*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[mom2rtk]

you mean the meet and greet that is now in Norway?

And DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Indications at this point is that it is being relocated from Norway.

I do find it interesting that it's within the 60 day window and they are listed on the calendar at the MK, but they are not available for FP yet. Makes me wonder just what they are up to....... And I do hear there's something else big happening in the MK not soon after........

 

[Planogirl]

This Anna and Elsa change looks interesting. I'll just be glad if they get them out of the Norway store! Maybe build something else for them in Norway or put them in Akershus.

Also, this notion of spreading out rides to lock people in bothers me in another way. Some families like to take afternoon breaks to nap or swim. It would be a major bummer if FP+ somehow interfered with that. Also, it could make it less desirable to park hop. If I want to spend the morning in one park and then head over to maybe Epcot late that afternoon, it would be a pain if the system tried to spread out the three FP+ too much.

Just some thoughts.

 

[mom2rtk]

I did chuckle at a previous poster's suggestion that certain attractions will become signature, requiring 2 FPs. Maybe the Frozen girls would be one of those.

LOL, I actually have been taunting people with that "signature FP" suggestion for some time. Unless it really happens. Then you can blame magicbob.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Indications at this point is that it is being relocated from Norway.

I do find it interesting that it's within the 60 day window and they are listed on the calendar at the MK, but they are not available for FP yet. Makes me wonder just what they are up to....... And I do hear there's something else big happening in the MK not soon after........

Maybe it's just the evil genius in me, but I can't help but think th A/E move to Fantasy Land is a ploy to draw more attention to NFL. Let's see....Mine Train Media event on 4/30...Mine Train softs before that....A/E M&G pretty much next door....hmmmm.

They are trying really really hard to make the official completion of NFL a big deal in the people's eyes.

Come on, June!!

 

[practicallyperfect77]

This Anna and Elsa change looks interesting. I'll just be glad if they get them out of the Norway store! Maybe build something else for them in Norway or put them in Akershus.

Also, this notion of spreading out rides to lock people in bothers me in another way. Some families like to take afternoon breaks to nap or swim. It would be a major bummer if FP+ somehow interfered with that. Also, it could make it less desirable to park hop. If I want to spend the morning in one park and then head over to maybe Epcot late that afternoon, it would be a pain if the system tried to spread out the three FP+ too much.

Just some thoughts.

Unless they allowed us to use FP+ in more than one park. This would make me very happy. I realize it's not all about me though. =( I just hate the idea of basically wasting 2 FP+ in Epcot since the 2nd tiers don't need them.

 

[*disgal*]

Indications at this point is that it is being relocated from Norway.

I do find it interesting that it's within the 60 day window and they are listed on the calendar at the MK, but they are not available for FP yet. Makes me wonder just what they are up to....... And I do hear there's something else big happening in the MK not soon after........

Ya know that just sounds crazy making a meet and greet a FP. But then again, I think it's crazy rushing to WS at RD to stand in line for 2 or 3 hours.

Now, if it does move to MK but doesn't become a FP, that helps with my touring since a ton of people would be heading to FL while my family heads to TL.

 

[mom2rtk]

Ya know that just sounds crazy making a meet and greet a FP. But then again, I think it's crazy rushing to WS at RD to stand in line for 2 or 3 hours.

Now, if it does move to MK but doesn't become a FP, that helps with my touring since a ton of people would be heading to FL while my family heads to TL.

I would be shocked if making them FP wasn't one of several priorities in changing their current setup.

Never fear though, I'm sure it will still be a huge rope drop diversion for the people who miss out on scoring one of their FPs.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Collecting data is one thing. Analyzing it correctly is another!

The premise of that article:
FP+ changed the standby wait time of Dinosaur from 15 to 25 minutes.

However that is completely subjective. It could just as well be:

Disney World is experiencing a boom in attendance, as clearly evidenced by no free dining, fewer room discounts, higher ticket prices, and record crowds. Wait times are higher, driving the standby time for rides like Dinosaur from 15 to 30 minutes. But thanks to new ride management solutions like the revolutionary FP+, guests are able to get on 20% faster, reducing standby from 30 to 25 minutes, and getting any guest that would like to ride Dinosaur, on in 5-10 minutes once per day.

It's all in how you look at it. FP+

Again, to you, I must say -- thank you!!

 

[Son of Gadsden]

I don't get FPing rides like this. But people are going to do it, which will make the standby line for those rides longer. Maybe only 5 or 10 minutes, but it's 5 or 10 minutes longer that it doesn't need to be.

Case in point the thread yesterday or the day before where the OP just decided to go to Epcot and picked Nemo and Figment as two of her FPs.

Same. Personally, I don't find scheduling my day around GMR would make much sense...seeing as you can just basically walk on. It's not even worth staying in that area of the park until your FP comes up.

 

[GrimGrinningMom]

I agree that Josh's "analysis" (he puts it in quotes himself on Twitter, btw!) seems to make sense given the incentives -- isn't Disney TRYING to spread crowds out more evenly and divert some to the less popular rides? It's also true that all we have to actually "analyze" is one data set -- and a pretty small one at that. I can't imagine anyone drawing conclusions about ANYTHING after this little data, and before even a FULL rollout -- and without any of the other info that Disney has at its disposal when looking at these things. Better that nothing? Sure, ok. Dispositive of anything? Nope.

Interesting nonetheless...

 

[redrosesix]

Same. Personally, I don't find scheduling my day around GMR would make much sense...seeing as you can just basically walk on. It's not even worth staying in that area of the park until your FP comes up.

Depending on when you're there, there may be no walk-ons anymore -- GMR included.

I agree that Josh's "analysis" (he puts it in quotes himself on Twitter, btw!) seems to make sense given the incentives -- isn't Disney TRYING to spread crowds out more evenly and divert some to the less popular rides? It's also true that all we have to actually "analyze" is one data set -- and a pretty small one at that. I can't imagine anyone drawing conclusions about ANYTHING after this little data, and before even a FULL rollout -- and without any of the other info that Disney has at its disposal when looking at these things. Better that nothing? Sure, ok. Dispositive of anything? Nope.

Interesting nonetheless...

I truly think the point of the study and publishing the article is to help people with their touring plans. If you assume that all the old walk-ons will still be walk-ons you're going to get messed up. Just as assuming a FP return line has no wait will throw your schedule off completely.

The way I think of it is this... the old fastpass system is gone, dead and buried. While the new FP+ system sounds similar, it doesn't do the same thing in any way. The purpose of the old one was to allow people to return later if the SB line was getting long, if they chose to, thus decreasing the SB times throughout the day. Since FP holders didn't have priority, the SB line still moved even when when there were people in the FP return line.

The new system guarantees that you will get to do that attraction in that return window or will have pre-arranged seating if it's a show. You may have no wait, or some wait, or wait longer than you previously did in SB for that ride. But you will definitely get to ride in or close to your return window. And if it's a show you will definitely have a place to sit without showing up at least an hour before. Meanwhile the SB line moves if and when it can, depending on whether there are FP holders showing up at that time. In the case of a show, people waiting in SB might not get in, or for fireworks might not get a good place to watch from.

But since you can't FP everything, you will be in SB for some things. Since FP windows require you to show up on time, you need to know what the new SB waits are or you're going to miss some of your FPs. I don't think the point of the article is to say which system is better or worse -- it's more like "this is what you need to know to plan your day"

 

[Angel Ariel]

Same. Personally, I don't find scheduling my day around GMR would make much sense...seeing as you can just basically walk on. It's not even worth staying in that area of the park until your FP comes up.

And when GMR has a 50 min SB wait, as it did yesterday afternoon? People are going to use fp+ for it. FP+ seems to be changing the "givens" (like gmr beig a walk on) that we are all used to.

 

[GrimGrinningMom]

I truly think the point of the study and publishing the article is to help people with their touring plans. If you assume that all the old walk-ons will still be walk-ons you're going to get messed up. Just as assuming a FP return line has no wait will throw your schedule off completely.

The way I think of it is this... the old fastpass system is gone, dead and buried. While the new FP+ system sounds similar, it doesn't do the same thing in any way. The purpose of the old one was to allow people to return later if the SB line was getting long, if they chose to, thus decreasing the SB times throughout the day. Since FP holders didn't have priority, the SB line still moved even when when there were people in the FP return line.

The new system guarantees that you will get to do that attraction in that return window or will have pre-arranged seating if it's a show. You may have no wait, or some wait, or wait longer than you previously did in SB for that ride. But you will definitely get to ride in or close to your return window. And if it's a show you will definitely have a place to sit without showing up at least an hour before. Meanwhile the SB line moves if and when it can, depending on whether there are FP holders showing up at that time. In the case of a show, people waiting in SB might not get in, or for fireworks might not get a good place to watch from.

But since you can't FP everything, you will be in SB for some things. Since FP windows require you to show up on time, you need to know what the new SB waits are or you're going to miss some of your FPs. I don't think the point of the article is to say which system is better or worse -- it's more like "this is what you need to know to plan your day"

ITA - especially those who were "in the know" will need to adjust touring strategies to some degree. But we really don't know enough YET to say very much about HOW they should adjust. I saw another thread yesterday talking about the RUMOR that they might add additional same-day FP+ after you've used your 3 pre-booked ones. Presumably that would change the math -- the "analysis" again. Just too soon to tell very much, and with too little actual data. It's interesting to think about, I just wouldn't hang very much on this at this point, personally.

 

[mom2rtk]

And when GMR has a 50 min SB wait, as it did yesterday afternoon? People are going to use fp+ for it. FP+ seems to be changing the "givens" (like gmr beig a walk on) that we are all used to.

Of all the things I disliked most about FP+, it was the potential for this. And now it's so disappointing to see it coming true.

 

[JimmyV]

But we really don't know enough YET to say very much about HOW they should adjust. I saw another thread yesterday talking about the RUMOR that they might add additional same-day FP+ after you've used your 3 pre-booked ones. Presumably that would change the math -- the "analysis" again. Just too soon to tell very much, and with too little actual data. It's interesting to think about, I just wouldn't hang very much on this at this point, personally.

While there certainly will be changes to the math, it does seem pretty clear that the number of FPs disseminated has increased (that was the whole point of this), and that FP return lines are being given super-priority. This is causing the wait time of SB lines to increase. More important than Josh's data are the first-hand reports that are coming in from the front. So while the final number of attractions that you can FP in a given day remains unknown, what is clear is that the attactions that you do by way of the SB line (after EMH and Rope Drop effects wear off) will be longer than you used to experience. That can and should be factored in to any touring plan starting now, and into the future. No matter what tweaks are made to FP+, you can no longer count on walking on to the GMR after 11:00 on any given day. So if your touring plan says: GMR: 11:00-11:30, you can assume that you will have to adjust that unless you plan to get a FP for it. Obviously, using a FP will present one with the "walk-on" experience that we all used to enjoy. But if you don't use a FP for it, count on waiting in a significant SB line.

 

[redrosesix]

ITA - especially those who were "in the know" will need to adjust touring strategies to some degree. But we really don't know enough YET to say very much about HOW they should adjust. I saw another thread yesterday talking about the RUMOR that they might add additional same-day FP+ after you've used your 3 pre-booked ones. Presumably that would change the math -- the "analysis" again. Just too soon to tell very much, and with too little actual data. It's interesting to think about, I just wouldn't hang very much on this at this point, personally.

Exactly. From now on until they decide they are no longer in the testing phase, you can't make any assumptions. People are better off selecting FPs and adjusting their touring plans when they are closer to their actual arrival dates. But I would probably select something 60 days out just to have it there in case those FPs aren't available later.

But that still goes back to "assume no walk-ons", SB wait times have changed. IMO you should FP your must-do's and hope for the best.

 

[surferdave]

FP+ seems to be changing the "givens"

Of all the things I disliked most about FP+, it was the potential for this. And now it's so disappointing to see it coming true.

Disney has proven the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle using theme park guests instead of quantum particles. By trying to measure their properties they have affected them.

 

[2Tiggies]

But that still goes back to "assume no walk-ons", SB wait times have changed. IMO you should FP your must-do's and hope for the best.

I agree with your above statement. However, I am not happy that I have to put so much more work into planning, changing, replanning and changing again, our activities for this trip and then getting there and having to hope for the best. For the amount of effort it is taking to try get what we deem to be a modestly productive day out of a park, hoping for the best is just not good enough for me.

I'm not challenging your statement at all. I believe you are correct. I'm just adding my 2c

 

[KatieCharlotte]

But that still goes back to "assume no walk-ons", SB wait times have changed. IMO you should FP your must-do's and hope for the best.

Which is why my kids and I have FP+ during spring break for my kids' absolute favorite ride, Haunted Mansion, even though it goes against conventional wisdom, because we'll be hitting it in the early afternoon. I know I'm contributing to the problem, but we do what we must to avoid disappointing the kids or being tortured by a 40min wait for HM. I have also left painfully large gaps in our schedule for riding standby on Small World and PotC in the afternoon.

 

[coopersmom]

Went last year and don't currently have a trip planned, but am periodically reading the FastPass+ threads (are there any other kind right now?), just to see how this whole thing is shaking out.

So far, I'm not impressed. I absolutely believe that you can still have an amazing time at Disney World and can completely see how this system will work far better for some, maybe even most, visitors. Still more than a little skeptical about how this is a better financial investment for Disney than adding new attractions and lands, especially given the financial windfall that was Carsland in California, but, hey, it is what it is, at this point.

Which is kind of my FastPass+ philosophy as a whole. I'm still waiting to pass my final judgement until all the dust has settled, and am well aware that might be a long time coming, and honestly do have serious hope that this system actually ends up working out well for most. In fact, I actually expect that will occur. Eventually.

But, in the near term, I don't see how those that experienced and enjoyed the parks under the old FastPass system won't have a lesser experience under at least the current, "new normal."

We traveled at off-peak times, always did rope drop and made judicious use of FastPass so that we basically never stood in line longer than 10 minutes during a trip. Heck, we wouldn't even get in a line that listed a 20 minute or more wait ... For anything. Despite that disdain for lines, we just about always rode each park's headliners multiple times per day, using strategy, FastPass and a good touring plan.

Going on Splash Mountain 8 times on one slow September day without a wait at any point because that was my son's favorite and it was the first visit that he was tall enough to ride it? Back-to-back Toy Story mania rides or doing the new Test Track three times in a row with rope drop+FastPass strategy (get in line right away, ride, get off and get Fast Pass then immediately get back in a line that was still relatively short, and then when you get off that time, FastPass window was open we could ride again). All of that made our time at the parks very enjoyable, memorable and special as a family, and kept us going back to Disney World three times in four years. I don't think that sort of experience is possible under the current system.

There are plenty that argue that we SHOULDN'T have been able to go on Splash so many times, or that we were "hogging" Test Track, or that we could still replicate those experiences if we really wanted to, as long as we're prepared to wait for the privilege and, "manage our expectations." True to a point and absolutely fair enough, but that's not my idea of a good time. And a vacation SHOULD be a good time. It really should.

And now that it's no longer just headliners that boast outrageous wait times and require finagling and strategy to get on? Right now, going to Disney World FOR ME just doesn't sound like any fun at all. I don't want to spend my vacation waiting in lines. That doesn't make me entitled. It just makes me want to not go to Disney World. At least not anytime soon.