Value of a point spent at a resort

[Richyams]

This has nothing to do with the home resort of a point.


My theory:

When BWV opened up with its higher point schedule then OKW for the substantially smaller rooms, it is pretty easy to see that the location of the BWV is valuable. The entire Boardwalk area and the proximity to EPCOT are VERY serious pluses...now a point spent at OKW has roughly the same value as a point spent at BWV....obviously, these are judgement calls, but real estate has certain things that are inherantly valuable....size of the unit and location being to very basic measures. Larger size makes up for less desireable location....smaller units are made up for with more desireable location.

So it is very easy to support the idea that a point spent at OKW and a point spent at BWV have roughly the same value.

Now we get to VWL, VWL has the same small units as BWV. SInce VWL has NO standard view, the points for the average room are actually higher at VWL then BWV, only marginilly, but still at least the same. You also get a substantially less valuable location....some may argue which is more desirable, but city prices always command more then rural prices....now you have the same sized units as BWV with a less valuable location for the same or more points per night....ergo, a point spent at VWL returns less value then a point spent at either OKW or BWV.

If the trend continies and BCV has the same small units, it has the same location, and has even higher points per night, then you are getting the same thing as BWV for more points....again, a point spent at BCV returns less value then a point spent at BWV or OKW.....is BCV a more upscale resort then BWV??? I don't know, I never thought so until I heard that said here.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[Werner Weiss]

The Villas at Wilderness Lodge are part of the terrific Wilderness Lodge Resort complex, and it's the only DVC resort with a desirable Magic Kingdom location.

There's boat service to the Magic Kingdom, Fort Wilderness, and Disney's Contemporary. The Magic Kingdom is the number one park at WDW. The amenities of Fort Wilderness (horseback riding, Hoop-di-Doo Revue, River Country, and more) are easily accessible. And the restaurants of the Contemporary (including the California Grill) and of the Wilderness Lodge are among the best at WDW. Also, it's a lot more fun to rent a boat on Bay Lake and Seven Seas Lagoon than on Boardwalk's Crescent Lake.

Some people may prefer the BWV locations, others may prefer the VWL location. I don't think that one is clearly superior or inferior to the other.

I think it's great that the number of points needed for accomodations are the same. It will make planning and point budgeting much easier. At the seven-month window, I'll try to get whichever is available. (Our points are at OKW.)

DVC members are now lucky to have three resorts at WDW available to them. Each has a different feeling, each has advantages, and each is wonderful in its own way.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland, featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

 

[wdwnut]

hi rich: i hadn't heard anything about the upcoming bcv points being more than bwv or vwl. is there something that indicates this to be the case? i think it's kind of nice to have such variety in all 3 of the current dvc locations at wdw. i'll really have to try okw and see if the larger units make up for the location. it will be kind of hard to talk the teens into this, but i'll manage it one of these years. thanks for such an interesting poll. dee

 

[LooHoo]

I hate to reiterate what I already posted but here goes. Totally disagree with your thesis. BWV had in place the exact same point structure as WLV has now. People complained and now they have two different view selections with point values. Too many people boght in with the intention of using the lower point calculation and with only 20% of the rooms at the lower level it is not a good thing. DVC did not want to make the same mistake twice again at the Lodge location. Straight point usage across the board. The san\me amount of points as BWV was initially for all rooms now called perferred view. Some have argued that it costs more to stay at the Boardwalk as a hotel than the Wilderness Lodge, but your comparing WDW resorts and not DVC resorts. Boardwalk as a hotel charges more per night than Wilderness Lodge because their rooms are larger. Not because it offers more ammenities. Both are delux hotels one has larger rooms hence the price difference. Now the DVC resorts at these locations are both the same size units so they are not valued any differently. Location is another argumant that you have used in your equation. You think that BWV has a better location. Purely subjective and really unsubstantiated when you look at the theme park attendance records. Magic Kingdom still beats Epcot by 5% every year and MGM by about 7%. Therefor, most would benefit by being next to the most popular theme park where they tend to visit the most. Not to mention that Wilderness Lodge has been the most popular resort over the past 2 years as opposed to BWV. The point structure is exactly the same for WLV has not increased and it offers every bit of value per point that BWV offers. To me it because it is a boat ride away from the Magic Kingdom it is priceless. Sales are so fast there that many people are proving my point for me. The location is one of the most popular in all of WDW.

 

[drusba]

I agree that VWL is a very nice resort. But, this is a valid question--is it actually the same as BWV or is one a little better because of location or something else. I, for one, was disappointed that VWL came in at points equal to BWV preferred. Conceptually, it is not anywhere near as ideally located as BWV. When the point structure came out, I thought the thing to do was ask the true expert, Disney itself, which resort it believes is better. Of course, there is no person to talk to but there is one measure of how Disney views its resorts--price structure. For example, GF is more expensive than all others because Disney has long believed that is its No. 1 premier resort. When you ask , "What does Disney charge for rentals at these resorts?" the answer is that at Boardwalk it charges $15 more per night for studios and 1BR, and significantly more than that for a 2BR, than it charges at VWL. As Disney's opinion is that VWL should cost less, I will agree and assert therefore that the points should be less too.

 

[jennybobenny]

I totally agree with your theory Rich.

Right now we're trying to decide whether to stay at BWV for the location or OKW for the size. VWL would only enter into the picture for it's 'theme' but unfortunately 'theme' comes in a distant third when compared to location and size. Yes, VWL has a great location but it doesn't really compare to BWV. BWV is a destination in itself. Sure VWL is convenient to MK, but BWV is even more convenient (within walking distance) to both MGM and Epcot. For us the decision is between OKW and BWV. Don't get me wrong - I love the Wilderness Lodge and am awestruck every time I walk into the lobby. I'm just not willing to spend the same amount of points to stay there as I would spend to stay at BWV.

I'm hoping the points for BCV will be the same as
VWL and BWV. I certainly wouldn't spend more points to stay across the lake, unless of course the villas were the same size as OKW but we know that's not going to happen.

<font face="Class Garmnd BT"><font color="ff69b4"><big>Jennybºoº benny</big></font>
<font color="9400d3">~~DVC Member~~
Onsite: Poly '76, Contemp '98, BWV '99, CBR '00, BWV '00, CBR '01
Offsite: '74 '80 '82 '88
Next trip: AKL/BWV~June '01, BWV~Nov '01</font>
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[TampaDisneyFreaks]

I think comparing VWL and BWV is comparing apples and oranges. The accommodations and points are same, but everything else is different, especially in the intrinsic value of the resort to each person. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, and they will differ based on each individual person, especially regarding location. I did vote that I agree and am worried. That is because I am not worried about BWV point values vs. VWL. The resorts and locations are too different to accurately compare. What worries me is BWV compared to BCV. BWV and BCV should be essentially the same resort (location, amenities, etc.). If BCV and BWV are the same points wise, then there is no problem. If BCV is more points, then there is a problem and your point is totally validated. Of course, if that happens, Disney will more than likely just say higher contruction costs (and also raise price per point).

 

[LooHoo]

Drusba,
I think what we need to take into account when comparing that pricing is that Disney is pricing the property in proportion to the resort it has to compete with for A DVC resort. In other words WLV competes with Wilderness Lodge and offers somewhat of an incentive to pull from that market. BWV competes with the Boardwalk and they pull from that market. I think they adjust the price for the individual market it competes with rather than DVC VS. DVC. Did that make sense or was it clear as mud? Anyway to pull from Wilderness Lodge from their paying guests you must offer a little incentive as compared to Wilderness Lodge not BWV.

 

[Richyams]

Werner

I really believe that the Boardwalk area itself is something that VWL doesn't have anything that compares. I agree completely that it is a great resort with a great location and great amenities. I think BWV, with the boardwalk area and the three minote walk to EPCOT makes the location a notch higher.

Just as the argument between the city mouse and the country mouse, the city mouse has a smaller house that is actually worth more money, the country mouse(VWL) has a larger house, VWL are not larger, worth less money. Reasonable people can certainly disagree on which is more attractive, but the city mouse(BWV) clearly has something worth more money.

I just LOVE mouse arguments!!!!

I think that these reasons support my theory.

Werner, I think you know that I always value your opinion, thanks.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[Dumbo]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into Rich's thread, but here is something that always puzzled me. Maybe you guys can help me understand this.

When VWL opened they raised the price per point to $72. per point. I can understand the reasoning for the price increase for a newly built resort considering riseing construction costs, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if Beach Club Villas starts selling at $80 per point.

But why do they raise the price equally at the other resorts? My goodness, Hilton Head and Vero Beach are over 5 years old. Why are they selling these resorts for $72 per point?

Dumbo

 

[Dean]

It's no secret that I'm an OKW fan, but love the BW also. When WLV was announced, my wife and I said we must add on there. Well the points came in the same as BW preferred view (overal 20% more than BW) and the price went up twice in 6 months to $72 pp. So guess what, no more plans to add on. The WL is our favorite hotel, I just don't see the value of WLV compared to the alternatives. Sure it will be better for some than any other location but this is more about the overal perceptions of the group of people spending the money.

FTR, BCV will be more points per room that BWV, I guarantee it and would be willing to put money on it. Fairfiled has used this technique very effectively of devaluing the old points by raising the points required at the new and most desirable resorts. BC is slightly more upscale that BW and even if they had been built at the same time, BC would have been slightly higher points.

Dean

 

[Bennet]

OK I am easily confused:

Richyams DIS Veteran Wrote
---------------------------------------
...So it is very easy to support the idea that a point spent at OKW and a point spent at BWV have roughly the same value.

And he also wrote:

Personally, I would buy OKW at $75 before I would buy BWV at $55.

BWV units are too small, the points are too high per night, its too loud at night, and the dues are too high.
----------------------------------

Roughly the same value or 75/55?

In the immortal words of the Budweiser guys: Whaaaatsuuuuuppppp?

BD


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**UPDATED AGAIN! 2/10/01** MORE Disney silliness: Buzz's Spin, Parks, <font size="4"> Classic Toy Story Parade</font> and
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[MN_DizNut]

From the perspective of one who has been anxiously anticipating the opening of the VWL in order to finally officially "join the club", the fact that WL has nothing like the boardwalk area is exactly what makes it a MUCH more desirable location for me. I love the busyness of the parks, downtown Disney, etc, but most of all I love being able to get away from the bustle and relax when I'm back at my room.

VWL could be much more expensive (in terms of points per night) and for me, would still be a far greater value

 

[Richyams]

That is MY personal preference, MN_DIZNUT has a different preference....MN, have you seen OKW units? Talk about serene and comfortable...

But we are back to the city mouse and the country mouse, while the country mouse prefers the country, the city mouse has more valuable property.....without the rooms being larger or some other compensating factor, the inherant value of a room at VWL is worth less then a night in BWV yet costs the same number of points.

Personel opinons and preferences don't make the Park Avenue address worth less then the Spitoon Falls, Nebraska adress.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[eva]

Even though we are spending 2 nights at VWL this May I do agree with Rich. We are actually staying there just to give them a try and thought this would be a great time to do that since it is only for 2 nights. If it were for a longer period of time we would be at OKW or BWV. I do think that BWV has the best location. It is right on the Boardwalk right in between the Studios and EPCOT. It has nearly unlimited dining options without even having to use WDW tranportation. And we love going to Jellyrolls and the Atlantic Dance Club. We love OKW for the actual units and peaceful atmosphere. I really don't think that VWL will have that same atmosphere. We have eaten at Artist Point a number of times and the pool at WL is usually full and quite active. We just thought that we would give them a try for a short trip and now would be a good time while they are brand new. Hopefully they will be in pristine condition. Actually, we are not planning on buying any passes this trip and I thought that VWL is removed from the parks enough that I might not miss them too much. Well, when we get back we will report whether we think that VWL is really worth a preferred view at BWV.

 

[dianeschlicht]

The only thing I see coming out of this thread is that we are each happy with where we bought, because that is where we prefer to be. Those of us who have OKW like the serenity and size. BWV people like the hustle, bustle and walk to the parks, VWL people like the embiance of the lodge. In my opinion, that makes all points equal, since we chose to be where we are.ºoººoº

Disneydiane

 

[Lesley]

As an owner at BWV who loves the theming at VWL, I don't know that I'll actually ever stay there...my reasoning being that I can use substantially less points by reserving a standard view at my 11mo window (and I'm fairly sure almost all of my trips will be planned more than 11mo in advance) and get the wonderful location right between Epcot and MGM. If I'm looking to be away from it all (which is not really my style, but who knows) I'll probably try to book at OKW and save even more points and have larger accomodations.

At one point I really thought I'd want to add on at VWL or BCV, but if my points aren't going to go as far and/or not get me the location I want I think I may very well look into a BWV resale when I'm ready to add on.....


Lesley


1979 Contemporary
1992 Off-site
1994 Carribean Beach
1999 Fort Wilderness and Coronado Springs
2000 Polynesian and Old Key West
2002 Boardwalk Villas

 

[Lisa F]

I have to say that I heartily disagree with this statement (having stayed in both the BW Inn and the BC). The guest rooms are identical (except for decor) and the lobbies are comperable in scale (ie no huge atrium like in the GF) and finish. There was nothing about the BC that impressed me over the BW Inn (well, the pool is nicer, but dvc members can pool hop so that's kind of a moot point, at least for now). The cost for the rooms in the two resorts are exactly the same.

Lisa

[This message was edited by Lisa F on 02-15-01 at 08:13 AM.]

 

[RoutemanDan]

Lisa said
"The cost for the rooms in the two resorts are exactly the same. "
______________________________________

Actually BW is $10.00 - $40.00 higher depending on season and type of room.

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/routemandan/NJdvcers.gif>

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/routemandan/Danears.gif>

 

[Richyams]

Lisa, what happened?? You had an elequent, well supported dissertation that was just so much more clear and concise that I ever could have written.....now you edited that all away, why?

I am afraid that you posted it, looked at it and realized that you agreed with me, so you got rid of it....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?