UPDATE p. 37. I finally canceled. Too much uncertainty for us.

[BayouMickey]

 

[surferdave]

Um...I'm trying very hard to refrain from posting a rude response to this post. For now, I'll leave it at this --- *you* don't get to decide who is a "true" Disney lover and who isn't. Crazy.

You can cut off any discussion with a No True Scotsman Fallacy.

It's more elegant and specific than (and just as dismissive as) scolding the frustrated vacation planners for not just being grateful to live in a modern society. I'll commend the poster for raising the bar a little.

 

[nugov2]

i wish Disney would post this ..

[/URL][/IMG]

I think that is the message they are already sending people. I think they would benefit more by posting this for their employees though...especially the big decision makers at the top

 

[rebbyparker]

Great post!

 

[robpa]

Great post!

Agreed

 

[OtherScott]

I also share the belief that all of this will vastly improved once it's fully rolled out. However I still wonder about capacity.

TSMM is running out of fastpasses almost immediately and someone is getting all of those fastpasses. It would seem that those who already get the fastpasses will just simply switch to FP+ when their time comes. I see no change there.

What I wonder about are the less popular rides. When people get messages either at home before travel or while in parks that they can schedule FP+ pretty easily won't more of them take advantage of it? Disney hasn't really pushed legacy fastpasses but by all appearances they might just push FP+ and that certainly could lead to more people using them.

But who knows right now. It could all change tomorrow and then we'll have something else to argue about.

TSMM is an outlier because it's in a park where there are just not that many things for younger kids to do.

But I would hesitate to extrapolate the same-day behavior of a DHS guest to his advance planning behavior. Yes, once he's decided that today is the day he's going to DHS he gets up early, arrives at RD and beelines it to TSMM. But that doesn't mean that 2 months earlier he's decided which his 6 park days will be DHS.

Planner still has advantage. In fact, I'd argue, moreso. Because within the group running to TSMM, pulling FP then getting in line for morning ride (setting off chain event for length of lines throughout the day) are a more than a few who'd rather not - who'd stay in bed if they knew they had a FP on the books.

 

[OtherScott]

You mean tracking collar. Maybe they will give you a shock if you deviate from the course

Now you're thinking!

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I think that is the message they are already sending people. I think they would benefit more by posting this for their employees though...especially the big decision makers at the top

Love it .

(I have the same sign posted in my office at work..........I think its an important reminder that EVERY business needs from time to time)

 

[rt2dz]

Maybe people who visit Disney annually or even more frequently lose sight of what most visitors find appealling?

OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.

More people cancelling Disney because of FP+. I say stay away. go someplace else. Leave Disney for the true DISNEY LOVERS!!!! The less people there the better. I can't believe people are so upset about this. Crazy. Yes I like FP but can still enjoy Disney if I can't get 100 of them.

True Disney lovers know more than you obviously do about Disney.

 

[dwheaton]

OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.

True Disney lovers know more than you obviously do about Disney.

You hit the nail on the head with this post. I think part of the issues are just a symptom of more people going to the parks. The number of international visitors has skyrocketed even in the just the past 10 years. When you have to cater to more people, service and atmosphere will likely drop without expending more resources.

That said, it doesn't excuse "bad show" on the level that some have seen. Yes, the Disney parks can still offer an amazing vacation. Heck, I'd drop everything and go there tomorrow if I could. However, I do question the value in spending thousands of dollars when the guest isn't getting the same benefits that were received in the past.

This isn't really about FP+. That's just a symptom of a larger issue for me. It's the overall approach to planning and consideration of the guests from upper management. They're making huge profits, so they're going to keep following the same approach in the future.

 

[BayouMickey]

OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.



True Disney lovers know more than you obviously do about Disney.

Been going since 1975... I'm not upset about it.. Nor was I upset about the end of ticket books, the implementation of FP, dining plan etc. These are all frivolous things in the larger spectrum.

 

[rebbyparker]

This isn't really about FP+. That's just a symptom of a larger issue for me. It's the overall approach to planning and consideration of the guests from upper management. They're making huge profits, so they're going to keep following the same approach in the future.

Exactly. This is how I'm feeling right now. I'm not feeling that special, magical, OMG! We're going to Disneyworld!, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait!!, Are we there yet?! that I normally feel. Not because of the changes, but how Disney, the company that has always set THE standard for customer service, implemented the changes. And I agree with another poster, who the heck is running this ship?

 

[clsteve]

BTW, I think all of this will ultimately lead back to more than 3 FP opps per park/per day under most conditions. Probably not during planning but certainly with the addition of same-day opps.

Not quite sure why you are saying this since Disney Exec's have stated they will not be holding back any FP+ reservations, same day or otherwise (per some knowledable posters like BCrook).

Secondly, this would go against their goal of longer term Park capacity management and throughput.

 

[OtherScott]

OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.

I can and do appreciate this sentiment, especially about the food.

 

[OtherScott]

Not quite sure why you are saying this since Disney Exec's have stated they will not be holding back any FP+ reservations, same day or otherwise (per some knowledable posters like BCrook).

Secondly, this would go against their goal of longer term Park capacity management and throughput.

Sorry if I wasnt precise. I don't think they will "hold back" FPs either. I think that in practice same-day FPs will be available.

 

[AmyB2006]

OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyalty) are more upset because they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

I've been going since then as well as a child, and have been several times a year, every year starting in the early 80s. I don't think your perceived loyalty to Disney has anything to do with this. I am not upset with Disney over this.

I do agree with you, that customer service isn't what it was then, along with some other things. But I think customer base has changed as well. So change goes hand in hand. For fear of having this thread shut down with my opinions on customers, we'll leave it at that.

But I disagree that just because you've been going to Disney since the 70s means you're more upset than others. Or that Disney has somehow gone "downhill" since then. That is your perception and opinion, to which of course you are entitled. But it doesn't hold true for everyone that's been going since then. Yes some things are different, but I do still love Disney.

 

[SoarinSC]

OR, maybe, the people who go annually and have since the 1970s (talk about loyality) are more upset beccause they've seen the atmosphere go down over the years? Especially the last 12 years or so.

It used to be that you didn't see maintenance workers, but everything looked like opening day. It used to be customer service not only met expectations, but exceeded them by 300%, it used to be that food was actually worth eating, it used to be that you would see more entertainment than you could watch, it used to be you could shop in the stores and see a million different items of high quality, it used to be...

Now what we get is price increases, lowered training standards (which is why the CMs aren't what they used to be--not their fault, but the fault of Disney corporate for not teaching "the Disney way"), substandard food that is standardized across the board, the same merchandise that is cheaply made in every store (much of which you can find at Walmart, or the dollar store), and more. It is the same shows over and over, except when they cut shows. Some just disappear.

We've had no new rides in forever when Universal is adding and adding and adding. It has taken 3 years to get a minor kiddie roller coaster (that will not be a true headliner), and it isn't open yet!

Perhaps it's more that we know Disney isn't what it used to be. What it should be. What it could be again. We go for the rides, the nostalgia, because that is all that is left. And the nostalgia is running thin. Maybe were just tired of it all and this is the last straw.



True Disney lovers know more than you obviously do about Disney.

I understand the frustration. The last two years have been hit and miss for us. I love MK and Epcot and this was the first year we ended a trip by deciding to skip one of the parks the next trip.

For example, we always enjoyed grabbing lunch from Tortuga Tavern...now the food is pretty substandard fare. I can only guess Disney went cheaper with the ingredients in order to increase profit.

Castmembers were hit and miss...some had great attitudes while others looked less than happy.

The frustration comes from a love of the parks...we know it can be better and should be better and want it to be better. I get embarrassed when I think that for some other guest it might be their first trip ever and they get less than what Disney has been able to present in the past.

What's worrisome for me is that Disney is seeing huge profits despite the decline in some areas...so where will the incentive be to improve on the basics?

 

[luvthemouse71]

I think that is the message they are already sending people. I think they would benefit more by posting this for their employees though...especially the big decision makers at the top

The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people. They created a bunch of spoiled brats.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.

 

[sunshine girl]

OP, I'm sorry that your trip didn't work out. Thanks for sharing about your decision.

My thoughts exactly, which is why we decided to book a sort of MIN/MAX period for our upcoming visit. Arrive on 11/21 and depart on 12/7 gives us over two weeks, with one complete week of historically high crowds (Thanksgiving) and one week of typically much lower crowds (first week of December).

From a technical perspective, I'm definitely going to be watching for the effects of this now year-long test over those 17 days.

Laketravis: Hope you will share your insights along the way!

 

[robpa]

The problem is, Disney went over and above in customer service, to the point where they coddled certain types of people. They created a bunch of spoiled brats.

The customer is not always right. Sometimes, the customer is unreasonable or just plain nasty.

It's been said dozens of times, but I'll say it again. If you don't like the way things are done, don't give them your business.

I do think the vast majority of consumers think they are doing just fine. It's just that the complainers are vocal. In the end though a small number of unhappy DISers aren't going to even register.

Most businesses reserve the right to not serve or to remove unreasonable nasty folks from their businesses. No company should change the way they do business due to some bad apples. I'm sure there is a much larger percentage of guests who don't cause any trouble. Also don't you believe that companies need to have "vocal complainers" ? How would they know what needs fixing if no one ever complained?