UPDATE p. 37. I finally canceled. Too much uncertainty for us.

[clsteve]

You forgot to add repetitive and unnecessary after countless (which I would have replaced with "endless").

Hey people. Flame all you want. It confirms my point. At least I brought a different perspective to the discussion.

Thank you for flaming on the people that were flaming.

We anxiously await the next poster who will flame you - so we can have flame cubed.

 

[rebbyparker]

Thank you for flaming on the people that were flaming.

We anxiously await the next poster who will flame you - so we can have flame cubed.

LOL!!

 

[WillAustin]

Yeah. Because it would just be nuts to feel like you should get decent ride access for a $100 admission price. You should just write a big check and take whatever they decide to give you.

If "everyone" has to spend several hours out of the day in line then it's more fair and more OK.

 

[clsteve]

LOL!!

Probably too soon for a math joke- sorry.....

 

[redsbe]

I've said it before, but I didn't pay admission to wait 3+ hours in lines over the course of the day.

I wouldn't get in a line over 20 minutes long if they were handing out money at the end of it. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.

For a lot of people, new limitations on FPs will significantly affect their WDW trips negatively. Could we have a good trip without FPs? Maybe, but it would be very different than our previous successful trips. Some people aren't willing to risk that right now. Nothing wrong with making that decision. Certainly, sounds like a tangible reason to me. No over-reaction here.

Visitors also pay good money for single day tickets to other major theme parks without FP and yet spend hours in line for a few rides. And apparently if there are long waits and lines at WDW rides that are many WDW visitors also willing to wait - if not there would be no lines to begin with! The point is that lines and long waits are common in many popular theme parks and acceptable to many visitors even though others like you and me would never stand and wait one hour long for ANY attraction or line.

As to impact of changes to FP, really depends on how much having easy access to multiple FP is a key factor in your visit along with being able to use FP to manage large crowds and/or ride the most popular ride multiple times in the same day - again those may be key to you but perhaps not majority of visitors? WDW certainly has the data on existing FP to know exactly the percentage of park visitors any given day/crowd size that use various numbers of FP.

My guess would be that WDW already knows that the majority of visitors in a park in a given day do not use more than 3 FP, thus running tests of FP+ based on that data. I am quite certain here on the boards, and us experienced WDW regulars, greatly overestimate the percentage and number of park visitors that use/depend on FP as part of their park planning and actual visit.

 

[rebbyparker]

Probably too soon for a math joke- sorry.....

No, very appropriate and made me laugh. Thanks!

 

[Mad Hattered]

Thank you for flaming on the people that were flaming.

We anxiously await the next poster who will flame you - so we can have flame cubed.

Sorry. It's the best I could do with such short notice.

 

[clsteve]

Sorry. It's the best I could do with such short notice.

 

[rebbyparker]

Sorry. It's the best I could do with such short notice.

Very nice.

You made me very glad that I bit my tongue before going off to look for the face palm. I swear, some people...

And now I get to laugh!

 

[MrInfinity]

I hate waiting. I hate lines. I hate hearing kids whine about waiting. It just totally makes me nuts.

You know, Disney World isn't for everyone. Particularly those who might use the word "hate" to depict their view on waiting or on children whining... Or because you dislike waiting or "hearing other kids whine about waiting" more than everyone else dislikes these things you deserve to get on the rides faster?

 

[EMom]

I can't believe all of the FP drama. It's getting a little pathetic. Does anybody here seriously believe that people are cancelling their entire vacations just because of uncertainty surrounding FP+ testing? I don't believe it for a minute. The OP's first few sentences were all I needed to come to this conclusion. There are obviously some other things going on in the OP's life that justify cancelling their trip.

It would seem that some people are using FP+ and MB's as an excuse for cancelling, rather than a reason. There is a difference. I have not bothered to read this entire thread, but I'm sure there have been the customary "I'm sorry. You have to do what's best for your family", and "Great, less crowds for my trip during the same week" replies.

You absolutely must do what's best for you and your family. And if that means cancelling a WDW trip, then sobeit. But please. For the love of Mickey. Don't make Disney your excuse. Take a look at what's important (it's not Fastpass) and then accept the real reason (or reasons) why you had to cancel your trip.

Denial ain't just a river on The Jungle Cruise.

OP here and I'll be as clear as possible. Had all this mess with FP+, tiered attractions, etc. NOT been going on and it had been WDW as usual, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that we would have taken the trip instead of cancelling it. We were looking forward to it and needed a fun trip after a fairly crappy year. We looked forward to our WDW fix and suspending reality for a week or so. WDW was meant to relieve the stress, but all the uncertainty and constant changes were ADDING to the stress. I don't usually pay a fortune to have stress added to my life.

So yes, FP+ and all it entailed actually DID directly cause us to cancel the trip. Maybe you don't see it as a valid reason to cancel, but since you're not paying for my trip, your opinion as to validity matters not at all. Not everyone thinks as you do. Maybe that's hard for you to grasp, but it's true.

 

[Karlzmom]

On the positive side, some really good ADRs opened up for someone.

We have had a rough year. A lot of the stress has come from uncertainty and waiting for the other shoe to drop regarding things non-Disney. We needed a low stress vacation and WDW (while an active and busy vacation) usually fits that bill.

We were headed there the week before Thanksgiving and planned to spend part of the trip with friends who would not have FP+. When I booked and when I got ready to pay off the trip, I asked about whether we'd be able to use FP+ and FP- and was assured that double dipping would be in place until 2014. But I knew CMs were saying all sorts of things so I realized that was not gospel.

The closer the trip got, the more things changed. I cannot take the stress of lines in the sand changing on an almost daily basis. For my money, I want to be reasonably sure about what I am going to get. We are a repeat headliner family. We arrive early, pull at least 6-8 FP a day and stay late. The changes (tiered FP at Epcot) and as of today, what appears to be an end to double dipping, mean we would be limited to 3 FP a day and that is a big step down for us.

I am afraid there will be people all over those parks having meltdowns when they realize that what was allowed one day is not allowed the next. A friend who lives in Orlando said they had not renewed their APs due to all the changes and that the majority of people she knew were doing the same.

I realize FP+ will be a great thing for SOME people, based on their touring style. For us, it was sizing up to be an expensive hot mess. I told them when we canceled that we were waiting until the dust settled to see if we'd be back again. Until then, we may hit Universal again or even Disneyland.

Oh well..............

I feel you. I have many of the same thoughts and concerns. If it weren't for the fact that we rented DVC points that are non-refundable, I'd likely have done the same. As it is we changed from getting APs to go again in 2014.

Leave the place to the apologists. Maybe when revenue goes down, the powers that be will consider they actually need to deliver a great experience rather than just assuming that the masses will continue to come and jump through hoops for the pleasure of dropping every dime they can into the mouse's pocket.

I hope you can find a great vacation for you and your family. Maybe someday the World will return to a low stress happy place.

 

[EMom]

If "everyone" has to spend several hours out of the day in line then it's more fair and more OK.

Comrade WillAustin makes a good point.

 

[rebbyparker]

OP here and I'll be as clear as possible. Had all this mess with FP+, tiered attractions, etc. NOT been going on and it had been WDW as usual, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that we would have taken the trip instead of cancelling it. We were looking forward to it and needed a fun trip after a fairly crappy year. We looked forward to our WDW fix and suspending reality for a week or so. WDW was meant to relieve the stress, but all the uncertainty and constant changes were ADDING to the stress. I don't usually pay a fortune to have stress added to my life.

So yes, FP+ and all it entailed actually DID directly cause us to cancel the trip. Maybe you don't see it as a valid reason to cancel, but since you're not paying for my trip, your opinion as to validity matters not at all. Not everyone thinks as you do. Maybe that's hard for you to grasp, but it's true.

Nice to see you again! Hope things are going well?

 

[redsbe]

I feel you. I have many of the same thoughts and concerns. If it weren't for the fact that we rented DVC points that are non-refundable, I'd likely have done the same. As it is we changed from getting APs to go again in 2014.

Leave the place to the apologists. Maybe when revenue goes down, the powers that be will consider they actually need to deliver a great experience rather than just assuming that the masses will continue to come and jump through hoops for the pleasure of dropping every dime they can into the mouse's pocket.

I hope you can find a great vacation for you and your family. Maybe someday the World will return to a low stress happy place.

WDW will continue to test and adapt MB and FP+, but be sure WDW is about the final financial bottom line, and they have the data, analysis and research that will show them how these changes will drive up revenue, especially after investing millions in MB and FP+ technology. Yes WDW is working under the assumption that masses will continue to come and will end up spending more money. MB and FP+ may continue to face challenges and certainly changes, but this is the future WDW visit experience, like it or not, the masses will adapt and they are not going way. Adjust number of FP+ per day, alter ride tiers, all possible due to testing and responses, but there is no way WDW is backing off from MB and FP+. Many visitors will accept and adapt to MB and FP+ and the stress will drop off as they become common and more experience MB and FP+.

And I have been to WDW 15 times starting in the 1970s and it has not been what I would refer to as "low stress" trip or destination since at least the 1990s with advanced planning and day strategies and adaptation the norm. Never been able to simply book a trip and wonder into any park on day on a whim and have any enjoyable time without at least some "stress" in advance planning and strategies for experiencing the parks and managing lines and crowds. RD, FP, ADRs, long park days, buses, budget decisions (what can I afford?), etc... all require thought and planning, which makes for some level of "stress". If I am looking for a stress free vacation I am not going to WDW, but to a beach resort with sand, sun, water and a cool drink!

 

[MrInfinity]

WDW will continue to test and adapt MB and FP+, but be sure WDW is about the final financial bottom line, and they have the data, analysis and research that will show them how these changes will drive up revenue, especially after investing millions in MB and FP+ technology. Yes WDW is working under the assumption that masses will continue to come and will end up spending more money. MB and FP+ may continue to face challenges and certainly changes, but this is the future WDW visit experience, like it or not, the masses will adapt and they are not going way. Adjust number of FP+ per day, alter ride tiers, all possible due to testing and responses, but there is no way WDW is backing off from MB and FP+. Many visitors will accept and adapt to MB and FP+ and the stress will drop off as they become common and more experience MB and FP+.

And I have been to WDW 15 times starting in the 1970s and it has not been what I would refer to as "low stress" trip or destination since at least the 1990s with advanced planning and day strategies and adaptation the norm. Never been able to simply book a trip and wonder into any park on day on a whim and have any enjoyable time without at least some "stress" in advance planning and strategies for experiencing the parks and managing lines and crowds. RD, FP, ADRs, long park days, buses, budget decisions (what can I afford?), etc... all require thought and planning, which makes for some level of "stress". If I am looking for a stress free vacation I am not going to WDW, but to a beach resort with sand, sun, water and a cool drink!

Yep FP+ is the way it is now. "Testing" is not Disney evaluating if they are going to do it, "testing" means it's implemented and at this point Disney is merely tweaking the features. They will continue to tweak them as they continue to find ways to use these to draw ppl to their properties.

Altho I agree w you on that, I don't agree that DW is a "high stress" trip. I'm going with a party of 8... 7 of them are doing hardly any planning, and would have a wonderful time even if I wasn't actively getting hard-to-get ADRs and stuff. And doing that work myself, I don't feel stressed as I rather enjoy it. While at WDW, it's some of the most magical stress-free time in my life.

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

Yep FP+ is the way it is now. "Testing" is not Disney evaluating if they are going to do it, "testing" means it's implemented and at this point Disney is merely tweaking the features. They will continue to tweak them as they continue to find ways to use these to draw ppl to their properties.

Altho I agree w you on that, I don't agree that DW is a "high stress" trip. I'm going with a party of 8... 7 of them are doing hardly any planning, and would have a wonderful time even if I wasn't actively getting hard-to-get ADRs and stuff. And doing that work myself, I don't feel stressed as I rather enjoy it. While at WDW, it's some of the most magical stress-free time in my life.

Nicely said !

 

[redsbe]

Yep FP+ is the way it is now. "Testing" is not Disney evaluating if they are going to do it, "testing" means it's implemented and at this point Disney is merely tweaking the features. They will continue to tweak them as they continue to find ways to use these to draw ppl to their properties.

Altho I agree w you on that, I don't agree that DW is a "high stress" trip. I'm going with a party of 8... 7 of them are doing hardly any planning, and would have a wonderful time even if I wasn't actively getting hard-to-get ADRs and stuff. And doing that work myself, I don't feel stressed as I rather enjoy it. While at WDW, it's some of the most magical stress-free time in my life.

I guess it all depends on what causes one to "stress out" in regards to a WDW vacation. For me having to plan in advance to avoid crowds and long waits/lines adds a level of stress unique to WDW, including planning for RD and FP. Now that stress would be less during low crowd dates, or longer trips (more days to experience the parks) and less expectations or need to go on the most popular rides (sometimes multiple times in a day!), instead just simply do and walk the parks and experience all that WDW has to offer. Vacation time and budget is just so limited to begin with, so I think for many people the "stress" results from attempting to get the greatest value for their time and money. But perhaps for many people simply going to WDW and doing whatever is possible in terms of rides, events and attractions, is what they enjoy then it is a "stress free" trip.

 

[Colleen27]

But lines at Disney are shorter than any other amusement park, including headliners. At least that's been my experience.

First of all, that's not been my experience. We're within a few hours' drive of the mother of all thrill-ride parks and aside from 2 or 3 of the newest rides an hour's line is unusual unless you're going on busier days (weekends). It is the norm at at least a half-dozen of Disney's headliners even on the very slowest days of the year.

Second, Disney tickets are at least twice the price of a ticket to that local amusement park, and more than triple for shorter visits. I do expect a better experience for the $1000+ that I spend on Disney tickets than I do for the $350ish I spend to take my family to Cedar Point.

 

[EMom]

Nice to see you again! Hope things are going well?

Well, things are looking up. We are very close to getting a closing date on our house......the one that is 4 months late being completed. With any luck, we will close by the first week of December. We were meant to live to live in an apartment for 2 months until the house was finished and we'll wind up being in one for six months. Living here has been awful. Last weekend, the police had to come twice in one night for drunken brawls right outside our apartment. And it's an upscale complex, so go figure. We've paid more in rent than we would have on a fat mortgage. Too many people don't seem to realize it's communal living and being LOUD is not nice.

Had we known how long they were going to take to finish the house, we'd have held on to our house and stayed on our nice, quiet, friendly street with great neighbors.

DH still has a job, but he's had a second job added to his duties for a few months now at no additional pay. With any luck, that will end soon. Can't refuse the work, as there are people who would take his job for less money.

DD hasn't been kicked out of school for being an out of district student and that's a plus. We've made friends with the Mediterranean House Gecko that lives by our door.

All my winter clothes are in storage, so I bought one pair of jeans and two long sleeved tops. I refuse to get stuff out of storage when moving is so close. When we moved here, we only brought the bare bones of what we needed. The place just didn't have room. Now Thanksgiving is coming and all my cookware is in storage. I'd never be able to find it. On the positive side, someone took pity on us and invited us for TG dinner.

We just keep telling ourselves we are in the homestretch and it will end soon. Then, I'll be in a house and be able to sleep again. Cross your fingers for an early closing!