Vaccinations

[katerkat]

No matter that the CDC, the FDA, the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics all are in agreement when it comes to childhood vaccination recommendations. The training involved, and continual review of scientific findings, in the people who make up these groups is overwhelming. But no, they are probably less informed than Joe Blow internet informed or someone who has obvious anti-vaccination bias writing a book full of theoretical ''evidence''.

Well... I could say the same about breastfeeding. The AAP recommended breastfeeding until 1 year when I had Russ, and I think they increased it to two years recently? The WHO recommends two years. Yet there's plenty of people who will argue that formula is just fine* - there's formula in hospitals - and many pediatricians don't know the recommendations on breastfeeding. At Russ's four month appointment, I was told to go ahead and start cereal and other solids, even though the recommendation is not until six months.

I had a ER pediatrician tell me there was no way my son could be dehydrated because he still had saliva in his mouth, even though he hadn't eaten or drank in 24 hours. Even though he had been seen on base that morning and the doctors THERE were the ones who made the decision that Russ was going to the ER. They finally used a catheter to determine his hydration levels (guess what? dehydrated!) and two weeks later the poor guy got an ulcer on his wee-wee from the catheter. So no, sometimes I tend to go with my Mommy-gut instead of ALL doctors. And my Mommy-gut tells me that even a school full of vaccinated kids still get the chicken pox, maybe waiting to catch the real disease and getting full immunity is a better choice for us.

*I'm not anti-formula - just if we're going to talk about what the AAP recommends, well, guess what? It's not exactly formula!

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Do you honestly believe that you have the educational background and resources to draw a more scientifically sound conclusion of the evidence than the CDC, FDA, AMA and AAP?

Yes, I do. My son is perfectly healthy and happy; that is the ONLY measure of my ability to discern the truth that really matters to me. To turn your "why trust dubious sources" argument around on you, why should I bow to the criticism and incredulity of strangers on an internet message board, when I know my conclusions are sound and the result speaks for itself?
There is no way you (or any other poster) can bring up any issue I haven't considered regarding vaccination. There is no way you can change my mind. There is no way you can prove me wrong (and no way I can prove you wrong, either). We will simply have to agree to disagree! You make decisions for your children (if you have them; I am sorry, I can't always remember who does), and I will make them for my child. Done and done, easy peasy! And we all live happily ever after.

 

[poohandwendy]

I have not, in any of my posts, made any claims that doctors are not human beings who make mistakes. I am talking about the collective opinion of many doctors compared to the 'research' of layman parents, many of which are reading information that may or may not be based on entirely false information (like thymerasol in MMR vaccines)

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I work w/ scientific research every day. I know how to read it and interpret it... so yes I'm qualified.

But... even if I didn't work in the scientific community. Just because I don't have a medical degree doesn't mean I don't have a brain, or can't do research and learn what I need to to make the decisions that are right for my family.

Do you have a folder of vax links to share with me via PM or e-mail? I am always collecting new information for my own purposes and to give friends making decisions regarding vaccination. Thanks!

 

[TinkInPink]

Yes, I do. My son is perfectly healthy and happy; that is the ONLY measure of my ability to discern the truth that really matters to me. To turn your "why trust dubious sources" argument around on you, why should I bow to the criticism and incredulity of strangers on an internet message board, when I know my conclusions are sound and the result speaks for itself?
There is no way you (or any other poster) can bring up any issue I haven't considered regarding vaccination. There is no way you can change my mind. There is no way you can prove me wrong (and no way I can prove you wrong, either). We will simply have to agree to disagree! You make decisions for your children (if you have them; I am sorry, I can't always remember who does), and I will make them for my child. Done and done, easy peasy! And we all live happily ever after.

But when your child becomes ill with a disease that we commonly vaccinate against and puts people at risk, will you take responsibility? Since the choice to vaccinate effects not only your child.

also when it comes to your sons health you would rather take the risk of him dying from something that is preventable over the infinitesimal one from the
vaccine?

 

[Deb in IA]

Heck, the AAP changes/updates its recommendations all the time.

The medical community is notorious for fighting change. Especially if the changes decrease the influence/power of said community.

Do you have a folder of vax links to share with me via PM or e-mail? I am always collecting new information for my own purposes and to give friends making decisions regarding vaccination. Thanks!

http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1029253486.html

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

 

[Geoff_M]

and many pediatricians don't know the recommendations on breastfeeding. At Russ's four month appointment, I was told to go ahead and start cereal and other solids, even though the recommendation is not until six months.

I had a ER pediatrician tell me there was no way my son could be dehydrated because he still had saliva in his mouth, even though he hadn't eaten or drank in 24 hours.

Yes, but comparing anecdotal questionable advice give by this individual doctor or that individual doctor to an entire body of medical knowledge on a given subject isn't the same thing. It's doubtful that a room full of pediatricians would have proclaimed that the presence of any saliva in the mouth would automatically rule out dehydration. Ironically, excepting the minority opinion like the bad advice you got from the ER doc is similar to accepting the minority medical opinion that thinks that standard childhood vaccinations should be avoided.

Why refer to the HPV vaccine as novel? It's not as new as Menactra, according to the list someone posted several pages back. Do you consider that one novel, too?

Both the HPV (approved in 2006) and Menactra (approved for kids in 2005) are examples of "novel" vaccines. "Novel" means there's something new and exclusive about the vaccine that would make it attractive to market. This is in contrast to the "old line" standard childhood "required" vaccines that are at the heart of the debate.

 

[Nikel]

But when your child becomes ill with a disease that we commonly vaccinate against and puts people at risk, will you take responsibility? Since the choice to vaccinate effects not only your child.

Sure, I'll 100% fully admit I selfishly worry more about my own children's health than the herds. However, if I decide to continue with vaccines and my dd has a worse reaction, does that mean the herd will take responsibility for that?

 

[LadyShiva]

Sure, I'll 100% fully admit I selfishly worry more about my own children's health than the herds. However, if I decide to continue with vaccines and my dd has a worse reaction, does that mean the herd will take responsibility for that?

There is a damage fund set up in the US for vaccination injuries.

Brandie

 

[CEDmom]

This post isn't directed at the poster quoted, it's more of a general question. I quoted it as reference to a resounding sentiment heard in this type of discussion.

Interesting that we trust the 'trained professionals' when it comes to opening up our chest to transplant a new heart, to diagnose our child when they need it, to see our children on a monthly/yearly basis...but when it comes to vaccinations, their 'training' comes into question. They are just human beings and they don't have all of the facts, or they are not taking into account the risks.

No matter that the CDC, the FDA, the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics all are in agreement when it comes to childhood vaccination recommendations. The training involved, and continual review of scientific findings, in the people who make up these groups is overwhelming. But no, they are probably less informed than Joe Blow internet informed or someone who has obvious anti-vaccination bias writing a book full of theoretical ''evidence''.

Will someone please tell me why we should trust someone writing a book or article about a theory that has not been proven more than the above, highly esteemed, groups?

ETA, I am not saying doctors are infallible, only that the above groups certainly are more informed in this area than the average internet/book researcher.

Once again the voice of reason and logic . Maybe you should write a book .

I don't think anyone should blindly accept what a dr tells them - isn't that why 2nd and even 3rd opinions are recommended ? However, when study after study draws the same conclusion it makes one wonder what all the confusion is about.

As for people who are offended that I don't think an unvaccinated child should be allowed in public schools and other places where children congregate for long periods I don't mean to offend I just want to protect my child. She's had every vaccine available but that doesn't mean she couldn't get something anyway. Why should I find it acceptable that she should be put at risk.

 

[Nikel]

There is a damage fund set up in the US for vaccination injuries.

Brandie

I'm gonna have to keep being selfish, and say that all the money in the world wouldn't change my mind on this one. Sorry. I'm not trying to put others children at risk, but after having an unresponsive infant, I am not at all comfortable taking my chances.

As for people who are offended that I don't think an unvaccinated child should be allowed in public schools and other places where children congregate for long periods I don't mean to offend I just want to protect my child. She's had every vaccine available but that doesn't mean she couldn't get something anyway. Why should I find it acceptable that she should be put at risk.

Funny, I'm just trying to keep my child healthy and minimize the risk. I guess it's a good thing I plan on homeschooling, so we won't have to deal with attitudes like yours that we're just out to kill other peoples children with our deadly germs.

 

[TinkInPink]

However, when study after study draws the same conclusion it makes one wonder what all the confusion is about.

AKA SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



it isn't one study people have been vaccinated for hundreds of years. Talk about a Me Me Me culture. Yes there is a chance that they may have a negative reaction, but in the long run there is a greater risk to get seriously ill from what (if they had the vaccine ) they would not have gotten. Go ahead prove the majority of the science and medical field wrong, don vaccinate but your kid had better not be around other groups of kids who are vaccinated, just because you take the risk doesn't mean the other children have to be exposed to it.

 

[TinkInPink]

we're just out to kill other peoples children with our deadly germs.

Actually in todays world with modern technology being able to prevent such diseases, in a sense you are.

 

[Geoff_M]

Sure, I'll 100% fully admit I selfishly worry more about my own children's health than the herds.

Well, hopefully you won't have to worry like some friends of ours did. They are in the "vaccines are evil" camp and haven't protected their kids. When their middle child was a baby we had an outbreak of Whooping Cough here, and they learned their baby had been exposed. They were worried sick for about a week and basically stayed locked in their house until they thought it was safe for other people to be around their kids.

 

[LadyShiva]

I'm gonna have to keep being selfish, and say that all the money in the world wouldn't change my mind on this one. Sorry. I'm not trying to put others children at risk, but after having an unresponsive infant, I am not at all comfortable taking my chances.

Funny, I'm just trying to keep my child healthy and minimize the risk. I guess it's a good thing I plan on homeschooling, so we won't have to deal with attitudes like yours that we're just out to kill other peoples children with our deadly germs.

I think you're taking a justifiable risk. If your child has a known serious reaction to a vaccination component in the vaccine you're contemplating, why would you vaccinate? Why would anyone push you to vaccinate? It is a calculated risk for the rest of your child's life, but you have an extreme reason to take that risk.

Your decision can always be re-evaluated later, if the justification changes, right? It isn't as if you can never get a shot later in life.

Brandie

 

[Nikel]

AKA SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



it isn't one study people have been vaccinated for hundreds of years. Talk about a Me Me Me culture. Yes there is a chance that they may have a negative reaction, but in the long run there is a greater risk to get seriously ill from what (if they had the vaccine ) they would not have gotten. Go ahead prove the majority of the science and medical field wrong, don vaccinate but your kid had better not be around other groups of kids who are vaccinated, just because you take the risk doesn't mean the other children have to be exposed to it.

Yep, it's all about us. You have an infant that's unresponsive mere hours after getting vaccinated, along with a golf ball sized lump at the injection site, and see if you're running to get the rest of the vaccines. There are absolutely no words for that terror.

I don't even try to tell me where my child can or cannot be.

 

[Nikel]

Well, hopefully you won't have to worry like some friends of ours did. They are in the "vaccines are evil" camp and haven't protected their kids. When their middle child was a baby we had an outbreak of Whooping Cough here, and they learned they baby had been exposed. They were worried sick for about a week and basically stayed locked in their house until they thought it was safe for other people to be around their kids.

Nope, I got the worry of having an unresponsive infant. Frankly, after that worrying about catching whooping cough is a walk in the park.

 

[LadyShiva]

Yep, it's all about us. You have an infant that's unresponsive mere hours after getting vaccinated, along with a golf ball sized lump at the injection site, and see if you're running to get the rest of the vaccines. There are absolutely no words for that terror.

I don't even try to tell me where my child can or cannot be.

Honestly, it is valid to tell you to keep your kid away from my kid. Be offended all you want, but the reality is you are making a choice only for your child--you don't get to make a choice for everyone else. When the rest of society is 80% protected, your decision (valid though it may be) to not protect your child against whooping cough and a host of other diseases still comes down to possibly a deadly one for others.

Brandie

 

[katerkat]

Yes, but comparing anecdotal questionable advice give by this individual doctor or that individual doctor to an entire body of medical knowledge on a given subject isn't the same thing. It's doubtful that a room full of pediatricians would have proclaimed that the presence of any saliva in the mouth would automatically rule out dehydration. Ironically, excepting the minority opinion like the bad advice you got from the ER doc is similar to accepting the minority medical opinion that thinks that standard childhood vaccinations should be avoided.

Nah, I was just saying that I don't think ALL doctors are always right. I'd hope that at least one doctor could have diagnosed my son correctly! (It was a nurse, actually, who insisted the poor fellow was dehydrated. Love the ER nurses. Also love the ER doctor who did a splendid job stitching my son's forehead back together.) As for breastfeeding, every single ped on base tells every single mother on base to start solids at four months. Why are they all not following AAP recommendations?

Go ahead prove the majority of the science and medical field wrong, don vaccinate but your kid had better not be around other groups of kids who are vaccinated, just because you take the risk doesn't mean the other children have to be exposed to it.

My son has been exposed to the chicken pox by a child who HAS BEEN VACCINATED. The kid still got the chicken pox and exposed other children to it. And selfish me-me-me has already taken precautions to avoid another neighbor who is pregnant who never had the chicken pox, including leaving an outfit at another friends' house so I can hopefully decontaminate myself enough to go to her baby shower.

 

[Nikel]

I think you're taking a justifiable risk. If your child has a known serious reaction to a vaccination component in the vaccine you're contemplating, why would you vaccinate? Why would anyone push you to vaccinate? It is a calculated risk for the rest of your child's life, but you have an extreme reason to take that risk.

Well, it seems other people are at least as selfish as I am. Clearly I should take the risk to protect their child. Non-vaxing parents get flak for conspiracy theories, but I think vaxers have plenty of their own, like trying to discredit all vaccine reactions and put the blame on something else.

Your decision can always be re-evaluated later, if the justification changes, right? It isn't as if you can never get a shot later in life.

Exactly. I'm not saying no vaxes for anyone ever. Right now, the right decision for us is to indefinitely delay. If/when our situation changes, more research is done, safer vaccines are created, etc, we'll reevaluate. And as my children are old enough to make the decision themselves, they will certainly be able to.