Vaccinations

[Nikel]

Ick, so sorry that nurse said that. That does seem like Wic is against breastfeeding. How frustrating. It makes me so made to hear stories like that. Sorry to hear about the trouble then too, and things are better now.

Oh things are def. better these days. And if I knew she'd still be there, I'd have to go back and let that nurse know that we very successfully made it to 7.5 months before dd had anything besides breastmilk straight from the tap. Then I'd tell her we completely skipped rice cereal, just to watch her get dizzy. And if she was still standing, finish off with making to over 2 years breastfeeding.

Fortunately, I had done my research, so, other than getting mad at the nurse, I just ignored her. It makes me sad and mad for less informed mothers or ones that get bad info from those they should be able to trust to give them correct info. I almost decided to become a midwife and/or lactation consultant, but I decided I just wouldn't be happy with any sort of on call schedule.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

My son currently can't go to preschool at the daycare on base because he's not fully vaccinated. This means I also can't use "parents night out" or "give parents a break" (a program for spouses of deployed service members.) Despite my friends mocking me every month when I have to arrange my own sitter, I still haven't put him in this group setting.

He's been exposed to chicken pox now - by a neighbor kid who had the vaccine and booster! We're currently on pox watch because apparently there was an outbreak at the local elementary school, which several of Russ's friends attend. But he doesn't.

But hey, if he catches it, I just have to get his blood drawn and he'll be allowed to go to the daycare.

There's an outbreak in Spokane?!?! Really?? I'm on my way!!

 

[katerkat]

There's an outbreak in Spokane?!?! Really?? I'm on my way!!

If Russ gets them, I'll meet you halfway.

 

[Crankyshank]

He's been exposed to chicken pox now - by a neighbor kid who had the vaccine and booster! We're currently on pox watch because apparently there was an outbreak at the local elementary school, which several of Russ's friends attend. But he doesn't.

But hey, if he catches it, I just have to get his blood drawn and he'll be allowed to go to the daycare.

Hopefully you'll have better luck exposing him than what happened to me. My friend Ann and I were among the group of 5 3rd graders in all of North Attleboro that did not get the pox during the year long outbreak. It drove our Mothers nuts because we would go from playdate to playdate and nada!

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

If Russ gets them, I'll meet you halfway.

I've heard Moses Lake is lovely this time of year.

 

[LadyShiva]

Okay, so how do reactions fit into all of this? Is it a case of the immune system not being able to handle it? Or something in the vaccine? Or something else entirely? How do I figure out what happened with my dd? I would like to do quite a bit of travel when they're a bit older, and would be more open to reconsidering some vaxes then, but not if I'm risking her life.

It depends. Here's a link I'll pull from: http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/PREVIEW/MMWRHTML/00046738.htm
Weakened virii might make a Herculean effort and cause damage they aren't supposed to be able to cause. An undiagnosed or un-remembered food allergy may also cause an allergic reaction to the vaccine (such as an allergy to eggs). An undiagnosed weakened immune system might also not be able to fight off weakened virii. Lupus and various other diseases might get triggered by the antigen and then go haywire and start attacking the body. A bad batch of vaccines has also been reported.

Go here: http://vaers.hhs.gov/ to see data about reported reactions.

Unfortunately I could share plenty more stories. So it's easy to see why some people are skeptical, even of "trained professionals."

Me, too--which is why I started on the financially unwise path of IBCLC. I got very frustrated with all the poor advice I got. My LC popped a crack on my nipple on her first visit in the hospital, and it went down from there. I had most of my friends thwarted when they tried breastfeeding (one has grand mal seizures, one was told she didn't have mammary glands!), so I just got irritated enough to start reading in order to help us out.

Brandie

 

[Geoff_M]

And I was wondering how long it would be before someone brought up the "conspiracy theory" . . . yes, all of us pediatricians are being paid off beaucoup bucks by those evil vaccine manufacturers to inject autism-causing drugs into your kids . . . our secret is finally out . . .

Deb!!!! Shhhh!!!! You know you're not supposed to talk about that. (Oh, and I was told to pass it on that your check's in the mail!)

Except for novel vaccines like the recently approved Human Papilloma Virus vaccine, there are a heck of a lot better ways to make money in the pharmaceutical business that to make and sell human vaccines. There's a reason the number of players in the vaccine market is so small.

 

[DVCLiz]

Deb!!!! Shhhh!!!! You know you're not supposed to talk about that. (Oh, and I was told to pass it on that your check's in the mail!)

Except for novel vaccines like the recently approved Human Papilloma Virus vaccine, there are a heck of a lot better ways to make money in the pharmaceutical business that to make and sell human vaccines. There's a reason the number of players in the vaccine market is so small.

Why refer to the HPV vaccine as novel? It's not as new as Menactra, according to the list someone posted several pages back. Do you consider that one novel, too?

 

[LadyShiva]

Oh things are def. better these days. And if I knew she'd still be there, I'd have to go back and let that nurse know that we very successfully made it to 7.5 months before dd had anything besides breastmilk straight from the tap. Then I'd tell her we completely skipped rice cereal, just to watch her get dizzy. And if she was still standing, finish off with making to over 2 years breastfeeding.

Fortunately, I had done my research, so, other than getting mad at the nurse, I just ignored her. It makes me sad and mad for less informed mothers or ones that get bad info from those they should be able to trust to give them correct info. I almost decided to become a midwife and/or lactation consultant, but I decided I just wouldn't be happy with any sort of on call schedule.

*chuckle* I once had an ER pediatrician upset at me for choosing to bf at night. And that affected him HOW? I couldn't help but marvel at how uneducated the guy was with regards to breastfeeding. He honestly had no clue about reverse-cycling or the digestion of breastmilk, or even the concept that I was in it for the long haul, so I just needed to survive this "short" period of a lot of nursing. He also couldn't grasp the idea of breastfeeding being more than just food. He 'bout got an earful, so he chickened out and got another (female) doc to come talk to me. She was more respectful, and didn't mess with me about the nursing.

Kiddo also nursed for 2 years (and she bit down every single stinkin' session ), and I'm happy to say ONLY has allergies to peanuts and shellfish--which got diagnosed when I ate them. I'd much rather the allergen have passed through me than her eat them herself. *ugh*

I'm also thankful that her jaw and teeth development were helped by that long a period of nursing. When her two bottom front teeth came in, they came in an inverted v. I noticed the other day they're almost straight! :dancy dance: Daddy and I both had speech therapy as kids (bottle fed munchkins), and DH had to have his jaws broken and re-shaped. I really, truly hope that the nursing helps us avoid that.

There's a ton of good things about nursing your kids... and you can tell I'd be more than happy to tell you ALLLLLL about them...

Brandie

 

[katerkat]

Hopefully you'll have better luck exposing him than what happened to me. My friend Ann and I were among the group of 5 3rd graders in all of North Attleboro that did not get the pox during the year long outbreak. It drove our Mothers nuts because we would go from playdate to playdate and nada!

Sssh, don't tell me that! This would be a good time for him to get them, for me. Two weeks later (since it takes forever to show up!) and he would be sick in WDW. If he doesn't catch it this go-around, he still can't hang out with his friends until we go to WDW - I'm not taking chances!

I've heard Moses Lake is lovely this time of year.

Why yes, I've always wanted to see...the lake.

 

[poohandwendy]

Unfortunately I could share plenty more stories. So it's easy to see why some people are skeptical, even of "trained professionals."

This post isn't directed at the poster quoted, it's more of a general question. I quoted it as reference to a resounding sentiment heard in this type of discussion.

Interesting that we trust the 'trained professionals' when it comes to opening up our chest to transplant a new heart, to diagnose our child when they need it, to see our children on a monthly/yearly basis...but when it comes to vaccinations, their 'training' comes into question. They are just human beings and they don't have all of the facts, or they are not taking into account the risks.

No matter that the CDC, the FDA, the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics all are in agreement when it comes to childhood vaccination recommendations. The training involved, and continual review of scientific findings, in the people who make up these groups is overwhelming. But no, they are probably less informed than Joe Blow internet informed or someone who has obvious anti-vaccination bias writing a book full of theoretical ''evidence''.

Will someone please tell me why we should trust someone writing a book or article about a theory that has not been proven more than the above, highly esteemed, groups?

ETA, I am not saying doctors are infallible, only that the above groups certainly are more informed in this area than the average internet/book researcher.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Will someone please tell me why we should trust someone writing a book or article about a theory that has not been proven more than the above, highly esteemed, groups?

The answer is that you may trust anyone you please. I am confident in my decisions as a parent and in the research I have reviewed. I am also confident in my son's health care provider--his skill in advising me about my options for my son's treatment. The decisions are mine (and my husband's, although he generally defers to me with a bit of explanation) and I am paying for skilled consultation. Nothing more, nothing less. Just because I think he's competent to diagnose an illness (not that he has had to, so far, but I believe he would do a wonderful job if called upon) does not mean I will take everything he says as the gospel truth. Heck, the AAP changes/updates its recommendations all the time. At what point is it okay to throw up my hands and trust everything they say, without doing any research of my own? Knowing they will likely change those policies in a year or two? For me, that time is never!

Oh, and I haven't read a few books or articles. I've read MANY books and MANY (often peer-reviewed medical journal) articles and reviewed a lot of CDC statistics for myself. Even the government-reported information supports my decision in that nothing I've found there is inconsistent with my own beliefs and theories regarding vaccinations.

 

[Deb in IA]

This post isn't directed at the poster quoted, it's more of a general question. I quoted it as reference to a resounding sentiment heard in this type of discussion.

Interesting that we trust the 'trained professionals' when it comes to opening up our chest to transplant a new heart, to diagnose our child when they need it, to see our children on a monthly/yearly basis...but when it comes to vaccinations, their 'training' comes into question. They are just human beings and they don't have all of the facts, or they are not taking into account the risks.

No matter that the CDC, the FDA, the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics all are in agreement when it comes to childhood vaccination recommendations. The training involved, and continual review of scientific findings, in the people who make up these groups is overwhelming. But no, they are probably less informed than Joe Blow internet informed or someone who has obvious anti-vaccination bias writing a book full of theoretical ''evidence''.

Will someone please tell me why we should trust someone writing a book or article about a theory that has not been proven more than the above, highly esteemed, groups?

 

[poohandwendy]

Knowing they will likely change those policies in a year or two? For me, that time is never!

Then why follow any of their policies at all?

Parents are considering themselves laymen medical professionals and IMO, that isn't a very good idea.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Then why follow any of their policies at all?

Parents are considering themselves laymen medical professionals and IMO, that isn't a very good idea.

I don't follow their policies. I research every single medical decision for my son, making no assumptions at the outset. I don't rely 100% on any book, chart, or doctor. In fact, many of the things I do are probably contrary to "their" rules (whoever "they" may be). I don't give a rip, as I know I am doing what's best for my child. That is my only concern!

 

[Nikel]

This post isn't directed at the poster quoted, it's more of a general question. I quoted it as reference to a resounding sentiment heard in this type of discussion.

Interesting that we trust the 'trained professionals' when it comes to opening up our chest to transplant a new heart, to operate on our child when they need it, to see our children on a monthly/yearly basis...but when it comes to vaccinations, their 'training' comes into question. They are just human beings and they don't have all of the facts, or they are not taking into account the risks.

I know you said this isn't directed at me specifically, but since you did quote me, I'll respond. Why are you assuming vaccines are the only issue I question Drs on? Did you read the rest of the posts in the string of quotes that the quote relates to? The biggest issue I've had bad info on was breastfeeding, but it's most certainly not the only issue. I am extremely choosy about my Drs. We went through several before I found one I trusted and respected that also respected me. And that's just for check-ups and illnesses. I spent a ton of time researching before I decided on natural childbirth at a birth center. I know more about childbirth than my friend that just finished her nursing rotation on l&d, and there's still a lot that I don't know. If one of use needed surgery, I'd first get 2-3 opinions from other Drs that surgery was the best route and well as explore any possible non-surgical alternatives. Then I'd have to research and interview several surgeons before going ahead with it. Assuming, of course, I can take the time to do it. In life or death situations, I'd just have to roll with it and hope for the best.

 

[Minniemouse07]

This post isn't directed at the poster quoted, it's more of a general question. I quoted it as reference to a resounding sentiment heard in this type of discussion.

Interesting that we trust the 'trained professionals' when it comes to opening up our chest to transplant a new heart, to diagnose our child when they need it, to see our children on a monthly/yearly basis...but when it comes to vaccinations, their 'training' comes into question. They are just human beings and they don't have all of the facts, or they are not taking into account the risks.

No matter that the CDC, the FDA, the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics all are in agreement when it comes to childhood vaccination recommendations. The training involved, and continual review of scientific findings, in the people who make up these groups is overwhelming. But no, they are probably less informed than Joe Blow internet informed or someone who has obvious anti-vaccination bias writing a book full of theoretical ''evidence''.

Will someone please tell me why we should trust someone writing a book or article about a theory that has not been proven more than the above, highly esteemed, groups?

I pick my health care providers VERY carefully. I don't blindly trust ANY of them... and have left multiple providers because they decided to tell me what to do instead of discussing options. My current health providers work with me and respect the information that I bring to the table and I respect theirs.

Ds needs surgery. We have known this since his birth (he is now 21mo). It is not life threatening, but needs to be done. We have consulted w/ one surgeon, but are in the midst of gathering more info and looking for one or two other surgeons to consult with before proceding. I am NOT relying on just the surgeon's info, but doing my research and choosing a surgeon that I can be on the same page with.

FWIW, I don't agree w/ the AAP on many issues, including cosleeping and "mandatory" vaccinations. It doesn't mean I think they are wrong about everything, I just have a difference of opinion on a few topics.

As "trained" professionals ...medical providers are limited by their training. They don't know everything (if I had a dollar for every parent that shared their pediatrician's opinion about car seat safety...I'm a CPST... I'd be rich!) and they never will. I prefer to work w/ those that realize this and honor that I have a brain as well!

 

[poohandwendy]

Oh, and I haven't read a few books or articles. I've read MANY books and MANY (often peer-reviewed medical journal) articles and reviewed a lot of CDC statistics for myself. Even the government-reported information supports my decision in that nothing I've found there is inconsistent with my own beliefs and theories regarding vaccinations.

Do you honestly believe that you have the educational background and resources to draw a more scientifically sound conclusion of the evidence than the CDC, FDA, AMA and AAP?

 

[meandtheguys2]

PAW, I think that the medical community is very good at dealing with acute issues, whether they be broken arms or heart attacks. In those emergency situations, I really have no choice but to hope and pray that the doctors involved know what they are doing.

However, doctors are human. And standard treatments do change. The standard treatment for alcoholics when my dad began seeing them as an internist was thorazine. He killed three men with thorazine, following standard procedure. He then started one of the first detox centers in the USA. There was a better way to treat this issue.

My mother was given a medication (can't think which) throughout her pregnancy to deal with nausea. It more than likely caused the issues that later killed my brother.

The medical community is notorious for fighting change. Especially if the changes decrease the influence/power of said community.

People don't trust the medical community because of issues like this. I was raised in hospitals (and thank God for nurses that put up with us!) I don't hate the medical community, but I do believe that people should gather information, and deal with it on an individual basis. I stated earlier my kids are not vaccinated due to genetic concerns. Had I just followed the standard protocol, I have a statistically higher than normal chance that something catastrophic could have occured. They've been given homeopathic tetnus treatments, and have built an immunity. I know that to be a fact. Thankfully my DO knows it too, and doesn't see it as a challenge to his ego! How many here would say it was impossible, though? Probably even with the reports in hand. People don't want to believe that there are realities apart from their own. FWIW.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Do you honestly believe that you have the educational background and resources to draw a more scientifically sound conclusion of the evidence than the CDC, FDA, AMA and AAP?

I work w/ scientific research every day. I know how to read it and interpret it... so yes I'm qualified.

But... even if I didn't work in the scientific community. Just because I don't have a medical degree doesn't mean I don't have a brain, or can't do research and learn what I need to to make the decisions that are right for my family.