Update: Disney lobbies for ticket law changes - Bill Passed

[DCTooTall]

Caveat emptor.

If the buyer gets scammed by a scammer I fail to see how Disney should take any bad press on that.

Feel bad for the scammed family. Maybe.

Feel like Disney owes the scammed family anything? Not at all. Get in line and buy a ticket like everyone else.

FWIW... I never said anything about Disney getting bad press. However, They may get a black eye in the view of that family. Disney did nothing wrong, but the family who got scammed may only see it as Disney's fault they gotta buy another set of tickets. Especially in today's society where people refuse to take any sort of personal responsibility.

 

[TheShea's]

FWIW... I never said anything about Disney getting bad press. However, They may get a black eye in the view of that family. Disney did nothing wrong, but the family who got scammed may only see it as Disney's fault they gotta buy another set of tickets. Especially in today's society where people refuse to take any sort of personal responsibility.

Sorry, I was referring to my original post which referenced another poster who commented that Disney gets tarnished if a family gets scammed and Disney won't honor the tickets. We're on the same page. It's unfortunate that people get scammed but there are ways to ensure that the WDW tickets purchased are bonafide.

 

[arthuruscg]

I think because you are buying goods that will be used in Florida, it wouldn't fall under the sales tax laws that are being passed. In most states the existing sales tax/use tax laws were written where as a consumer you were SUPPOSED to keep track of items bought over state lines and pay the appropriate sales taxes in your local area at the end of the year. (usually credit given for any sales taxes paid in the district purchased.). The online sales tax laws now being passed are to try and remove the loophole that has resulted in the taxes not being collected by forcing the internet seller to collect them instead of relying on the honor system of the purchaser paying them.

As the tickets are a form of admission into a physical location located in the florida district, it wouldn't be subject to the local sales taxes in maryland.

Maryland is going after taxes for any purchase where the transaction is taking place inside Maryland.

Example: I book a a 1 week stay at POFQ from my computer at home in MD. Maryland wants to collect the taxes on the stay because the purchase happened in Maryland.

 

[TheShea's]

Maryland is going after taxes for any purchase where the transaction is taking place inside Maryland.

Example: I book a a 1 week stay at POFQ from my computer at home in MD. Maryland wants to collect the taxes on the stay because the purchase happened in Maryland.

And I thought MA was bad...

 

[arthuruscg]

As for the six flags ticket analogy.... It doesn't quite work. The tickets you buy from Disney aren't a book of tickets where you get 6 individual tickets. It's more like the box of 12 individually wrapped twinkees you bought at the local supermarket. The box is labeled as "Not for Individual sale" because the item is priced cheaper for your buying in bulk than it would be if you just bought 12 twinkees by themselves. A Seller of goods has the right to apply some limitations to your ability to resell the items sold to you when they sell you something with a bulk discount applied. They can't prevent you from reselling the exact same thing they sold you, but they can limit your ability to break apart what they sold you to sell parts of it.

I don't have anything at my desk right now to verify but I believe the terminology is "Not Labled for Individual sale." This is in relation to ingredients and nutrition labeling. As long as the Twinkies are labeled, nothing is stopping me from reselling them.

 

[arthuruscg]

Maryland is going after taxes for any purchase where the transaction is taking place inside Maryland.

Example: I book a a 1 week stay at POFQ from my computer at home in MD. Maryland wants to collect the taxes on the stay because the purchase happened in Maryland.

And I thought MA was bad...

Actually this is a good thing, because I would only be paying the Maryland taxes and not the FL taxes. (about 1/2 of FL)

 

[arthuruscg]

Not sure how Disney gets the "black eye" if a family buys grey market tickets and Disney doesn't honor them. Same as if I buy scalped Red Sox tickets in Kenmore Sq. If I get to the ticket scanner at the gate and my ticket is bogus my beef isn't with the Sox, it's with the person who scammed me and actually falls squarely on my shoulders. In trying to save a buck or two I took a calculated risk and got burned.

Well if you bought the tickets thru one of the ticket resellers/ scalpers like Stubhub then the tickets would be verified.

I think Disney is not seeing the big picture. If ticket sales could only happen at the ticket office, and no 3rd party sales period, then some of this might go away. Look at how many "cheep WDW" ticket sellers are on I-95.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

~Some rent Disneyland tickets to save money~

~"A man tries to direct Disney customers to an outlet where tickets are deeply discounted."

ANAHEIM – Beth Holderness got a bad feeling as soon as she bought discount Disney tickets in a strip mall.

She found $80 tickets to attend Disneyland and Disney California Adventure on the same day, compared with the usual $125 ones. After giving her credit card number, the worker whited-out names on the passes and told her to lie to Disneyland employees about where she bought them.

At the park gate, employees figured out that the multiday tickets had previously been used by someone else – against company policy.
Disney confiscated the tickets.

Holderness' 6-year old son burst into tears. Holderness cried, too.

"I feel like a criminal, but I thought I bought legitimate tickets," Holderness recalled.

Police say there's nothing illegal about unofficial ticket agencies renting out multiday Disneyland passes by the day – a growing trade surrounding Disneyland. But Disney forbids ticket transfers.

"You do need to ask yourself why these tickets are so discounted," said Sgt. Allan Roman of Anaheim Police Department.

BUSINESS MODEL

At least nine such ticket agencies exist: in strip malls, in offices above a Chevron or inside a Shell market. All have Anaheim business licenses and operate in similar fashion:

A broker will buy multiday Disneyland passes from an authorized seller: Disney itself, certain hotels or tour operators. A five-day, park-hopper pass is $290 – so for $58 a day, the customer can go to Disneyland and California Adventure. At the gate, the single-ticket cost is $125.

The ticket agency will rent out the five-day passes by the day, for roughly $80 to $99. The agency pockets the difference, say $110 to $205 per each five-day ticket.

But Disney tickets clearly state that they are "nontransferable" and must be used by the same person on all of the days.

Most times, ticket renters avoid getting caught. Craig Neil, owner of Anaheim Tickets on a side street near Disneyland, said less than 2 percent of customers have had problems. Visitors can get refunds or new tickets, he said.

"They do check some of the tickets, but they don't check all of them," Neil said about Disney ticket takers. "Otherwise, we would not be able to stay in business."

The agencies advertise, like on Craigslist, Facebook and Twitter. One man, often smoking a cigarette and wearing a Mickey Mouse headband, holds a sign on Disneyland Drive pointing tourists to his business a few blocks away.

Inside the agencies, at least one displays a Better Business Bureau plaque. They post their business licenses on walls.

Sandra Sagert, Anaheim's community preservation manager and designated license collector, said the license descriptions state that "no resale of tickets" is allowed, and city workers warn owners about Disney's policies. But city officials couldn't point to a specific code that would be broken.

Disney tries to trip up the agencies that rent the tickets. This year, it stopped selling passes for six and seven days.

Disney employees are trained to spot reused tickets – by asking questions, requesting identification or checking to see if the passes are altered.

NEW TECHNOLOGY

Within the year, Anaheim parks plan to put in new technology that could resolve the issue, said Suzi Brown, a Disneyland Resort spokeswoman. She declined to elaborate.

"Ticket 'renting' is in violation of our policy, which clearly states that tickets must be used by the same person on any and all days," Brown said. "So that our guests are not taken advantage of, we strongly advise that they only purchase tickets at Disneyland Resort, at our hotels or through an authorized seller to ensure that tickets are valid."

In 1988, at the urging of Walt Disney World officials, who claimed Disney lost $3 million the previous year there, Florida outlawed the resale of multiday tickets. No lobbying efforts are under way for a similar law in California. Disneyland Resort declined to disclose figures about losses in Anaheim.

Walt Disney World parks and SeaWorld San Diego use biometrics – a fingerprint scanning system – for visitors using multiday passes. Brown, the Disney official in Anaheim, said that strategy won't be used here.

 

[chartle]

I feel it is not right for any company to preventing a person from reselling, period. Example: I buy a book, I should be able to sell the book to someone else. I buy 5 days worth of admission to Six Flags but only use 3 days. I should be able to sell the remaining 2 days.

Warning I only had one semester of business law in college 25 years ago so take this this for what its worth.


A book and a ticket are two completely separate things.

When you buy a book you buy the paper, the ink and the rights to read the book. You can sell it but besides being able to quote it for "Comments and Criticism" use thats about it.

A ticket is a licence (a form of a civil contract) to do something like see a movie or enter an amusement park. The only thing you really own is that piece of plastic and the rights to whatever the terms of the contract say you can do. If Disney says you can't transfer it once you start to use it you can't. It doesn't require a law at all, thats the terms you agreed to. Disney had the law passed, as others have posted, to give it some bite. If you break a contract with Disney they have to sue you and take you to court and then try to collect damages. If its a law the Police can just see you doing the bad act and slap on the cuffs.

Now back to your book analogy, the reason you know a book is copyrighted is because it says so right in the book. The leap that Disney wants to have happen is that the words "Non Transferable" are now not on the "ticket". I think that adds some legal precedent. They may have to give you some other sort of notice like it pop up when you buy the ticket online or signage at the ticket booths.

If any legal professionals read this. My Business law instructor did say he was only going to teach us enough law to get us in trouble. This is my defence.

 

[chartle]

In 1988, at the urging of Walt Disney World officials, who claimed Disney lost $3 million the previous year there, Florida outlawed the resale of multiday tickets.

I thought the Florida law started at day one. As in it was part of the deal to build WDW.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

I thought the Florida law started at day one. As in it was part of the deal to build WDW.

~Hi chartle. I have no idea, so you're probably right, lol. I just thought it was an interesting article. What caught my eye was the part I underlined below and I liked the graph, too.

NEW TECHNOLOGY

Within the year, Anaheim parks plan to put in new technology that could resolve the issue, said Suzi Brown, a Disneyland Resort spokeswoman. She declined to elaborate.

~This article was written in October of 2012, and it seems like the spokeswoman was alluding to FP+ (RFID/Magicbands), but maybe I'm just grasping at straws.

~Also, I don't think Disney is looking to go after innocent families who were duped for the first time. They just want harsh penalties for repeat offenders -- both buyers & sellers. Disney must be losing a lot of money.

 

[Rumors Rocks]

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/General...es_fine_for_re-selling_theme_park_tickets.htm

A bill was approved in the Senate today that will raise the fines for people who illegally resell theme park tickets. Orlando theme parks had been lobbying for this bill (SB 394), which would increase fines from $500 up to a maximum of $10,000. Repeat offenders will be tried for a felony, not just a misdemeanor. The bill provides an answer to Walt Disney World's new MagicBands, and now provides for their use with the changing of the legal definition of park tickets. New technologies will now be included and tickets don't just have to be the typical paper cards. One item was removed that would allow ticket buyers to resell tickets as their own personal property.

Click link for more details.

 

[eadavis]

These new revisions really don't seem that extreme, its attempting to curb fraud and abuse of a system initially designed to make extended vacations more cost effective. When Disney says they are losing money to ticket resellers, then raise the price, few people make the correlation that there is some correlation (in addition to inflation, higher cost of this and that, blah blah).