Vaccinations

[Nikel]

Honestly, it is valid to tell you to keep your kid away from my kid. Be offended all you want, but the reality is you are making a choice only for your child--you don't get to make a choice for everyone else. When the rest of society is 80% protected, your decision (valid though it may be) to not protect your child against whooping cough and a host of other diseases still comes down to possibly a deadly one for others.

Brandie

Well fortunately for me, the government sides with me. My child could still attend public school or be in public in general. Until that changes, nope, I will not let anyone else tell us we can't be in public.

 

[Geoff_M]

Food for thought with regard to Whooping Cough and Measles:

Study: Whooping cough rates rise as parents refuse vaccines
TUESDAY, Oct. 10 (HealthDay News) — More parents are refusing to have their children immunized against common childhood diseases, as some states make it easier to evade mandatory requirements.

The result is a higher incidence of pertussis — whooping cough — among their children, a nationwide study finds.

Every state allows medical exemptions to immunizations, and 19 now allow exemptions based on personal beliefs. This has led to a mean exemption rate increase of 6 percent a year in the number of children not being immunized, from 0.99 percent in 1991 to 2.54 percent in 2004, said researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

"Pertussis incidence in states allowing personal belief exemptions was twice as high as in states that only offered religious exemptions," the researchers reported.

The findings are published in the Oct. 11 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

Pertussis can be a serious disease. There are more than 10,000 cases in the United States each year, and 13 children died of it in 2003.

Pertussis was chosen for the study because "it is a relatively common preventable disease that has had a vaccine for a long period of time now and still is not eradicated in the United States," said atudy author Dr. Saad B. Omer, associate director of Hopkins' Institute for Vaccine Safety.

The study shows that easier exemption rules "play a significant role" in the increased incidence of the disease, Omer said. "It is increasing in states that most easily allow exemptions."

State-mandated immunization programs have virtually eliminated childhood diseases that once were commonplace. In the first two years of life, a child can get up to 24 injections, for vaccines against measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, pneumonia, and influenza type B, among others.

The rise in requests for exemptions is, in large part, due to the success of the immunization program, the researchers said.

"The success of immunizations has paradoxically shifted many parents' concerns from the risks of vaccine-preventable diseases to the risks of vaccine-adverse events," they said.

This is not the first report of increased rates of a childhood disease due to parents' refusal to immunize children, said Dr. Paul A. Offit, chief of infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. An earlier report showed the same effect with measles, he said.

Refusal to have children immunized appears to be a peculiarly American phenomenon, Offit said, caused by "the balance we have in this country between individual rights and the rights of the public. To my knowledge, this is the only country to have state mandates for immunization, and the only one that needs them."

Studies have shown that 10 percent to 15 percent of American parents have doubts about the safety of vaccines, Offit said. "What this paper says is that you can go too far. If you refuse to get a vaccine, it affects not only you and your child but also the person in school next to your child," he said.

The danger of infection is increased because "people who refuse to have a child immunized are not evenly distributed in the country or in the states," said Dr. Robert S. Baltimore, a professor of pediatrics and immunology at Yale University School of Medicine, and a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics' committee on infectious diseases. "There are clusters," he added.

"People think that if they avoid vaccination, they will be protected by people who get vaccinated," Baltimore said. "That is not true. They share in the community concepts, which make it more probable that the neighbors have avoided vaccination."

The new report may help change some parents' and politicians' views on vaccine-exemption policies, Baltimore said. "State policy is often influenced by anti-vaccination groups who are well organized," he said. "This paper may counter their influence."

Offit said: "We geta lot of calls from parents who are troubled by vaccines. Then there is an unmovable group that believes it is a conspiracy of doctors and pharmaceutical companies, that it is all about selling vaccines. No matter what the data shows, they are not convinced. We have to ask people to have faith, and there has been an erosion of it." Link

 

[CEDmom]

AKA SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



it isn't one study people have been vaccinated for hundreds of years. Talk about a Me Me Me culture. Yes there is a chance that they may have a negative reaction, but in the long run there is a greater risk to get seriously ill from what (if they had the vaccine ) they would not have gotten. Go ahead prove the majority of the science and medical field wrong, don vaccinate but your kid had better not be around other groups of kids who are vaccinated, just because you take the risk doesn't mean the other children have to be exposed to it.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say . I for vaccinations. What I was pointing is that I would understand the hesitation if scientific studies were all saying different things but the bottom line is they're all in agreement that vaccines don't cause autism and do save lives. That's where my comment about not understanding where the confusion lies. Basically I'm not understanding why so many parents are hesitant.

Look at it this way, studies have shown that seatbelts save lives but you'll still hear of the odd case of a person actually being saved because he/she wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Are you going to hope you're that odd case and not wear one?

I understand some children have bad reactions to immunizations and that can make parents hesitant to continue immunizing that child or to allow future children to be immunized but the benefits still far outweigh the risks.

 

[perdidobay]

Boy, I know people have the right to make their own choices in life, but I've got to think some of the young parents of today should have been living in the age I grew up in. They have no memories of the horrible deaths caused by polio and whooping cough just to mention two diseases. There was great rejoycing when the polio vaccine was created.......

Try reading "Warm Springs" by Susan Shreve for a dose of reality.

 

[Nikel]

I give up. You all can just go ahead and tar and feather me now.

 

[LadyShiva]

I give up. You all can just go ahead and tar and feather me now.

Yeah, I have a feeling your PTA will be equally icy towards your health choices.

But look at it this way... At least your kid doesn't have a peanut allergy. There will always be someone lower than you on the totem pole.

Brandie

 

[DisneyPhD]

Ok, I don't get it. Why would anyone be concerned that their child who has all of their vaccinations be at risk being around kids who don't??????? If they are vaxed they are protected.

I don't think it is anyone else's business if a family chooses to vax or not. Especially in Nikel's case where they tried it and very bad results or people with strong family history of problems with it.

In my case, I am concerned about vaccinations, but with the exception to my DD's egg allergy have no reason not to do them, so I will continue them (and pray like crazy every time.)

 

[LadyShiva]

Ok, I don't get it. Why would anyone be concerned that their child who has all of their vaccinations be at risk being around kids who don't??????? If they are vaxed they are protected.

Vaccinations provide partial protection, not total protection. Every person who is not vaccinated increases the risk to the public. Therefore, it becomes a public issue. If Nikel's kid catches pertussis and Nikel takes her into the grocery store to get medicine and chicken noodle soup, even those partially protected by vaccinations have a chance of infection.

It's a nasty choice of the lady or the tiger, but it adds in the choice to expose the rest of the people around your child. Nikel can either quarantine her child and minimize her interactions -for the rest of her child's life or until a "safe" vaccination is available for her kid- or just go in public and pray her kid doesn't get hurt or hurt the little old lady or the newborn on Aisle 3.

Stinks either way.

Brandie

 

[drag n' fly]

Whether parents choose to immunize or not is a personal decision. If they choose not to they must be willing to accept responsibility for the potential outcome. I will not comment on the autism connection. Their has been an increase in recent years of diseases that were practically eradicated but renewed due to a lower rate of immunization. Having worked in pediatrics ward, their is nothing more sad than watching a child suffer the effects of a disease (eg: an infant with whooping cough) due to the fact they were not immunized.

 

[CEDmom]

Ok, I don't get it. Why would anyone be concerned that their child who has all of their vaccinations be at risk being around kids who don't??????? If they are vaxed they are protected.
I don't think it is anyone else's business if a family chooses to vax or not. Especially in Nikel's case where they tried it and very bad results or people with strong family history of problems with it.

In my case, I am concerned about vaccinations, but with the exception to my DD's egg allergy have no reason not to do them, so I will continue them (and pray like crazy every time.)

Because at best vaccines are 85-95% effective. If large pockets aren't vaccinated they put everyone at risk.

 

[Hannathy]

Boy, I know people have the right to make their own choices in life, but I've got to think some of the young parents of today should have been living in the age I grew up in. They have no memories of the horrible deaths caused by polio and whooping cough just to mention two diseases. There was great rejoycing when the polio vaccine was created.......

Try reading "Warm Springs" by Susan Shreve for a dose of reality.

I so agree. Just wait until the kids start dieing again let alone start suffering from deafness, blindness,and brain damage. Do you think they'll start closing the public pools in the summer again? I guess respirators are more compact than iron lungs. And with all the superbugs sitting around getting stronger from this generation of over sanitizing paranoia there should be some very sad and tragic cases of "flesh eating" bacterias happening to all the Chicken Pox cases soon.

Of course with this generation me and mine are all that matters, I hope they are up to the repercussions.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

Whether parents choose to immunize or not is a personal decision. If they choose not to they must be willing to accept responsibility for the potential outcome. I will not comment on the autism connection. Their has been an increase in recent years of diseases that were practically eradicated but renewed due to a lower rate of immunization. Having worked in pediatrics ward, their is nothing more sad than watching a child suffer the effects of a disease (eg: an infant with whooping cough) due to the fact they were not immunized.

Then as a pediatric nurse you should know that an infant isn't fully protected from whopping cough until they've had the full course of vaccinations which leaves them mostly unprotected during the point in their life when it is the most deadly.

I got whooping cough when I was 8 months pregnant with DS from a vaccinated child. Loved that one, really I did.

 

[3jsmommy]

My neighbor has 4 kids the first 2 are autistic the last two are not.
The first two had vacc. on schedule...last 2 none.
We were talking about this at the bus stop this morning right before I went to the ped for DS1's one year well check.
Would you tell her she was making a selfish choice?
Do you think she was worried about the measles?
All of the posters who say that vacc.'s are wonderful & "young parents don't understand how terrible these diseases were...well you didn't have to read articles quoting 1 in 94 boys in some areas being diagnosed autistic.
This mother is wonderful & she doesn't know if it was the vacc.'s or not but she thinks it played a role...like I said the last two aren't autistic.

 

[Nikel]

Vaccinations provide partial protection, not total protection. Every person who is not vaccinated increases the risk to the public. Therefore, it becomes a public issue. If Nikel's kid catches pertussis and Nikel takes her into the grocery store to get medicine and chicken noodle soup, even those partially protected by vaccinations have a chance of infection.

It's a nasty choice of the lady or the tiger, but it adds in the choice to expose the rest of the people around your child. Nikel can either quarantine her child and minimize her interactions -for the rest of her child's life or until a "safe" vaccination is available for her kid- or just go in public and pray her kid doesn't get hurt or hurt the little old lady or the newborn on Aisle 3.

Stinks either way.

Brandie

And just to defend myself, perhaps a smidge, if my child got a vpd, or any potentially serious contagious disease, or I knew my child had been exposed to one, I would choose to minimize our interactions with the public. Just like I'd hope any parent of a fully vaccinated child would do the same.

Ok, please everyone proceed with vilifying me now. Sorry for the interruption.

 

[Nikel]

I so agree. Just wait until the kids start dieing again let alone start suffering from deafness, blindness,and brain damage. Do you think they'll start closing the public pools in the summer again? I guess respirators are more compact than iron lungs. And with all the superbugs sitting around getting stronger from this generation of over sanitizing paranoia there should be some very sad and tragic cases of "flesh eating" bacterias happening to all the Chicken Pox cases soon.

Of course with this generation me and mine are all that matters, I hope they are up to the repercussions.

As I've already stated more than once on this thread, yes, I am being selfish. And after our vax experiences, I am prepared to deal with the potential repercussions. I currently feel that continuing with the vaxes as they are is a riskier move. I'm sorry if you disagree, but like I also previously said, you might feel differently if you had a child that had a bad reaction.

I completely agree with you about over sanitizing and superbugs though.

 

[disney-super-mom]

I know this can become a heated debate but that is not my intent and I hope we can keep this civil. I truly believe that this decision is a personal one and I would never judge someone for what they have researched and chosen.

With that said, I am very concerned about the "possible" connection between vaccines and autism. I am just starting to research and I'm hoping that fellow DISers can point me in the right direction of non biased information. I'm looking into possibly delaying some of the vaccines and breaking them up instead of lumping them together. After talking with one of my clients, a pediatric nurse, that was her suggestion. Has anyone done this or have any recommendations? Any info would be appreciated

It doesn't matter what everyone else here believes or thinks about this matter. It doesn't matter what the articles and studies say because you never know what ulterior motives are behind them (on either side of the debate). What matters is what you feel is best for your child.

If you are at all concerned, then your plan (breaking up the vaccinations) is the best course of action. It's absolutely acceptable to vaccinate on a much less aggressive schedule, and much easier for little bodies to handle. I believe in Japan (or it could be China) they don't start vaccinations until children reach the age of 2. They don't want to possibly disrupt crucial brain development taking place during the first couple years of life. In other words, it's always better to err' on the side of caution.

Your child will still be fully vaccinated, but instead of receiving most of the shots by the age of 2, your child will be 4 or 5 or 6 (or whatever you decide).

I think what you're doing is VERY RESPONSIBLE. You don't want to take a chance either way! (Vaccinating too early and too aggressively, and not vaccinating at all) BRAVO!

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Oh, what's the point?
There are some really rude posters on this thread.
Some of us will continue not to vaccinate our children, anyway.
The rest of you will do it according to whatever schedule you please.
And we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions.
I, for one, am totally satisfied with that!

 

[shortbun]

Vaccinations = personal choice

 

[Hannathy]

M
This mother is wonderful & she doesn't know if it was the vacc.'s or not but she thinks it played a role...like I said the last two aren't autistic.

It is called Scientific Principles and understanding them! Or shall we return to the dark ages and go by what everyone "believes" is true because they have not experienced it. I guess the world is flat because I think so , I mean I've never been into orbit to know for sure. AHHHHHHHH! where's the hitting my head against the wall smilie.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Well, hopefully you won't have to worry like some friends of ours did. They are in the "vaccines are evil" camp and haven't protected their kids. When their middle child was a baby we had an outbreak of Whooping Cough here, and they learned their baby had been exposed. They were worried sick for about a week and basically stayed locked in their house until they thought it was safe for other people to be around their kids.

I have several friends whose children have had whooping cough...some as infants. Some were vaxed according to schedule, others were not (proof that there is no such thing as 100% reliable, pharmaceutical immunization). All of them lived through it, and are now naturally immune. Whooping cough is not the outrageously deadly disease people seem to think it is. Yes, there are deaths, but have MOST people on this thread actually researched the statistics provided by the CDC, and then looked into the nature of those deaths? The ages and previous health status of the victims? The treatment courses which may or may not have contributed to their deaths? Call me crazy (which some of you already have, lol), but I think not! If my son gets whooping cough, then we will have an unpleasant week here. So far, he has proven unable to catch ANYTHING, and we are out and about around literally dozens of other children at least 4 out of 7 days in a typical week. We just got back from 17 days in Florida/WDW and nary a bug in sight! He is a healthy child and I am not in the least concerned that he could die from pertussis! I am, however, concerned that vaccines could shorten or decrease the quality of his life. Most people choose Door #1, and that's fine...but I'm going for Door #2 and have full confidence in that decision. It simply amazes me that people (two come to mind) won't let it go and continue to denigrate my choice and the choices of others on this thread.