Vaccine- Autism link proven to be a FRAUD!

[Scurvy]

Back to the OP, I really don't think its fair to say that because of one person lying to make money, the "Link of Vaccinations to Autism is FRAUD". Apparently THAT study is fraud, but that doesn't make the the whole idea that autism is linked to vaccinations false.

That's true, only that one study was proven to be fraudulent. I'm aware of a few studies which concluded there was not a link between Autism and vaccines. Have there been any other studies (besides the fraudulent one) that showed that there is a link between the two?

 

[NotUrsula]

But the Wakefield study is the ONLY study that found a positive link. There have been several other rigorous peer-reviewed studies done since that one was originally published, and all of them found NO supporting evidence for the theory.

Therefore, the only LINK in existence is a fraud.

PS: Temple Grandin and other folks like her who are high-functioning residents on the spectrum almost universally do not want a "cure" for the way their brains are wired. My DS has Asperger's, and I don't think he needs any kind of "cure". What he needs is an atmosphere of understanding and training to allow him to make the most of his gifts and get along better with others. There are enormous numbers of high-functioning autistics doing just fine in the wider world -- and they all have one thing in common: they have learned to fake neurotypical behavior well enough to ease the discomfort with difference that most neurotypical people have. What that means is that awareness and tolerance is needed on both sides, and now that we've taken the condition out of the closet, we are moving much closer to that.

 

[Hannathy]

Back to the OP, I really don't think its fair to say that because of one person lying to make money, the "Link of Vaccinations to Autism is FRAUD". Apparently THAT study is fraud, but that doesn't make the the whole idea that autism is linked to vaccinations false.

There has not been a study done yet that has shown any correlation and many have been done, so Scientifically which is the only verifiable way there is no link.

After all the studies and money poured into this if there was any correlation then it would have surfaced by now.

This is a Scientific principle it can not be based on emotions and that is what people with Autistic children base it on.

 

[SusanWasHere]

I can't tell from your post who you find scary - the parents who do vaccinate, or the ones who don't. One paragraph makes me think you feel one way, then the next paragraph seems to say the opposite. So... who is scary?

I find the judmental tone of so many of the people on here that blast everyone else and their opinion scary. I read through each and every post and really couldn't believe how people were being. I don't care if people vaccinate or not - it's every parents right to decide what is best for their kid. But to blast one study (which I am not saying I agreed with) and go on and on about how there was no way a vaccine caused someone's autism isn't right. They were not where those mothers were seeing what they were seeing.

 

[Mom of 3 Princesses]

I really don't care what parents do as far as vaccinating their kids. What I do care about is that they keep their kids away from mine! That goes for school, camp, extra curriculur activities, etc.

Amen!

 

[SusanWasHere]

What an odd thought. So in your opinion, only those who have a child with Autism should study the disease?

Are the moms on here blasting people that make their own choices about vaccinating or not actually studying autism? Are the people without autistic kids saying people need to get over vaccines studying it? Are the people blasting Jenny McCarthy (for all the wrong reasons) studying it? Um no. I'm saying people w/o an autistic child shouldn't say anything about it bc their kid is fine. Or say a mom that thinks it did cause her child's autism is wrong. Again - unless it was your child that was fine on Monday, had the shots on Tuesday, and was forever changed on Wednesday - you shouldn't judge.

 

[SusanWasHere]

That's true, only that one study was proven to be fraudulent. I'm aware of a few studies which concluded there was not a link between Autism and vaccines. Have there been any other studies (besides the fraudulent one) that showed that there is a link between the two?

There will never be anything that shows this. There would be such an uproar and chaos that I honestly believe it will never be said. Look at all the movies that show huge cover ups and murders bc someone could expose a pharmaceutical company or water company, etc. as harming kids and other people. It's big business and way too much money. If it ever did come out - the backlash would be endless and I truly believe that if there has been proof - it has been covered up. And I am not the first person to say that.

 

[Scurvy]

Are the moms on here blasting people that make their own choices about vaccinating or not actually studying autism? Are the people without autistic kids saying people need to get over vaccines studying it? Are the people blasting Jenny McCarthy (for all the wrong reasons) studying it? Um no. I'm saying people w/o an autistic child shouldn't say anything about it bc their kid is fine. Or say a mom that thinks it did cause her child's autism is wrong. Again - unless it was your child that was fine on Monday, had the shots on Tuesday, and was forever changed on Wednesday - you shouldn't judge.

I certainly hope that everyone who is making the decision to vaccinate (or not) is studying the available information about Autism before making their decision, instead of making their decision based on the emotional reactions of parents who are desperate to find something that will explain their childrens' condition. You don't need to have an emotional investment in a subject in order to be educated about it. In some cases, it's easier to look at the facts of the matter when you don't have a personal connection to it. Facts are facts, regardless of the emotion involved, but sometimes emotion can make it difficult to see those facts.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

I think the problem with vaccines is there just WAY TOO MANY! Why does my daughter need Hep B vaccine to get into school? Now they are trying to shoot her up with Hep A!
With my next child I am going to do my research before I just do what society tells me to. After DD has her MMR vaccine a week later she came down with a fever close to 104 (Fri, Sat, and Sun) and was lethargic the week after. She just wasn't herself at all. When the time came for her booster I knew I didn't want her getting it. Someone on here told me about a law that was implemented here in Jersey after a little girl died from complications due to her MMR booster. The law stated that we can opt for a titers test as proof of immunity for MMR. I started researching this to find out that 95% of children are fully immune to MMR after the first dose! 95%!!!!! 95% of our children are receiving vaccines unnecessarily!! No doctor ever told me I could opt for this instead of getting her vaccinated AGAIN. And then when I approached my ped about it I had to sign a waiver that I was putting my child's life in danger by not re vaccinating her with MMR and Hep A.
Taking the titer's test was the best thing I ever did, she was immune to all three and they also checked her for chicken pox which she was also immune to.
With my next baby I will research more on vaccines. We don't know the full facts IMHO about vaccines and autism, how do we know that there's a different chemistry in Joey's body that would cause him to react to MMR vaccine with autism, however Johnny doesn't have that make up? I am just saying, do your research, know your rights.

 

[Hannathy]

There will never be anything that shows this. There would be such an uproar and chaos that I honestly believe it will never be said. Look at all the movies that show huge cover ups and murders bc someone could expose a pharmaceutical company or water company, etc. as harming kids and other people. It's big business and way too much money. If it ever did come out - the backlash would be endless and I truly believe that if there has been proof - it has been covered up. And I am not the first person to say that.

And your Scientific degree is in? When you have your Immunology degree, or your Biological research degree, or your pharmacy degree or the list goes on Please stick to teaching which is what I believe your training is in.


PS there is no money in vaccines, which is why all the companies are getting out of the business.

 

[SusanWasHere]

I think the problem with vaccines is there just WAY TOO MANY! Why does my daughter need Hep B vaccine to get into school? Now they are trying to shoot her up with Hep A!
With my next child I am going to do my research before I just do what society tells me to. After DD has her MMR vaccine a week later she came down with a fever close to 104 (Fri, Sat, and Sun) and was lethargic the week after. She just wasn't herself at all. When the time came for her booster I knew I didn't want her getting it. Someone on here told me about a law that was implemented here in Jersey after a little girl died from complications due to her MMR booster. The law stated that we can opt for a titers test as proof of immunity for MMR. I started researching this to find out that 95% of children are fully immune to MMR after the first dose! 95%!!!!! 95% of our children are receiving vaccines unnecessarily!! No doctor ever told me I could opt for this instead of getting her vaccinated AGAIN. And then when I approached my ped about it I had to sign a waiver that I was putting my child's life in danger by not re vaccinating her with MMR and Hep A.
Taking the titer's test was the best thing I ever did, she was immune to all three and they also checked her for chicken pox which she was also immune to.
With my next baby I will research more on vaccines. We don't know the full facts IMHO about vaccines and autism, how do we know that there's a different chemistry in Joey's body that would cause him to react to MMR vaccine with autism, however Johnny doesn't have that make up? I am just saying, do your research, know your rights.

EXACTLY!!! After I started working with autistic kids, I was telling all of my pregnant friends and SILs to really check on the shots. Space them out if possible, make sure there was no mercury. Some shots had to be done bc of day care attendance. Since many of them didn't go, they were able to put some stuff off until before K - when their bodies were bigger, stronger, and able to adapt better. My one friend's doctor said he only had shots with mercury in it and she refused it. Went to another doctor and got one w/o. They were all very smart about it, looked at their options. And thankfully none of these kids ever had any lasting problems.

And emotion or no emotion - I know what I've seen with my own 2 eyes - so I know exactly what to think

 

[SusanWasHere]

And your Scientific degree is in? When you have your Immunology degree, or your Biological research degree, or your pharmacy degree or the list goes on Please stick to teaching which is what I believe your training is in.


PS there is no money in vaccines, which is why all the companies are getting out of the business.

Um I don't recall ever having saying that I had one?? But after 18 years, I have met many people with those degrees and have heard it right from their mouths. So thanks for your concern!!

 

[Hannathy]

Um I don't recall ever having saying that I had one?? But after 18 years, I have met many people with those degrees and have heard it right from their mouths. So thanks for your concern!!

You are insulting people who have proven there is no scientific proof that Autism is caused by vaccines and advising people on what to do based on emotional responses that comes from working with autistic children. I am simply pointing out you do not have the background or training to declare this correlation when it has not been able to be proven in years and years of studies no matter how much the families with autistic children would like it to be.

Actually IMO it is the autistic families that do not want to admit there is just something wrong with their perfect child through no fault of an outside influence and are trying to pin the blame on anyone but it (autism) just being a flaw of nature.

I have read of no studies from the scientific community showing a link, yet you say you have heard it. Please show these studies.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Actually IMO it is the autistic families that do not want to admit there is just something wrong with their perfect child through no fault of an outside influence and are trying to pin the blame on anyone but it (autism) just being a flaw of nature.

This is exactly what I was talking about. WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW

 

[JACH1976]

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[luvmy3]

WOW! I find so many of the posters in this thread EXTREMELY scary. If you don't have a child with autism and have never watched your child go from typical, talking, and sociable and then turn into a child completely introverted, self-injurious, and never wanting to be touched you should have NOTHING to say about the causes of autism.

Anyone with a child who gets vaccinated certainly should have something to say about the risks, or non-risks of those vaccines. Are our children not entitled to that because they haven't experienced what you describe, sorry I don't think so.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Well, my child has autism and I KNOW that it had nothing to do with his vaccinations. He's never had a vaccination with any kind of mercury in it (and I didn't get any vaccinations when I was pregnant), never had any adverse reactions to his vaccines, and had symptoms as early as four months of age. We also never had a moment where he "changed forever"- he was just born different.

You're right that we don't know what causes autism (a very complex question, as the autism spectrum is defined by a list of symptoms which are probably caused by many different things) but it's probably a combination of genetic and environmental factors, like cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and just about everything else. And I really get upset when parents in the autism community (and they exist!) tell me that I caused my child's autism when I chose to have him vaccinated. The studies just don't back it up, and it's time (as a PP said) to focus on making the lives of our children better, and stop wasting time on this debunked theory.

Sorry for the soap-boxing, but as someone else said, it's an emotional topic for those of us who have loved ones living with autism.

ITA with you! I don't believe it has caused every case. Like I said in an earlier post there's enough out there to know that as a fact. There are tons of clusters in certain areas that def lend to environmental causes. And many families now have more than one child with autism in their family showing a definite genetic factor. I actually think it was more common to have problems from the vaccines years ago - before people knew better. The kids that are now in their late teens and early 20s. And those are the parents I'm talking about. Someone with no clue about it shouldn't tell them what to think or believe. Every case is different, another reason why it's so hard to pinpoint. And until some scientist comes out that has tested every single autistic kid on the planet - we are never going to truly know. Not in our lifetime.

 

[SusanWasHere]

Anyone with a child who gets vaccinated certainly should have something to say about the risks, or non-risks of those vaccines. Are our children not entitled to that because they haven't yet experienced what you describe, sorry I don't think so.

Just bc your child turned out ok makes it fine to tell the millions of parents who had children that didn't that they are crazy? Sorry, I don't think so. How about I give you about 50 phone numbers of parents that are certain about the vaccines causing their child's autism and you call them and tell them they're wrong bc your kid turned out fine? Go watch the videos of their child bright eyed, playing, saying hi to their mom and dad, hugging their brother, and then days later see the video of them eating their own skin and banging their head against the wall until it bled and never speaking again 2 days after their shots. Not all autism is caused by any one thing. But I can say with 100% certainty that it did cause some cases. Just like my cousin goes into seizures from penicillin, but I don't. Or some kids die from eating a peanut and some don't. Some sytems are different. I am not against vaccines - I'm against using them responsibly. I have those phone numbers if you'd like to give those parents your opinion....

 

[luvmy3]

Just bc your child turned out ok makes it fine to tell the millions of parents who had children that didn't that they are crazy? Sorry, I don't think so. How about I give you about 50 phone numbers of parents that are certain about the vaccines causing their child's autism and you call them and tell them they're wrong bc your kid turned out fine? Go watch the videos of their child bright eyed, playing, saying hi to their mom and dad, hugging their brother, and then days later see the video of them eating their own skin and banging their head against the wall until it bled and never speaking again 2 days after their shots. Not all autism is caused by any one thing. But I can say with 100% certainty that it did cause some cases. Just like my cousin goes into seizures from penicillin, but I don't. Or some kids die from eating a peanut and some don't. Some sytems are different. I am not against vaccines - I'm against using them responsibly. I have those phone numbers if you'd like to give those parents your opinion....

Being certain and having actual proof are 2 very different things.

 

[Scurvy]

Just bc your child turned out ok makes it fine to tell the millions of parents who had children that didn't that they are crazy? Sorry, I don't think so. How about I give you about 50 phone numbers of parents that are certain about the vaccines causing their child's autism and you call them and tell them they're wrong bc your kid turned out fine? Go watch the videos of their child bright eyed, playing, saying hi to their mom and dad, hugging their brother, and then days later see the video of them eating their own skin and banging their head against the wall until it bled and never speaking again 2 days after their shots. Not all autism is caused by any one thing. But I can say with 100% certainty that it did cause some cases. Just like my cousin goes into seizures from penicillin, but I don't. Or some kids die from eating a peanut and some don't. Some sytems are different. I am not against vaccines - I'm against using them responsibly. I have those phone numbers if you'd like to give those parents your opinion....

If there is a correlation between vaccines and Autism, a study should be able to prove that. I have more confidence in actual scientific studies than in the observations of people who are looking for answers and may be too emotional about their own situation to be able to see things clearly. As cold as it may sound, emotion has no place in science.

I'm curious, though. I have seen some speculation that vaccines do contribute to the development of symptoms of Autism in some children. Not because of the vaccine itself, but because of the fever that some children have after receiving the vaccine. There is no scientific proof of such a thing, but if that turned out to be the case - if it was the onset of fever, and not anything about the vaccine specifically, that caused the symptoms - would you still feel that some people should avoid vaccines?