Vaccinations

[TinkInPink]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say . I for vaccinations. What I was pointing is that I would understand the hesitation if scientific studies were all saying different things but the bottom line is they're all in agreement that vaccines don't cause autism and do save lives. That's where my comment about not understanding where the confusion lies. Basically I'm not understanding why so many parents are hesitant.

Look at it this way, studies have shown that seatbelts save lives but you'll still hear of the odd case of a person actually being saved because he/she wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Are you going to hope you're that odd case and not wear one?

I understand some children have bad reactions to immunizations and that can make parents hesitant to continue immunizing that child or to allow future children to be immunized but the benefits still far outweigh the risks.

no i was agreeing with you
the idea that vaccines have been used over and over again with out high numbers of reactions is the scientific method (doing an experiment over and over and getting reproduce able results), sorry if that was confusing.


We are really taking a step backwards and basing our scientific info on a few outliers.

 

[CEDmom]

no i was agreeing with you
the idea that vaccines have been used over and over again with out high numbers of reactions is the scientific method (doing an experiment over and over and getting reproduce able results), sorry if that was confusing.


We are really taking a step backwards and basing our scientific info on a few outliers.

Glad that got cleared up .

 

[drag n' fly]

Then as a pediatric nurse you should know that an infant isn't fully protected from whopping cough until they've had the full course of vaccinations which leaves them mostly unprotected during the point in their life when it is the most deadly.

I got whooping cough when I was 8 months pregnant with DS from a vaccinated child. Loved that one, really I did.

I am not a nurse. I have worked in peds in another profession. The family in question was a child who came from a family of non immunizers. All three children were hospitalized due to none of the children being immunized. The Mother felt the best way to keep her children healthy was to continue breastfeeding them. She did manage to turn quite a few heads nursing a 6 and 4 year old. Yes five shots are needed to protect children and even then only up to 85% protection is available. The vaccine is only meant to diminish the effects of the disease if caught not completely eliminate it. I feel 85% is better than zero. A child who is 10 months old and comes from a family of non immunizers and has whooping cough is a hard thing to see. That child really suffered. Fortunately all three of my children came through vaccinations ok. For those who didn't, who am I too judge. They are only doing what they feel is best for their child.

 

[Belle1962]

simply note that you wish "T free" vaccines at your doctor's office. Remind your doctor's office when it is close to your appt time so they can be sure to have it in stock. The shelf life of T-free vaccines is shorter than other vaccines so most doctor's office do not keep a large supply on hand.

The main concern about autsim is related to the amount of thimerosal in the vaccines. They feel it is the thimerosal that may contribute to autism not the actual vaccine itself (thimerosal is the preservative used in the vaccine).

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

I understand some children have bad reactions to immunizations and that can make parents hesitant to continue immunizing that child or to allow future children to be immunized but the benefits still far outweigh the risks.

The benefits outweigh the risks for SOME kids.

That's what seems to go over a lot of peoples heads. Yours too it seems since my kids should be locked in our home and never let outside lest they share deadly diseases with the vaccinated kids.

I have to say I'm shocked at the flippant attitude towards adverse reactions. When my DS had his I was wondering if we were going to make it through. In the same turn I spent days in the hospital with our youngest while she was having seizures and apnea spells. You can't tell me that if your child had moments when they stopped breathing or seizures that you would only be hesitant to not vaccinate. There is a genetic connection to adverse reactions, if one child had one chances are their siblings will as well. It's like playing russian roulette, I'm not willing to risk my children because the benefits of vaccinations outweigh the risk for some kids.

 

[Nikel]

Fortunately all three of my children came through vaccinations ok. For those who didn't, who am I too judge. They are only doing what they feel is best for their child.

That you for acknowledging that. In light of some other posts, it means a lot that even if you don't support my choice, you're not condemning me.

The benefits outweigh the risks for SOME kids.

That's what seems to go over a lot of peoples heads. Yours too it seems since my kids should be locked in our home and never let outside lest they share deadly diseases with the vaccinated kids.

I have to say I'm shocked at the flippant attitude towards adverse reactions. When my DS had his I was wondering if we were going to make it through. In the same turn I spent days in the hospital with our youngest while she was having seizures and apnea spells. You can't tell me that if your child had moments when they stopped breathing or seizures that you would only be hesitant to not vaccinate. There is a genetic connection to adverse reactions, if one child had one chances are their siblings will as well. It's like playing russian roulette, I'm not willing to risk my children because the benefits of vaccinations outweigh the risk for some kids.

Yes, I really don't understand how some people aren't getting this. What, your child almost died? Well suck it up, so mine doesn't get chicken pox.

 

[CEDmom]

That you for acknowledging that. In light of some other posts, it means a lot that even if you don't support my choice, you're not condemning me.



Yes, I really don't understand how some people aren't getting this. What, your child almost died? Well suck it up, so mine doesn't get chicken pox.

Of course I feel for any child that's been seriously ill from an immunization and if it were my child I'd seek out medical experts in deciding how to deal with the situation going forward.

However, I'd speculate that the vast majority of people who don't vaccinate haven't experienced that. They're basing their decision on unscientific data and anecdotal accounts of side effects not actual issues with their own children.

 

[mefordis]

The path that dh and I have traveled to reach the point of "not vaccinating" has not been an easy one, nor do we take this decision lightly.


#4 in the above link states:



First reason:

We weighed each disease, family health history, the prevalence of it, the safety of the vaccine and the efficacy of the vaccine. For dd we did end up giving her most of the available vaccines on the schedule and since doing more research and living through the failure of one the vaccines we felt "essential," we have come to the conclusion that currently... there aren't any vaccines that are worth giving to our kids when weighing all the factors. No study can tell me if a vaccine is safe for my specific children, only I can do that in conjunction w/ our medical professionals.

Second reason:

See here is the biggie.. it isn't MY responsibility to put MY children at risk to protect "the herd." You can call it selfish if you wish but, they are my kids and I'm not going to do something that I consider will put them in danger... even if it is for the "greater good."

Oh and FWIW, we started down this path because there are considerable health concerns if our kids get the MMR shot (nothing to do w/ autism). The more we researched, the more we learned... and we are smarter now w/ ds than we were w/ dd.

Thank you for posting. As a mom of a 3 1/2 year old who got SOME vaccinations, but now we are declining all (we live in NJ and it's all or none here), I feel like it would be A LOT easier for me just to get the vaccinations, as far a school goes. Everyone gets them, just do it. HOWEVER, that would require forgetting everything I have researched and shutting my ears to my mommy instincts. Children are equipt with their own immune system. That said, of course some vaccinations were good when they came out, such as Polio, but now they have taken the vaccintations to a whole new level where we are injecting our small children with 60-some vaccinations by the time they are in their teens (if you go with every single recommendation). These vaccinations contain formeldehyde (sp?), aluminum, all sorts of chemicals. Can this be good for a small body? My common sense tells me no. And I fear in years to come, we will see the affects (cancer? early alzheimers? mercury poisioning?)

I think some parents got all of the vaccinations and feel like it's too late,, they have made their choice, and don't want to entertain the possibility of problems occuring due to the vaccinations. But it is never too late. Look at the schedule of vaccinations. They want you to vax all the way up to freshman in college. Geez. HPV? Give me a break. Hep B for an infant? a disease only contracted by IV or sex? for a newborn? My common sense sends up the red flag. By the way, I got that one for my lil daughter before I began educating myself on vaccinations. That one still contains themerisol, by the way.

Also, Autism has become the umbrella term, I think, for what could, in some instances, be called mercury poisoning.

Oh, also, when I was a child I had Mumps, chicken pox and measles. Inconvenient but hardly the terrible life threatening conditions I am reading about with some of these cases of vaccine reactions.

I read the other day that your chances are greater of being bitten by a cobra than contracting Polio.

Also, how many people read the insert of the vax before administering it? Can you really say the potiential for seizures, high temps, and the load of other possible reactions is NOT scarier than chicken pox?

This is a good site:
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html

 

[Geoff_M]

I have several friends whose children have had whooping cough...some as infants. Some were vaxed according to schedule, others were not (proof that there is no such thing as 100% reliable, pharmaceutical immunization). All of them lived through it, and are now naturally immune. Whooping cough is not the outrageously deadly disease people seem to think it is. Yes, there are deaths, but have MOST people on this thread actually researched the statistics provided by the CDC, and then looked into the nature of those deaths? The ages and previous health status of the victims? The treatment courses which may or may not have contributed to their deaths? Call me crazy (which some of you already have, lol), but I think not! If my son gets whooping cough, then we will have an unpleasant week here. So far, he has proven unable to catch ANYTHING, and we are out and about around literally dozens of other children at least 4 out of 7 days in a typical week. We just got back from 17 days in Florida/WDW and nary a bug in sight! He is a healthy child and I am not in the least concerned that he could die from pertussis! I am, however, concerned that vaccines could shorten or decrease the quality of his life. Most people choose Door #1, and that's fine...but I'm going for Door #2 and have full confidence in that decision. It simply amazes me that people (two come to mind) won't let it go and continue to denigrate my choice and the choices of others on this thread.

Do not confuse disagreement with denigration. I do not believe I have in any way denigrated your decision.

You also appear to assume that I am a new-comer to this subject and therefore have not done my own research on the subject. I've done plenty myself. Just because I have not reached the same conclusion as you, doesn't mean I'm a novice on the subject.

As I noted earlier, to no one's surprise, there is a forming correlation between lower levels of immunizations and higher instances of the given disease. Given that increased use of vaccines is the reason that many childhood horrors have all but vanished, the opposite is also only all too true. While you may shrug off Whooping Cough or Measles or anything else as a mere "unpleasantness", even given our advanced health care and drugs to combat symptoms, there will be cases where the outcomes will be tragic. A family member of mine lost a large percentage of his hearing due to childhood measles... others will loose more. More cases, more bad outcomes... extenuating circumstances, or not.

On the flip side of the coin, there are adverse reactions in the administration of vaccines. However, the odds as I've read them are that, unless contraindicated, are in favor of vaccination.

Yes, it's a personal choice (though one that has some implications for others). But this reminds me of another "choice issue": seat belt use. The data clearly shows that the use of seat belts saves lives. Still, an amazing percentage of people won't wear them. They'll often cite data that shows that (correctly) in certain cases seat belt use can increase the chance of, or severity of, an injury... or point to the number of people that wear them and still perish as justification for their feelings. That's logic that escapes me.

(Edited: CEDmom, I swear I didn't read your post where you used the seat belt analogy before I posted this... that's scary!)

 

[KariC]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say . I for vaccinations. What I was pointing is that I would understand the hesitation if scientific studies were all saying different things but the bottom line is they're all in agreement that vaccines don't cause autism and do save lives. That's where my comment about not understanding where the confusion lies. Basically I'm not understanding why so many parents are hesitant.

Look at it this way, studies have shown that seatbelts save lives but you'll still hear of the odd case of a person actually being saved because he/she wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Are you going to hope you're that odd case and not wear one?

I understand some children have bad reactions to immunizations and that can make parents hesitant to continue immunizing that child or to allow future children to be immunized but the benefits still far outweigh the risks.

good analogy!

 

[KariC]

Just a question to some of the non-vaccinators, do you ever worry about international travel for yourselves? Or do you worry about visitors to the US? Just a few months ago there was the incidince of the American that traveled after being asked not to (don't remember all the details, just that it was discussed on the DIS- of course!). Do you worry about your child coming into contact with a traveler from some country (I started to type about 5 different countries....but didn't want to offend.. ) that would have a disease we don't experience often in the US due to vaccinations?

I'm only asking b/c we see everywhere how we're becoming a more global society, and we see all this discussion about pandemic diseases....did that factor into your decision making? It did factor into mine. And, yes, I know that there are boosters required, and there is no 100% coverage (my twins actually started an "outbreak" from their 2nd b-day at a YMCA of chickenpox in vaccinated friends. The most experienced was 50 pox---between a set of twins. We had 12 at our house....just boosted their immunity even more.) And I would say 12 pox sure beats the case I had at 3 (don't know the count)!

For those of you with children with life threatening reactions, your decision makes perfect sense. It's the same reason I choose to eat sunbutter and avoid peanuts and peanut butter as if my life depended on it (it does. ). (yep, Brandie, we're still lower on the totem poll!!) You really don't have a choice.....I would just assume you take more precautions with your children's exposure to all viruses/diseases.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

If you'd like to discuss typos.....

My post was simply to defend those of us, such as myself, who choose to follow the advice of our physicians, not to attack your ability to interpret scientific studies.

my apologies

I took it the wrong way!

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I think that the point is that there are WAY more children that aren't vaccinated due to lack of access to the vaccinations than there are where their parents have actively chosen not to vaccinate.

So another take home message, until every child who has parents that WANT their child vaccinated (or don't actively choose not to vax) are vaccinated... don't worry about the even smaller minority of children that are not vaxed by choice.

Did I get that right pan?

Absolutely !!! Thank you !

 

[disney-super-mom]

Just a question to some of the non-vaccinators, do you ever worry about international travel for yourselves? Or do you worry about visitors to the US? Just a few months ago there was the incidince of the American that traveled after being asked not to (don't remember all the details, just that it was discussed on the DIS- of course!). Do you worry about your child coming into contact with a traveler from some country (I started to type about 5 different countries....but didn't want to offend.. ) that would have a disease we don't experience often in the US due to vaccinations?

I'm only asking b/c we see everywhere how we're becoming a more global society, and we see all this discussion about pandemic diseases....did that factor into your decision making? It did factor into mine. And, yes, I know that there are boosters required, and there is no 100% coverage (my twins actually started an "outbreak" from their 2nd b-day at a YMCA of chickenpox in vaccinated friends. The most experienced was 50 pox---between a set of twins. We had 12 at our house....just boosted their immunity even more.) And I would say 12 pox sure beats the case I had at 3 (don't know the count)!

For those of you with children with life threatening reactions, your decision makes perfect sense. It's the same reason I choose to eat sunbutter and avoid peanuts and peanut butter as if my life depended on it (it does. ). (yep, Brandie, we're still lower on the totem poll!!) You really don't have a choice.....I would just assume you take more precautions with your children's exposure to all viruses/diseases.

Those wanting to visit the U.S. need to obtain a temporary visa (with the exception of Canadian, Mexican, and Bahama citizens), and in order to get a temporary visa, a person must be vaccinated for basically everything on the U.S. vaccination schedule, unless they can prove (only through a doctor) that vaccinations would cause them harm. The only exception is for foreign children under the age of 10 who are being adopted by U.S parent/parents.

 

[lsyorke]

Vaccinations provide partial protection, not total protection. Every person who is not vaccinated increases the risk to the public. Therefore, it becomes a public issue. If Nikel's kid catches pertussis and Nikel takes her into the grocery store to get medicine and chicken noodle soup, even those partially protected by vaccinations have a chance of infection.

The pertussis vaccine does not give lifetime immunity. It will protect for approximately 5 years(as per my son's pediatrician). This was after my son was diagnosed with pertussis....yes, he was vaccinated, didn't stop it as he got older. He was 13 at the time.
I don't have little ones, but if I did I would have to give ALOT of thought to vaccinating.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

Those wanting to visit the U.S. need to obtain a temporary visa (with the exception of Canadian, Mexican, and Bahama citizens), and in order to get a temporary visa, a person must be vaccinated for basically everything on the U.S. vaccination schedule, unless they can prove (only through a doctor) that vaccinations would cause them harm. The only exception is for foreign children under the age of 10 who are being adopted by U.S parent/parents.

There are a few more countries that you don't need a visa for -

Andorra Iceland Norway
Australia Ireland Portugal
Austria Italy San Marino
Belgium Japan Singapore
Brunei Liechtenstein Slovenia
Denmark Luxembourg Spain
Finland Monaco Sweden
France the Netherlands Switzerland
Germany New Zealand United Kingdom

To answer the other question, we take risks on a daily basis. We aren't going to keep the kids in hiding because of the possibility of disease.

 

[mefordis]

Your own immunity is a lot better than a vaccinated immunity and will last a lifetime. Vaccinated immunity does not last forever and this is why you need to be revaccinated.

By having certain diseases while young and during childhood you are giving the immune system a chance to develop, grow and respond to various types of bacteria and viruses. By doing this the immune system develops and when you vaccinate against various things you are robbing the immune system of this chance to develop fully and by doing this a lot of kids can go on to have far greater health problems as adults because of this.

Chicken pox can be fatal in adults, but is not usually life threatening in children. Also, contracting chicken pox confers a higher level of immunity than receiving the vaccine. I don't see any compelling reason to vaccinate healthy children for this disease. Seems like a better idea to vaccinate older children/adults who are at higher risk for complications.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I so agree. Just wait until the kids start dieing again let alone start suffering from deafness, blindness,and brain damage.

Niece dead. Husband's first cousin deaf. My first cousin deaf...all documented catastrophic reactions to immunizations. Friend's child dead. Cousin in law's child a polio victim. From the immunization. These aren't just random statistics. These were/are real people in my immediate circle.

 

[meandtheguys2]

For those of you with children with life threatening reactions, your decision makes perfect sense. It's the same reason I choose to eat sunbutter and avoid peanuts and peanut butter as if my life depended on it (it does. ). (yep, Brandie, we're still lower on the totem poll!!) You really don't have a choice.....I would just assume you take more precautions with your children's exposure to all viruses/diseases.

We do. We feed them a good solid diet of healthy whole food, and they get plenty of excercise. We've had to resort to antibiotics 4 times total for the 3 kids. So, it seems to be working.

They also were given a homeopathic tetanus treatment that has done it's job, thankfully. We have a farm in the country, and it was used at one point to raise pigs, so tetanus was a huge concern to me.

 

[gina2000]

Whenever people point out diseases that aren't life threatening as a reason they don't vaccinate, I wonder about those diseases that are. Many people seems to feel measles, mumps and chicken pox are childhood diseases and not necessarily a disaster to contract. But what about polio, diphtheria, menengitis and hepatitis? These are diseases that have been virtually eradicated in the US due to mass vaccinations. These diseases are often fatal. They aren't something to be dismissed. I am truly curious about this because it's the first thing people bring up when they talk about not vaccinating. Rationale such as whooping cough isn't so bad.....kids get measles, mumps and chicken pox without fatalities. But let's talk about the big diseases, the ones that can and have been fatal. Those diseases are the ones that I'm truly worried about in this age of "do your own thing with vaccinations".

This isn't meant to be inflammatory but I truly can't wrap my head around it.