit their recent lows. Until we start seeing Disney exercise ROFR again, and the freshness of the VDH news goes away, the uncertainty of the economy could certainly keep prices low for awhile.

Sub-$200? I think it will be sub-$120. It’s a MUCH larger resort than VGC and the DVC resorts with huge annual fees (VB, HHI) have terrible resale values.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

But then how can they charge that at VDH and not VGC when it’s a city of Anaheim tax?

that is the question everyone is currently puzzled on

Perhaps the level of tax is grandfathered in? I can't otherwise think of why it would vary.

Its a new build. Plenty of cities have different rates and fees based on when something was built, where it was built, how it was built, ect.

It can easily be "Disney you want a new hotel or timeshare? Okay then you need to have them cough up some money"

The Anaheim code that discusses TOT specifically calls out that timeshare operators can negotiate a lower rate than 15% with the city. Clearly IMO Disney did this with VGC but not with VDH. Who can say why. I imagine leverage had something to do with it.

The 15% rate dates to 1996, so no grandfathering.

It works out to Disney (or the city, I won’t pretend to know whose setting the rates) considering a point to be worth $18.20, which if you assume a cost of capital of 3%, is almost bang on to what you’d get for buy in plus dues.

 

[Jgc014]

While I'm still aghast at the idea of $2.73 in TOT on top of the higher costs, I want to look at the points chart in a little bit more detail.

Here's a comparison of VDH Deluxe Studios vs. VGC Deluxe Studios for full week stays:
View attachment 754350

Standard View (orange) is almost always fewer points per night than VGC, as it should be. There's just a few spots in the calendar where it swings in VGC's favor: a few weeks in April and June, and a few days in September and December.

And Preferred View (blue), despite averaging out to the same points per night as VGC, also has some pretty wild swings and is actually rarely ~equivalent to VGC Studios. Very interesting. I wonder what data they have from VGC or DLH that says these strong deviations from VGC are the right choice.

Thanks for this. This is interesting.

And for full transparency I don’t have a ton of historical knowledge on DL, and its crowds, but I think a lot of these new seasons and swings from VGC point charts make sense.

We were there at the end of August, and the parks were dead (although I’m sure the 100+ degree weather also contributed), but we still were paying the mid-summer point chart rates when the parks are much busier. I was kind of annoyed by this, but in actuality, I’m sure it was the big reason I was able to get VGC with SSR points at under 7 months, so it worked out for me - the lower demand with the higher point chart. That being said, I think lower points 8/15 onward make a lot of sense here (as well as some of the other swings).

 

[lilsonicfan]

A 3 night weekend stay at the end of August in a 1BR would cost 113 points and $308 in additional taxes…..that’s sky high!

 

[scgustin]

Here's the chart that shows transient tax nightly rates for 2023:

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.di...eyland-hotel/VDH_2023_Estimated_TOT_Chart.pdf

 

[Jgc014]

A 3 night weekend stay at the end of August in a 1BR would cost 113 points and $308 in additional taxes…..that’s sky high!

VGC would be 156 points minimum for the same time period in a 1 bedroom, which doesn’t make that seem terrible (although, VGC is the superior property in my mind).

 

[nalabear]

Thanks for this. This is interesting.

And for full transparency I don’t have a ton of historical knowledge on DL, and its crowds, but I think a lot of these new seasons and swings from VGC point charts make sense.

We were there at the end of August, and the parks were dead (although I’m sure the 100+ degree weather also contributed), but we still were paying the mid-summer point chart rates when the parks are much busier. I was kind of annoyed by this, but in actuality, I’m sure it was the big reason I was able to get VGC with SSR points at under 7 months, so it worked out for me - the lower demand with the higher point chart. That being said, I think lower points 8/15 onward make a lot of sense here (as well as some of the other swings).

Lots of locals head out of town end of August for last summer hurrah. So lots of local traffic is missing.

 

[lilsonicfan]

VGC would be 156 points minimum for the same time period in a 1 bedroom, which doesn’t make that seem terrible (although, VGC is the superior property in my mind).

Good point.

But okay I have two weekends in mind, one is in late Jan and one is Labour Day weekend. At VGC there’s a decent chance both of these are in the first season, so 111 points. At VDH, the Jan weekend is 104 pts plus $280ish TOT. The Sep weekend is 113 pts plus $300ish TOT. I just don’t get it. I realize I may never get to stay at VGV since I won’t own there.