Value of a point spent at a resort

Rich,

I'm so glad you gave us that last option. The whole time I was reading your post I kept thinking,"Boy, this guy has way too much time on his hands". :D :D :D


Having said that I want you to know I usually read you posts and admire your ability to put into words what you're thinking.
 
The important thing to remember is that you need to make your purchase based upon what is there wehn you buy.

If they never built any more properties I would still be happy.

We bought into BWV. Any other options that are given to us on top of that is a bonus.

If you think some require too many point, DON'T STAY THERE.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Lisa, what happened?? You had an elequent, well supported dissertation that was just so much more clear and concise that I ever could have written.....now you edited that all away, why?
I am afraid that you posted it, looked at it and realized that you agreed with me, so you got rid of it....

[/quote]

Actually, I've agreed with you before (and I do agree with you on this one, for the record). I just posted before I read the thread carefully and realized I was being completely redundant so I deleted it (after I spent too much time on it in the first place). Maybe it was dumb, but sometimes I get caught up in the heat of the moment and then realize I've spent too much energy trying to say the same thing as others have just in a different way. I haven't even read the other 2 pages of the thread yet but after I do if you still need my help defending myself I'll put my argument back together for you :)

Lisa

"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
 
Let's see if I can reconstruct my argument, being a lot more succinct this time.

It occurs to me that there is a lot of "your argument is bad because it is your OPINION" type rhetoric going on, and a few people who are becoming offended because it seems as though their favorite resort (whatever it may be) is being called inferior to another. That is not my intent in writing this argument at all and I am going to be trying to stay away from using words like "better" in regard to any of the resorts.

Anyway, here are the facts as I see them.

BWV is in a central location on WDW property (pull out a site map if you think this is my "opinion" and see what is right in the middle of the map.) From the BWV you can walk to 2 out of the 4 major parks. The BWV is also right on top of Disney's second most popular nighttime spot.

OKW is not in the center of WDW property. From OKW you can walk to 0 of the 4 major parks. Although there is no nice transportation to any of the major parks, there is the boat to Downtown Disney which falls somewhere between the nighttime activities at the BW and the daytime fun of a major park.

Rooms are smaller at BWV, yet more expensive, but people are willing to tolerate that because of the benefits of staying at BWV. OKW doesn't have most of those benefits, but the rooms are larger and the points per night cost is lower. For this reason the two choices seem fairly balanced... one costs more but offers more to make up for it.

Now Disney has added in the VWL. It is close to one major park and has interesting (meaning non-bus, which seems to be the lowest common denominator at WDW in regard to transportation) to that park, ie the boat. However, because of the way Disney operates that transportation, it makes it more difficult to get to and from the MK than it is to get to and from MGM or Epcot when you are staying at the BWV. Although the boat is nice, we have always had to wait forever for one. Additionally the boat that runs to the contemporary is seasonal and only runs during the high season. That doesn't buy me much if I want to eat at a monorail resort during January. Additionally, the boat between WL and MK doesn't run all the time (E-ride nights are an example of when I'd be MOST likely to want to use the boat and it doesn't run). Also, there is are no extraordinary nighttime activities at VWL, nor are the rooms larger than at BWV.

VWL costs even MORE than BWV, but does it really offer more (or even as much?) This argument is meant to be purely quantitative and not really qualitative (ie I am not making a judgement about which is "better" and whether being near Epcot is better than being near MK or vice versa. For the purpose of my argument I am treating the 4 major parks as somewhat equal since I'm sure that we all have our favorites for various reasons.)

The reason this concerns Rich, myself and others is that those of us who bought into the older dvc resorts, who bought in because we love the flexibility of DVC, are seeing Disney do things that will severely limit our flexibility. If it costs so much more to stay at a resort other than our home resort that doesn't exactly encourage us to try out the other resorts (although I personally can't wait to give VWL a try, I suspect that it will be a one time shot unless I can't get anything else).

Additionally, we are afraid it would make our own resorts more difficult to get into after the 7 month window opens up. I know it's best to plan at the 11 month window (and I do that most of the time myself). But there are the occasional trips that are semi-last minute and if someone who owns BCV points can stay right next door at the BWV for significantly less points, why would they stay at their home resort?

Disney seems to really be on its way toward skewing things and making it more difficult for all members to enjoy the flexibility that DVC offers. I hope that this is not a trend in raising points per night, but rather that "preferred" view points become the norm across the board.

I firmly believe that points schedules should not be related to constructions costs and inflation and all that kind of nonsense... that's why we bought into DVC in the first place... to avoid all that. If it costs that much more to build a resort then it should be reflected in the cost to buy into that resort, period. That is most definately my opinion, but I believe it is an informed one.

Lisa

"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
 

Thank you....but you left out the mouses...I really like an argument with a mouse.

I thnk your quantification of the value recieved is very good. I relied on location, country mouse and city mouse, but you go farther and quantify what those qualities entail...you even convinced me more!!

The part that worries me is just what you said also....the competition at the seven month window is going to be fierce. I think that we are going to be forced to stay at our home resorts more and more often...I don't mind, I do anyway, but the short notice trip or changed plans are going to get harder and harder to deal with.

So now that DOC chimed in, I guess almost everyone agrees with my stolen theory.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
 
No Rich, you blew it, your OKW points are not worth the same as BWV, get over it.

alcheshire_cat.gif
 
Ok, at the risk of having rich accuse me of littering again...

I hate WL...it is too dark.....my kids love it. So we are staying at WLV this trip to try it out.

I love the locaiton of BWV, but HATE the walk to the rooms and being so far from our car (ok, so we use valet, but we have to use it a LOT because we forget and leave things in our car). I don't like the restaurant choices at BWV, either...but we stay there every trip because it is neat to walk to Epcot in the evening....

I can't wait for BCV--I love the pinks and pastels and hope it is closer to the parking lot.

Susan (who is so sick of black ice)in Nebraska
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Rich,

Help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something, but why all the angst? If I bought at the location at which I prefer to stay, which is what you recommend to new buyers, then why worry about the point costs of WVL? If I own at OKW and prefer to stay at OKW, why should I worry about those suffering at WVL? What should I be worried about? Are you postulating that the point values at WVL and, eventually BCV will have an effect on the point values for stays at the other resorts? Unless I'm missing something, I understand this argument if there was equal availabilty at all resorts for new buyers. But, for those of us that already own, why care?
 
If you read my most recent post, Lisa's post and several other of my posts, I talk very specifically about the problems I foresee it causing.

The problem has many facets, one of which is when someone buys at BCV, not all, but some....I don't feel like making that qualification AGAIN, so when some buy at BCV because Disney convinced them that resales were silly, and they see that they get a high value for their points when they spend them at BWV rather then BCV, the demand for BWV will go up higher then it already is at the seven month window.

See my other posts, and Lisa has some good reasoning also, for further reasons that I see it as a bad thing.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
 
Are people aware that REDHIT who posted above here a few posts is the banned CalybayBWV?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
 
dmadman,

I think rich has completely gone off the deep end over his regret resulting from owning too many OKW (the worst onsite DVC resort)points, and not having the financing to do something about it.

I suggest we all contribute a dollar per year in the "Get Rich Points Weston-Bo Push Coalition"!

alcheshire_cat.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, for those of us that already own, why care? [/quote]

I generally stay at the BWV because I love it there. We had to try out OKW a couple of times because there was nothing available at the BWV and I have come to the conclusion that if we treated my parents to a trip, they would enjoy OKW more than BWV. On our upcoming trip in march, some dear friends are staying at the WL and we are taking the opportunity to try out VWL and stay close to them. If we were just going on our own, we would choose BWV hands down, but there are circumstances that make us really appreciate the flexibility that DVC offers.

That flexibility is one of the things that really sold us on DVC. The other thing that sold us is Disney quality and stability. We know they are not going to pack up and disappear in the night with our money, we know that when they sign a contract they will be accountable for it.

If the trend of raising point costs per night for DVC rooms when it is not reflected in the cash price for those very rooms continues, it threatens both the flexibility that we were sold on, and the stability that we have come to expect from Disney. As I said before, the whole points system is meant to shield our vacations as much as possible from things like rising cost of living, inflation etc.

I have no problem with Disney raising their prices for those who buy in and if a new resort was built that I loved, I wouldn't have a problem with paying a price that the market could bear for those points. IMO that is an entirely different matter from skewing the points charts in the way Disney seems to be doing. Maybe this level of points will be the "norm" across the board, in which case I would be okay with it... but I guess only time will tell.

As to why any of us should care, I don't know about you, but we spent a lot of hard earned money buying into DVC and I care very much about the decisions they make that affect me and my future enjoyment of the program.

Lisa

"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
 
Anyone who saw the movie The Right Stuff may remember the scene where John Glen begins chastising all the other astronauts for their after hours activities. Alan Sheppard shouts at Glen telling him he is way out of hand and an argument ensues, in the midst of which Gus Grissom shouts out that the problem isn't women, "It's monkeys." Everybody stares at him for a few moments incredulous, lightbulbs go off, and one by one the other astronauts pick up the theme, "What Gus is saying here..." And the discussion turns to their being considered monkeys instead of pilots.

So taking a few copyright liberties-- "What Rich is saying here..."

Is that the problem is really not VWL, or at most that is only a minor one. It's BCV. Its going to have the same size rooms as BWV. It's going to be located in the same area as BWV. In fact, it will not quite be as ideally located as BWV--it will not be on the lake, it will not have its main pool right near the units, it will not be actually connected to to its sister hotel resort. People who will be buying BCV will for the most part be the same kind of people who wanted to buy at BWV. They will have within walking distance all the same things that owners of BWV have. Now what happens if the points needed for BCV are 10 to 15% more per night than what is needed for BWV. Those BCV owners will look at BWV as a less inexpensive option that gives them exactly the same things they would get at BCV. In other words, why not try to grab BWV exactly at the 7 month window and get everything you want as if you stayed at BCV but also get an extra night on the same number of total points.

Moreover, those 150 point packages aren't going to go far at BCV if points are higher than BWV. Buyers at BCV will see even a greater bargain if they just go with OKW for a stay; e.g, for the same number of points they will likely be able to get three extra nights at OKW in comparison to BCV. OKW will become a super bargain for owners of BCV raising OKW demand at 7 months.

Meanwhile, with its points so high, owners at BWV aren't going to be chomping at the bit to stay at BCV--why pay more points for the same location as your home resort BWV. And owners at VWL and OKW who want to take that once in a while excursion to the activity center of an Epcot Resort certainly aren't going to choose BCV over BWV for that stay--they will just try for BWV at 7 months. Even owners at HH and VB who want to stay on site aren't going to perceive that there is a difference between staying at BCV and BWV and thus if they are looking for an Epcot resort they will also try for BWV. In other words, if you think it is tough to get BWV now with a 7 month window wait until BCV shows up at higher points.


=
 
Exactly, and not to stir up anyone in particular, but I hope people that bought at VB and HH plan to spend their vacations at VB and HH.

I do think VWL will also be a factor in this, but not as serious and black and white as BCV. That is also why every single one of my posts have included the word "trend". I expect BCV to cause us all a problem.

The eleven month window is going to be ever more important as we move forward.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
 
Call me Tom Hanks or a monkey or even a spawn of Darwins theory of evoloution, but methinks the BWV owners have stuck a pot o gold!

alcheshire_cat.gif
 
Come on , people. We don't need that nonsense going on here. People should be grown up enough to have a civil discussion.

To susan@htcnet.com---Wow!! I thought I was the only person in the world who didn't particularly care for VWL!!!! It's beautifully done--as all the Disney resorts are--but I agree, it is too dark for my tastes. That's why it is so nice that we have such a diversity of styles to choose from--something for everyone.

And just for the record, I think Rich and Lisa explained the situation perfectly.

Phil and Mary Jo
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WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

 
Phil and Mary Jo,
I think one of the reasons WL is too dark for me is that we go in Jan-Feb and we want it to be sunny.

If we went in the summer, we might prefer it to be dark and cool.

I also have a big problem with some of the color schemes of the resorts and wonder what the deal is...the colors of the cast building across from dd are really weird. Is there some kind of psycology at work here?
Susan in Nebraska


:eek: :eek: :eek: (and I love these little guys)
 
DVC is usually such a happy place. Let's play nice Red.

Disneydiane
 
Richyams - you are right on the money.

This other poster is completely out of line.

We are all DVC Members - we should care about DVC as a whole.
 
Everyone, Remember there are to be no personal attacks on individuals on these boards. Personal attacking post will be deleted.

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