*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[BuckeyeBama]

I know they could. But I still fee the way I do about it. It's hard for bigger families to afford onsite accommodations.

Agreed, but it is a choice of the consumer, not Disney. And there are families that will never be able to afford a day at Six Flags, so throwing that into the discussion changes nothing for me.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney wants 200,000 or so people in the parks on a busy day. It's 25,000 hotel rooms cannot handle that many people. So Disney knows that the majority of people in the parks on busy days will be staying off site. Just saying "stay on site" doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Agreed. Disney NEEDS people willing to stay offsite. They don't want to be the only game in town. Or they would have to be happy with 1) the parks having less visitors or 2) building more hotels that will only be occupied during peak seasons. They need other offsite hotels taking the hit in the off season.

Agreed, but it is a choice of the consumer, not Disney. And there are families that will never be able to afford a day at Six Flags, so throwing that into the discussion changes nothing for me.

OK. But maybe it changes the discussion for others.

 

[*disgal*]

I will be at MK in three weeks. I will be on the rides all morning, while well-prepared off-site guests who spent thousands more on their trips than me are standing at kiosks for the fifth or sixth morning in a row on their dream trips to Disney. That's just not Disney magic to me. I did not mind when extra effort reaped rewards, but I feel for everyone who booked a Disney vacation not knowing they would be treated this way. I am not happy they get to be test subjects during spring break.

Well. That is very nice of you, KatieCharlotte. I appreciate that.

I figure Disney should at least give me a T-shirt out of the deal. It could say, "I survived Disney FP+ Testing!" ....with a picture of a guinea pig.

They could decide to stay on-site. Just like Universal Studios, staying on-site is beginning to have real advantages.

Well, thanks for that, lol, but you do realize that 1) if every single offsite guest wanted to stay onsite, not only would there NOT be enough rooms, the room YOU wanted might possibly be gone and 2) this is just temporary for the offsite person. Now the amount of days ahead you are given to schedule your fps might be different in the future for onsite/offsite but both will be able to schedule ahead of time eventually. But for offsite 2014 spring breakers, it's going to be different for us probably more than at any other time in WDW's history.

 

[jade1]

Disney wants 200,000 or so people in the parks on a busy day. It's 25,000 hotel rooms cannot handle that many people. So Disney knows that the majority of people in the parks on busy days will be staying off site. Just saying "stay on site" doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Just like saying "arrive at RD to maximize FP-" doesn't get anyone anywhere either, it just can't be done and wouldn't work if everyone could get there. So Disney knows the majority of people in the parks will arrive between noon and 2PM and decided to switch to FP+.

 

[*disgal*]

Agreed, but it is a choice of the consumer, not Disney. And there are families that will never be able to afford a day at Six Flags, so throwing that into the discussion changes nothing for me.

Fortunately, Disney doesn't feel like you do.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I figure Disney should at least give me a T-shirt out of the deal. It could say, "I survived Disney FP+ Testing!" ....with a picture of a guinea pig.

Don't forget your limited edition St Patrick's Day holiday ears!!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I certainly hope the disboards is not going to be "Is it better yet?" "how 'bout now"... for the next 10 years.

You can hope... magic 8 ball says "outlook not so good" on that one...

I know that I am not mourning the loss of FP-. I'm going to make FP+ work as well for our family as possible. If I had to bet, I would bet on Disney being more successful in five years than it is today. Pretty safe bet if you analyze company history.

I expect tweaks to MDX and FP+ -- some we may like, some we may not, but they'll be made to optimize the experience for most guests, because that is ultimately how they grow the bottom line. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I worry about any company that doesn't innovate and evolve over time, even if a vocal minority isn't thrilled.

I still wonder how much business Disney is actually going to lose, even among the self-selected uber-FP-user group here. Many of the most vocal critics still appear to be here, on an unofficial Disney board, daily talking about all of it. Anecdotes like "we'll go less often" or "more days in Universal for us!" abound, but I still wonder how much lost revenue this will REALLY result in from these folks.

We're not 100% thrilled with FP+ as it stands. We're not changing any travel plans because of it. I suspect that this is going to be a more common response than long-timers ACTUALLY significantly deminishing their Disney spending. JMHO.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I still wonder how much business Disney is actually going to lose, even among the self-selected uber-FP-user group here. Many of the most vocal critics still appear to be here, on an unofficial Disney board, daily talking about all of it. Anecdotes like "we'll go less often" or "more days in Universal for us!" abound, but I still wonder how much lost revenue this will REALLY result in from these folks.

I see this all the time. People act like the DIS is the only place the uber-users speak up. It's EVERYWHERE* you look, not just here.

*except the Disney Parks Blog where everything that isn't shiny and sparkly is deleted.

 

[WillAustin]

I see this all the time. People act like the DIS is the only place the uber-users speak up. It's EVERYWHERE* you look, not just here.

*except the Disney Parks Blog where everything that isn't shiny and sparkly is deleted.

Everywhere. Even the CMs at the parks are tired of facing the issues and complaints.

 

[2Tiggies]

I see this all the time. People act like the DIS is the only place the uber-users speak up. It's EVERYWHERE* you look, not just here.

*except the Disney Parks Blog where everything that isn't shiny and sparkly is deleted.

You said it! You can google any Disney forums and they are all having similar discussions to what we are over here. The DIS may be the largest trip planning forum for all things Disney, but it's by no means the only one. Even WDW's own FB page reviews are peppered with similar complaints and expressions of dissatisfaction, as has been referred to many times over the last month or so.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I see this all the time. People act like the DIS is the only place the uber-users speak up. It's EVERYWHERE* you look, not just here.

*except the Disney Parks Blog where everything that isn't shiny and sparkly is deleted.

Yes. Everywhere on discussion forums and in social media - or even in the parks, people who are unhappy are likely to express that unhappiness LOUDLY and OFTEN. Human nature for those like me or those who *gasp* like FP+ to be more likely to keep quiet and not bother chiming in.

Disney collects feedback via random sampling -- the only thing anyone should draw any real conclusions from. What is said after a blog post or on here is completely unrepresentative of the population. Statistical fact, not opinion.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Everywhere. Even the CMs at the parks are tired of facing the issues and complaints.

The ONE day we stepped foot in the parks back in SEPTEMBER the CMs were complaining to us about it. And it was NOTHING like is going on there now. The CM at TT was pretty adamant about it. I really feel sorry for THAT guy.

 

[Shaden]

It really is not a big deal.



You do realize it's not going to get "better", right? Better in the sense that you used to be able to go on way more than anyone else because you used FP- and they didn't. Adding more FP+'s will not help your waits. Because they will add more for everyone. So you get one more FP+, so will every other guest visiting the park. If they un-tier - it will be untiered for everyone.

I don't think ppl understand that tweaking the specifics of FP+ is *never* going to get you back to the days where you had a leg up on most less-knowing guests and therefore you got to ride substantially more than them

I certainly hope the disboards is not going to be "Is it better yet?" "how 'bout now"... for the next 10 years. It will never be like FP-. This is the realization we, as ex-fp-masters must accept. We can work w/in the new limits or just complain forever. I support whichever path you want to do. Want to complain for the next 10 years? Have at it! But do know that it will be for naught as Disney is not going to revert FP+ back down to a system only a minority of their crowds used. Those days are gone.

A) for some of us, it really IS a big deal.

B) I totally disagree. There is a good chance the system will develop in a way that will still allow First timers or once in a life timers to take better advantage of it ... and still allow the "pros" to maximize.

The options kicking around in the FP+ changes survey, certainly open this option.

The "Hold three at any time" option, and the "continue to pick FPs after you use all 3" option would both allow the FP Maximizers to do so with the new system.

Heck the both those options are a lot closer to FP- than the current roll out.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Yes. Everywhere on discussion forums and in social media, people who are unhappy are likely to express that unhappiness LOUDLY and OFTEN. Human nature for those like me or those who *gasp* like FP+ to be more likely to keep quiet and not bother chiming in.

Disney collects feedback via random sampling -- the only thing anyone should draw any real conclusions from. What is said after a blog post or on here is completely unrepresentative of the population. Statistical fact, not opinion.

What about news articles about it, like the recent one on MSN? Should those complaints be taken seriously?

Should they random sample their own employee's opinions that are dealing with it on the front line or should they just take the bubbly response to what Martha had to say about it on the DIS boards?

 

[Shaden]

Yes. Everywhere on discussion forums and in social media - or even in the parks, people who are unhappy are likely to express that unhappiness LOUDLY and OFTEN. Human nature for those like me or those who *gasp* like FP+ to be more likely to keep quiet and not bother chiming in.

Disney collects feedback via random sampling -- the only thing anyone should draw any real conclusions from. What is said after a blog post or on here is completely unrepresentative of the population. Statistical fact, not opinion.

Actually, that is the definition of opinion, since you don't actually have any collected statistics to support your claim.

So, there is that.

While, generally marking/customer service studies -generally- agree with your theory, they refer to unsolicited open customer commentary, not comments on fan boards, or on social media. And that literature is also careful to note that it is not a universal truth.

So, um yea. Not fact, just your opinion/guess.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

What about news articles about it, like the recent one on MSN? Should those complaints be taken seriously?

Should they random sample their own employee's opinions that are dealing with it on the front line or should they just take the bubbly response to what Martha had to say about it on the DIS boards?

Uh, no... they shouldn't weight Martha's bubbly response any more than they should take someone else's highly acerbic rant against it. They should randomly sample their guests and draw conclusions the way any rational statistician or business person would.

If those MSN articles are picking up on something that is IN FACT significant, it will also be picked up in random sampling.

Frustration during rollout of anything new -- among guests who experience problems or among their staff -- is to be expected. It would be odd if this wasn't happening with such a major change.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Actually, that is the definition of opinion, since you don't actually have any collected statistics to support your claim.

So, there is that.

While, generally marking/customer service studies -generally- agree with your theory, they refer to unsolicited open customer commentary, not comments on fan boards, or on social media. And that literature is also careful to note that it is not a universal truth.

So, um yea. Not fact, just your opinion/guess.

I don't understand your post at all. Not sure what my opinion was -- that Disney uses random sampling? Or that random sampling is the only thing that is truly informative regarding an entire population?

 

[Mad Hattered]

Uh, no... they should weight Martha's bubbly response any more than they should take someone else's highly acerbic rant against it. They should randomly sample their guests and draw conclusions the way any rational statistician or business person would.

If those MSN articles are picking up on something that is IN FACT significant, it will also be picked up in random sampling.

Frustration during rollout of anything new -- among guests who experience problems or among their staff -- is to be expected. It would be odd if this wasn't happening with such a major change.

Would you agree that the most useful data could be collected by interviewing their front line CMs that are dealing with this less than stellar roll out?

 

[Shaden]

That matters a ton. Because you got to go on significantly less, more other ppl got to go on a little more. It's not like the rides just started servicing fewer ppl. The same number of ppl are getting on the ride... it's just less you and more other ppl. It's a transition from a few ppl utilizing a big benefit to many ppl utilizing a smaller benefit.

Now, I generally agree with this, BUT, I wonder how this works out in conjunction with other factors .

If, as we were talking about earlier, Disney has guests fall under some sort of 80/20 rule. Repeat and loyal guests, a minority, account for a large portion of the revenue of Disney.

So, if a good portion of repeat guest's experience are significantly decreased, but the bulk of guests (once in a life time) are only marginally improved, what is the overall impact of this ?

I would wager to say that a quite significant possibility is that the marginal increase in experience for the once in a life timer, or first timer, makes zero difference in the likelihood they become return guests. However, if this turns off a significant portion of their "20" group of people, who are responsible for the bulk of their revenue (or at least a disproportionate portion), then this has significant negative repercussions.

Of course, I don't have any data to support this possibility, but I do wish Josh or someone had some data to share on how much of WDW revenue is based on return guests, etc.

 

[JimmyV]

I still wonder how much business Disney is actually going to lose, even among the self-selected uber-FP-user group here. Many of the most vocal critics still appear to be here, on an unofficial Disney board, daily talking about all of it.

Actually, this is the last place to look for people who will go less often and take business away from Disney. As loud and as often as this crowd carps, it is still the fan base that is the most likely to overlook the warts. What Disney needs to be concerned with are the people who have far less time, money and emotion invested in WDW and who are coming down for the first time, doing some days at both WDW and US and are doing a head-up comparison. Of the people who I know who fit this description, the "I'm not going back to WDW, but I will go back to US" visitors are becoming more and more numerous. That is not to suggest that this is the universal cry (pardon the pun). Far from it. But it is becoming more and more the case among the casual, non-Dis crowd.