*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

fp+ also balances out.

comparing the first 45 days of the new system, with zero regard to actual park attendance numbers is something only those with an agenda would be prone to do.

You're right. I do have an agenda. I want to get as much out of my vacation this year as I always have, give or take some changes here and there. And how do you propose we employ these actual numbers into our discussion and comparison when we all know full well that Disney does not disclose this? You can't win an argument by calling on those with a different point of view to provide information that you know is not available. Besides, I am not upset by the fact that some people like the new system. If it works for them, why would I try change their mind? That has no benefit to me whatsoever. This is not an election. It's a discussion.
 
someone claimed everyone had an equal opportunity to use legacy fp.

the fact is, your party demographic changes what opportunity legacy fp affords you. Some people had an opportunity to use a runner. others did not.

I just showed one example of how people did not have equal opportunity, so the statement of fact I replied to has been proven false.

Is that not true anywhere you go? I can walk into a local restaurant at almost any given time with my daughter and be seated. If I round up 10 friends we probably have to wait for a table. I don't argue with what you explained. I just don't think you can use it as a basis for what you are trying to get across here.
 

Everyone had equal opportunity to use FP with the legacy system. If they chose not to use it, it wasn't my problem.

Sure. But they didn't. So we were happy as the few using it.

So say, everyone all of a sudden started using FP-, and the use of it jumped from 10% to 90%. Then in any FP- strategy, by the time you used your first one, all the FPs for the headliners would be gone. Now all that's left are Tier-2s that you can pull. Would it still be cool?

No! FP- was super cool to those who used it, because so many didn't.

Oh, btw what I just described was FP+. :) FP+ is nothing more than FP- but with everyone using it instead of just a small group using it.

Have a cake to share among 2 ppl? Get half a cake. Have a cake to share among 50 ppl? Get a nibble. Didn't use to run for cake before? No worries enjoy a nibble anyways. Hey thanks that's cool! Used to get half a cake? Too bad, these other 48 ppl just ate it so enjoy your nibble or don't go.

Yes most Dis'ers are part of the "2" and lose out on what was a previously lightly used benefit all to themselves. Not much you can do about that except look at how you can use FP+ to your advantage. The other 48 will have a better time, but that doesn't help you when you're waiting in line for POTC while they walk past you. :confused3
 
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someone claimed everyone had an equal opportunity to use legacy fp.

the fact is, your party demographic changes what opportunity legacy fp affords you. Some people had an opportunity to use a runner. others did not.

I just showed one example of how people did not have equal opportunity, so the statement of fact I replied to has been proven false.

LOL Sorry, I'm not buying your "argument".

Legacy FP afforded everyone the same opportunity. Every party, regardless of age, had the same opportunity to walk to a FP machine and pull a FP.
 
People who want to sleep until noon and people that don't want to ride headliners.

Not even all of them benefit, based on this data. My kids don't want to ride mountains but lots of their favorite rides, many of which they like to ride multiple times, have longer lines now -- HM, JC, PotC, Buzz, Star Tours, even Small World. It's harder for our family because the adults want to ride the mountains and it's impossible to balance everyone's interests, but even an entire family that only wants "second tier" rides is waiting in longer standby lines.
 
Not much you can do about that except look at how you can use FP+ to your advantage.

That's not all someone can do.

I'm still expecting more significant changes in the FP+ system. The more complaints and suggestions Disney receives, the more likely the system will change. The more visible FP+ complaints are on social media and message boards can only provide more impetus to accelerate any changes.

The fact they are asking people what they think of different plans to add more FP+s beyond 3 is another sign more changes are coming.
 
LOL Sorry, I'm not buying your "argument".

Legacy FP afforded everyone the same opportunity. Every party, regardless of age, had the same opportunity to walk to a FP machine and pull a FP.



I agree everyone had the same chance. Only difference is that it wasn't so in your face as it is now. Your practically pushed to get it. Not only that but if all I want is one fast pass for Space Mountain I am also forced to select two others that I don't want.
 
Introducing the concept of FP "runners" into the debate is pointless. A person running to Soarin' at rope drop got a FP all of 3-5 minutes faster than aperson who walked. Unless the runner was Usain(sp?) Bolt. The number of such runners and their overall impact in FP distribution was so insignificant that discussion of the practice wastes time and detracts for the matter at hand. At a "Tiered" park, all that matters is:

  • What percentage of people rode Soarin' and Test Track (or TSM and RnR) on the same day.
  • Of those people who did, what percentage of them got FPs for Soarin' and Test Track (or TSM and RnR) vs. the percentage of people who got a FP for one but not the other, or got a FP for neither.
Those are the people who are being negatively impacted. There is no analysis, math, opinion, data, emotion, passion, fervor or support that one can bring to this debate that the new system in any way benefits these people, or that their time spent in line is going to be shorter, or the same.

All that remains is to determine (which we cannot do) is whether this touring approach was typical or atypical. I would submit that DVC owners, AP Holders, and repeat visitors are the people most likely to have toured in the manner described above. I would think that their touring approaches will be impacted the most, and they seem like groups of people that Disney would want to appease, and not disenfranchise.
 
I don't think the post arrives at any conclusions stronger than the "data" suggest. The analysis is hampered by the fact that it relies on Disney's own posted waits, but nothing better is ever going to be available. Anecdotal "actual" wait times wouldn't be enough to draw any better conclusions even if you had 100 people in the parks constantly timing waits. Overall, posted waits are fairly accurate and the fact that the charts use median times instead of average times helps eliminate the outliers or wildly inaccurate wait times.

Otherwise the post isn't titled "The be all end all facts of FP+ effects on standby waits," it just takes a look over about 700,000 wait times over the course of several months.

Attendance is up just under 1.5% year over year but that's unlikely to cause the spikes we're seeing at certain attractions. There were similar gains between 2012 and 2013 and wait times were largely unaffected.
 
I admit I was one of those people who got Fast Passes for both TT and Soarin on the same day. Power Walked to Soarin got my fast pass then either jumped in the line or went on The Land. I would then use my Soarin Fass then walk over to TT and get a fast pass there.

So what was I doing that was so wrong? Who was I hurting? Apparently someone since now we have been punished and we can no longer do that.

Besides why does Disney want me standing in a line all day. If I am in a line I cant spend $$$$$$$$$ I cant buy Vinlymations and I cant buy Adult Juice.
 
Everyone had equal opportunity to use FP with the legacy system. If they chose not to use it, it wasn't my problem.

It was your problem in the sense that if all the folks who were not using FP- suddenly started using it then you would be very limited in the amount of FP- you could have pulled and the rides you could have pulled them from. To maintain the touring style you preferred you had a vested interest in those folks who weren't using FP- to continue not using FP-.
 
Do you think things would have been different ( wait time wise) had things remained the same in the sense you could only get FP for certain attractions and you could get a new one every two hours or after using your current FP?
 
To maintain the touring style you preferred you had a vested interest in those folks who weren't using FP- to continue not using FP-.

Eh. But that's life. I don't need Big Brother to level the playing field. I have an Express Pass for highway tolls. I have a vested interest in not having everyone get the pass thus keeping the Express Lanes shorter. I wouldn't be happy if they changed the system so that everone had Express Lane privileges, but that each person could only use the Express Lanes three times a year and had to use the Cash Lanes the rest of the time.
 
Sure. But they didn't. So we were happy as the few using it.

So say, everyone all of a sudden started using FP-, and the use of it jumped from 10% to 90%. Then in any FP- strategy, by the time you used your first one, all the FPs for the headliners would be gone. Now all that's left are Tier-2s that you can pull. Would it still be cool?

No! FP- was super cool to those who used it, because so many didn't.

Oh, btw what I just described was FP+. :) FP+ is nothing more than FP- but with everyone using it instead of just a small group using it.

I'm pretty sure more than ten percent were using FP-, but clearly fewer than FP+. Of those that were not, there were many reasons, some related to lack of knowledge or physical ability. But how many people simply preferred a relaxed style of touring, riding attractions as they came to them? People who did research and had a stronger desire to skip lines did so. I guess the cake analogy would be switching from giving people to opportunity to go get some cake if they really like it versus bringing everyone equal size pieces at their desks, telling them cake is awesome, and forcing them to take the whole piece even if they only want one bite.

Uninformed people are still at a disadvantage under FP+ because they're going to pick FP for the wrong attractions or the wrong times and will have trouble making changes when they see the lines. (Both the online and TV ads featuring booking the teacups.) They must learn even farther ahead which FP are in high demand.

There are also other negative effects to FP+ beyond a change in who gets the FP, including the need to predict weather, moods, and kids' interests two months ahead or face the headache of trying to make last-minute changes.
 













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