Vacationing with a friend and her kid is a nightmare!

[HopperFan]

So sorry, it's never to fun to come home from a vacation that turns out this way but the fact that you gifted her the trip, that makes it so much harder. My own instinct would be to have a cooling off period for you to feel better and her to have some time to absorb that her allowance of this behavior is not cool. The longer she ignores it, the harder it will be to control it. No matter the reason (and I have a child with special needs and he would have been dealt with just like my other kids, even more so that he learns early expectations) the behavior was unacceptable. My kids are grown now and I have found out that just because the parents are good friends or even relatives, it does not mean that the parenting style will be the same and sometimes those relationships change ... because your children come first. We've even had situations where the kids all got along well until a certain age and then focus changes and they were no longer interested in being together. This may be one where it's best for you to do adult girls days/nights (which she may greatly appreciate) or if the DHs are friendly, couples nights. It is not on you to entertain her children.

After a couple "less than ideal" vacations with others I am finally at a good place with those:
- Keep them infrequent because vacations are truly for our family.
- Never travel together in a car, everyone finds their own rides.
- Never stay in the same house or condo with them.
- If at a place like Disney, stay at different resorts. Resort time is for my family.
- Set up a time each morning when all will meet and where. No waiting around for someone.
- PLAN meals together and meals apart.
- Always have a way back to your lodging at the end of the day as everyone poops out at different times.
- If possible add time in front of or behind the group trip for your own family time.

 

[sarcasticblonde]

I find it interesting that so many people are saying this child might have ADHD or comparing her to a child that has Asperger's. Maybe she's just a brat. Maybe her mom doesn't discipline her. Everyone is always so quick to label a child with an issue. Sometimes kids are just annoying and hateful. And yes, I'm a mom with 2 children (an almost 2 year old and a 5 year old).

 

[crisi]

I find it interesting that so many people are saying this child might have ADHD or comparing her to a child that has Asperger's. Maybe she's just a brat. Maybe her mom doesn't discipline her. Everyone is always so quick to label a child with an issue. Sometimes kids are just annoying and hateful. And yes, I'm a mom with 2 children (an almost 2 year old and a 5 year old).

I'm a mom with teenagers. You know what I've realized - if your kid has a disability (and my daughter has ADHD and anxiety, my son has some ODD), you are responsible for controlling the environments they are in. YOU say "gee, that is an awesome invitation, and I really appreciate it, but Becca's issues means she really acts out when overstimulated. We are going to have to pass so as not to ruin your vacation. Maybe in a few years, she'll have developed some more control." The two that ruined our vacation were on the autism spectrum - but it wasn't the kids that ruined the vacation - it was the mom who stretched her kids far past their limits while continuing to hang onto our family like barnacles even when it was becoming problematic. She was responsible for saying "my kids aren't up to that, we are going to go back to Fantasyland while your kids ride The Haunted Mansion."

And as to ruining friendships - I have a former friend who was uninvited to family parties at our house because she let her special needs children run wild over my home, pick on other kids, and then said "well, they are special needs." I'm sure that's going to go over with the judge when they are adults.

In other words, special needs is a reason, it isn't an excuse. And as a reason, its a good reason to say "that isn't a good idea for my kid."

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I find it interesting that so many people are saying this child might have ADHD or comparing her to a child that has Asperger's. Maybe she's just a brat. Maybe her mom doesn't discipline her. Everyone is always so quick to label a child with an issue. Sometimes kids are just annoying and hateful. And yes, I'm a mom with 2 children (an almost 2 year old and a 5 year old).

I have to agree with this. I have a son with autism who has never, ever acted out toward or hurt other people. He has had meltdowns and tantrums and has other internalized behavioral issues, but wouldn't hurt a fly. To jump to the conclusion that this child must have ADHD or autism because of a description of physically hurtful and destructive behavior is doing quite a disservice to the special needs community. It's a stereotype that has no basis in statistics or science. There are many typically children who are poorly behaved as well!

That being said, as a mom who has worked with a behaviorist for years, I would suggest this mom really needs some professional support from a behavioral therapist, a psychologist or social worker. I would imagine she is stressed out and it's ok to ask for and seek help! Shutting down and ignoring the behavior will not help her child or her family. Because my son has autism, I actually had the benefit of learning behavior modification techniques from a professional. There is a function behind every behavior. If that little girl learned she gets her way when she acts like that, than she will continue to act like that. She needs to learn that that kind of behavior will not yield results.

I am so sorry you had such a bad trip. It really does sound awful. If you do continue your friendship with her, you may want to tell her that you noticed she is stressed and should maybe seek some support in working to modify the behavior of her child.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I'm a mom with teenagers. You know what I've realized - if your kid has a disability (and my daughter has ADHD and anxiety, my son has some ODD), you are responsible for controlling the environments they are in. YOU say "gee, that is an awesome invitation, and I really appreciate it, but Becca's issues means she really acts out when overstimulated. We are going to have to pass so as not to ruin your vacation. Maybe in a few years, she'll have developed some more control." The two that ruined our vacation were on the autism spectrum - but it wasn't the kids that ruined the vacation - it was the mom who stretched her kids far past their limits while continuing to hang onto our family like barnacles even when it was becoming problematic. She was responsible for saying "my kids aren't up to that, we are going to go back to Fantasyland while your kids ride The Haunted Mansion."

And as to ruining friendships - I have a former friend who was uninvited to family parties at our house because she let her special needs children run wild over my home, pick on other kids, and then said "well, they are special needs." I'm sure that's going to go over with the judge when they are adults.

In other words, special needs is a reason, it isn't an excuse. And as a reason, its a good reason to say "that isn't a good idea for my kid."

I agree. I believe it's a disservice to any child to excuse their behavior instead of working with them to change it, whether they are special needs or neurotypical. My goal is for my DS to be an independently functioning, contributing member of the community. Ignoring and excusing negative behavior will never achieve these goals. It's not good for him. It's not good for anyone. As his mom, I know his limits (and he is now able to recognize and express his limits as well) and I plan our outings and vacations accordingly so everyone, including the people around us, can have a good time.

 

[My2CrazyGirls]

I'm a mom with teenagers. You know what I've realized - if your kid has a disability (and my daughter has ADHD and anxiety, my son has some ODD), you are responsible for controlling the environments they are in. YOU say "gee, that is an awesome invitation, and I really appreciate it, but Becca's issues means she really acts out when overstimulated. We are going to have to pass so as not to ruin your vacation. Maybe in a few years, she'll have developed some more control." The two that ruined our vacation were on the autism spectrum - but it wasn't the kids that ruined the vacation - it was the mom who stretched her kids far past their limits while continuing to hang onto our family like barnacles even when it was becoming problematic. She was responsible for saying "my kids aren't up to that, we are going to go back to Fantasyland while your kids ride The Haunted Mansion."

And as to ruining friendships - I have a former friend who was uninvited to family parties at our house because she let her special needs children run wild over my home, pick on other kids, and then said "well, they are special needs." I'm sure that's going to go over with the judge when they are adults.

In other words, special needs is a reason, it isn't an excuse. And as a reason, its a good reason to say "that isn't a good idea for my kid."

I agree with this!

 

[My2CrazyGirls]

I agree. I believe it's a disservice to any child to excuse their behavior instead of working with them to change it, whether they are special needs or neurotypical. My goal is for my DS to be an independently functioning, contributing member of the community. Ignoring and excusing negative behavior will never achieve these goals. It's not good for him. It's not good for anyone. As his mom, I know his limits (and he is now able to recognize and express his limits as well) and I plan our outings and vacations accordingly so everyone, including the people around us, can have a good time.

I do agree special needs (whatever they may be) should not be used as an excuse. I can't speak for others, but when I mentioned there may be more going on here with this kiddo, I did not do so as to give an excuse. But it does give a reason other than "bad parenting." If you have a child with behavior challenges it doesn't mean you are bad parent and caused the issues. There are reasons children have difficulties and those reasons should not be ignored. This mom needs to figure out quickly what strategies work to help her child. She also needs to figure out what types of situations to avoid that are setting her girl off.

 

[crisi]

I do agree special needs (whatever they may be) should not be used as an excuse. I can't speak for others, but when I mentioned there may be more going on here with this kiddo, I did not do so as to give an excuse. But it does give a reason other than "bad parenting." If you have a child with behavior challenges it doesn't mean you are bad parent and caused the issues. There are reasons children have difficulties and those reasons should not be ignored. This mom needs to figure out quickly what strategies work to help her child. She also needs to figure out what types of situations to avoid that are setting her girl off.

There are bad parents, but bad parenting isn't to blame for everything. With a kid with some ODD, and who has some impulsive behavior, all the good parenting in the world wouldn't have kept him out of every scrape and idiot thing he's done. As as they become teenagers, you have less and less control over every minute of their day. Kids make mistakes. They grow more responsible over time with guidance - or you hope they do. Good parents will help make a challenging kid more responsible, but good parenting isn't a cure all for every situation.

 

[crisi]

There are bad parents, but bad parenting isn't to blame for everything. With a kid with some ODD, and who has some impulsive behavior, all the good parenting in the world wouldn't have kept him out of every scrape and idiot thing he's done. As as they become teenagers, you have less and less control over every minute of their day. Kids make mistakes. They grow more responsible over time with guidance - or you hope they do. Good parents will help make a challenging kid more responsible, but good parenting isn't a cure all for every situation.

I also want to say that some of the sweetest kids that my kids knew when they were young became the kids I don't want them around now that they are teenagers. And some of the kids that I could barely stand have become some of the best teenagers. (And there is that one kid that all along has been destined for juvie - he's been and it didn't help). This is one of those parenting karma things where you shouldn't ever blame a kid's parents unless its pretty egregious - because someday you may be explaining why the sixteen year old boys got drunk in YOUR basement when you weren't home - or how it was that your kid was caught in a car with enough toilet paper for a stadium and twenty dozen eggs.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I know my daughter isnt perfect either, and I did discipline her when she acted up. Friend's child is manipulating the mom because mom allows it. there were plenty of time when i had both girls in a line by myself or when mom was showering and she was sweet as pie. As soon as mom came back it's like a switch flipped. And mom just writes it off, says "She doesn't understand.. " But she us old enough to understand, and she isn't cognitively challenged, she is just pushing her limits and mom does nothing.

My friend says she doesn't like to hear her child cry, so she just gives in. The one time she really put her foot down and intervened, my friend burst into tears because she said she didnt want to hurt her kid's feelings. Im like, hello?? What about the 9 month old crying because sister kicked her in the face? What about my daughter crying because she is covered in red welts from the scratching?

 

[alicat8]

I also want to say that some of the sweetest kids that my kids knew when they were young became the kids I don't want them around now that they are teenagers. And some of the kids that I could barely stand have become some of the best teenagers. (And there is that one kid that all along has been destined for juvie - he's been and it didn't help). This is one of those parenting karma things where you shouldn't ever blame a kid's parents unless its pretty egregious - because someday you may be explaining why the sixteen year old boys got drunk in YOUR basement when you weren't home - or how it was that your kid was caught in a car with enough toilet paper for a stadium and twenty dozen eggs.

To me, ignoring the fact that your child is hurting another child is pretty egregious. This sounds like the perfect situation to judge another person's parenting skills. If she were trying or saying SOMETHING, that would be a different story. There is no excuse for allowing your child to stay in a situation where she's hurting people.

 

[ariane37]

OP's post brought me back to when my oldest DS, now 13, was 18 months old. He began acting out with other children, including children of my very close friends that he'd been around since birth. He became a biter: he bit adults but usually just nipped us because we could move quickly! In one instance he bit the crap out of my best friends' sons'
cheek. He was the same age as DS. DS was hugging him good-bye at the end of a playdate and all of a sudden-quick as a flash - the bite. In another instance another close friend from college and I were in the mall, her son and mine in strollers side by side while we ordered lunch. When my friend looked down she realized my son had dug his fingernails REALLY DEEP into her sons cheek and drawn blood. In both cases I was completely mortified. MORTIFIED! And scared, and I cried, there were more instances but thank God not with good friends (we did get kicked out of a Mommy and Me for biting though, that was fun). He was so damn fast no matter how close I stayed to him! I would sneeze and in that 5 seconds he'd reach out for the nearest kid and hurt them. I called our Dr. numerous times. The weird thing was that he was so happy to play with kids and would laugh with them, hug them, etc. Long story short lol, he needed speech. He was frustrated b/c nobody could understand him and he had such a hard time getting his point across (except to me since I was around him 24/7). His IQ was/is very high and the combination of high IQ and low articulation ability caused the biting/aggression. After a few months of speech the biting stopped. Lucky for me my 2 friends stuck by me, although we did go through a period of less playdates which I totally understood. Today my son is a happy, friendly, sweet, caring, smart kid with no aggression issues lol!

I guess my point here is that I DID feel horrible about his behavior and repeatedly apologized for it in addition to trying many things to get him to stop. And most likely because I did all that my friends supported me and stood by me (both of those boys he hurt are very close friends of his today. They joke about what he did to them and yes I realize it's not funny. Certainly wasn't funny to me 11 years ago!) So I want to say don't put all the blame on the mom, or the child......but I just can't understand the mom not taking any responsibility for her child's actions. But we all know everyone parents differently and like others have said, that's why vacationing with friends isn't always the best idea. Unfortunately sometimes we find out too late

 

[crisi]

To me, ignoring the fact that your child is hurting another child is pretty egregious. This sounds like the perfect situation to judge another person's parenting skills. If she were trying or saying SOMETHING, that would be a different story. There is no excuse for allowing your child to stay in a situation where she's hurting people.

I agree and have said so.

 

[scoobygrl79]

I brought my friend because she was able to use DHs ticket and her kids were free. I paid everything except their food for the trip. We had a townhouse, so we slept in separate rooms. I invited her because I didnt realize what a nightmare her daughter would be. My friend was embarassed but honestly she doesn't handle stress well and just kind of shuts down and pretends it isnt happening.

We made it home intact. i did have my friend remove her daughter's shoes and leave them off because she was repeatedly kicking my child. She kicks her baby sister too, but i guess friend is ok with that.

Friends daughter spent about 5 hours of the 13 hour drive screaming and yelling and crying and kicking. I need a stiff drink.

I'm so glad its all over for you, OP. I'm sure you were feeling like

 

[ajwolfe]

The biggest reason I invited them was because I am uncomfortable traveling alone, especially for such a long drive.

The kid's mom is a dear friend, and I love her children. I knew her daughter could throw fits now and again, but I have never seen it this bad. I guess I didn't think this through properly. I wont be traveling with other families anymore.

I just want to offer you some sympathy. I've been in the same spot and it's hard. I always hoped the kid would get better each time and eventually he is. But it can put a strain on the friendship!

 

[Ladygoldenhair]

After a couple "less than ideal" vacations with others I am finally at a good place with those:
- Keep them infrequent because vacations are truly for our family.
- Never travel together in a car, everyone finds their own rides.
- Never stay in the same house or condo with them.
- If at a place like Disney, stay at different resorts. Resort time is for my family.
- Set up a time each morning when all will meet and where. No waiting around for someone.
- PLAN meals together and meals apart.
- Always have a way back to your lodging at the end of the day as everyone poops out at different times.
- If possible add time in front of or behind the group trip for your own family time.

These are excellent tips for anyone considering taking others on their vacation! I took a gal I grew up with and we are seniors now, and I remember most about vacation, I'll never bring her again! She was clueless to get around on her own for my family to have our time. Insecure to get back to the housing when she was done and we were not.

I'm a mom with teenagers. You know what I've realized - if your kid has a disability (and my daughter has ADHD and anxiety, my son has some ODD), you are responsible for controlling the environments they are in. YOU say "gee, that is an awesome invitation, and I really appreciate it, but Becca's issues means she really acts out when overstimulated. We are going to have to pass so as not to ruin your vacation.

In other words, special needs is a reason, it isn't an excuse. And as a reason, its a good reason to say "that isn't a good idea for my kid."

Nail on the head!

 

[MommyMeNDisney]

Friends daughter spent about 5 hours of the 13 hour drive screaming and yelling and crying and kicking. I need a stiff drink.

Holy cow, I bet you DID need a stiff drink!!! I feel bad for you and your DD.

THIS is why I travel alone! A friend wants to take a Disney cruise with DS and me, with park days on each end of the cruise. I was hesitant, because I didn't want to ruin a friendship by vacationing together. However, I agreed to plan it. Her DD is 4 months older than my DS (1), so we would both have 2 year olds at the time of travel. I've never spent more than three hours with her and her DD at one time. With babies this young, we don't have a lot of time for socializing. So, I don't know how her DD behaves. After reading this...no thanks, I'll pass!

I'm taking DS to WDW this year instead, just the two of us! I'm driving. It's about 8 hours, but I'll do most of the driving while DS is asleep and make stops (to allow him to run around a bit and get out of the car seat).

Thank you for reminding me why I don't vacation with friends...and some family members too!!!

 

[crisi]

Holy cow, I bet you DID need a stiff drink!!! I feel bad for you and your DD.

THIS is why I travel alone! A friend wants to take a Disney cruise with DS and me, with park days on each end of the cruise. I was hesitant, because I didn't want to ruin a friendship by vacationing together. However, I agreed to plan it. Her DD is 4 months older than my DS (1), so we would both have 2 year olds at the time of travel. I've never spent more than three hours with her and her DD at one time. With babies this young, we don't have a lot of time for socializing. So, I don't know how her DD behaves. After reading this...no thanks, I'll pass!

I'm taking DS to WDW this year instead, just the two of us! I'm driving. It's about 8 hours, but I'll do most of the driving while DS is asleep and make stops (to allow him to run around a bit and get out of the car seat).

Thank you for reminding me why I don't vacation with friends...and some family members too!!!

Cruises for the toddler set can be tough. They are too young to use the kids clubs, but many of them really want to and hate being told they are too little. The splash areas and toddler pools are crowded. Dinner in the dining rooms is four courses long.

Its an awesome vacation when they can do the kids clubs - they are busy, you get some time, and there is plenty of family time too.

 

[powellrj]

I took the kids to Kings Island once with a neighbor and we spent the night. It was a real eyeopener for me. I never realized how much other peoples lives were different than ours.

I was a working mom with 3 active kids and she was a stay at home single mom to one. We were a family that had to live with a plan and everyone had to be on board. Because they had a more laid back lifestyle, they were much more flexible.

I knew we were going to have a big day the next day so we ate and went to bed. My DD and I were asleep and she got the boys up and they went back to the park until closing. You can guess what happened. DD and I were up and ready to go and she and the boys were tired and didn't want to go to the parks until later. The bathrooms were another thing. We stopped at the bathrooms when we passed them and you tired weather you had to go or not. They never went with us and then would have to leave lines to go. Meals were the same way. You eat when everyone eats, but they would pick at their food and then want to stop all the time to snack. I am sure she thought I was really uptight, but when you are a family of 5, you have to be more of a group. Because it was just the 2 of them, they were use to doing what they wanted when they wanted and its easy when you don't have to worry about 3 other people.

While I envied that fact that they could be more freestyle than our family, I knew it would never work for us.

Now that the kids are getting older, DH and I are now just 2 travelers and we can go more freestyle!

 

[nugov2]

So you are saying she is making poor parenting decisions and therefore deserves to have an out of control child as a consequence? Did you think this before the wdw vacation? If so, why did you invite them?

I understand you want to protect your child of course. I am just confused. Does this girl hit your kid on playdates? If so why would you take them to WDW????

This was my thinking. I am assuming (and I haven't read the whole thread ) that you must spend a lot of time with her to invite them on an all expense paid trip. So obviously she can't misbehave that bad and there must be something going on. Could be the heat/lack of sleep/ new environment situation causing her to act in a way not typical. This is a 2 1/2 yr old we are talking about and she slip still developing and finding her way. To cut off the mom because of it seems extreme and honestly quite harsh. Maybe this is the time the mom could use a little support. Now that doesn't excuse the actions and the other mom should be taking more control, but maybe she is allowing things to fly because she is stressed and embarrassed. Doesn't make it right, but also doesn't mean you should phase her out of your life. I just find it hard to believe this child is always like this and you'd invite them on a trip so IMO you should express your disappointment in the broken items(and hopefully she'll do the right thing and replace them), but also extend a little compassion too.