unschooling

[FireDancer]

I personally think it is a bad idea and I would never do it. In the end I really don't care though. It isn't my child so it isn't my decision. I will do what I feel is right, others can do what they feel is right, and I won't get involved. I am very hands off with other people's lives unless they are breaking the law and even then I am very hesitant to get involved.

The to home school or not to home school debate I think isn't a one or the other. I think too often there is no additional education at home. True, some things that should be taught at school aren't in all situations (how credit cards work, how the stock market works, balancing a check book) but those things can be discussed at home in addition to formal school. I'm not saying homeschooling is wrong, I have no preference either way, but I think that there is a lot of room for parents to have more input into their kids life to supplement a formal education instead of having to replace it or settle.

For example, I work in computers so I can guarantee I will spend a lot of time at home teaching my children about technology at a much younger age then they will get it at school. My mom started in 4th grade teaching us about finance, the first time I had that in school was the Junior Achievement program in 7th grade.

 

[castleview]

As a parent who homeschools and who has just finished two hours of Algebra 1 with my 8th grade son, I would like to meet the genius who knows how to teach Algebra 1 and Geometry using the unschooling method.

I can see how unschooling could be used with very young students, but I don't see how it is possible with older children. Becoming familiar with a topic is one thing, but learning the concepts usually requires structure and incremental learning especially in the older grades. I don't understand how unschoolings achieves that.

That was my thought. When she said, "if they become interested in algebra, then they can...", as if they can pick it up without the basic math they apparently haven't done over the years, I nearly fell over.

 

[FayeW]

Not in my state, thank goodness. My children do not belong to the government. It is not the state's responsibility to test my children to see if they know the capitals of the states or if they get 30 minutes of exercise a day or if they sleep eight hours at night. The raising and educating of children is the right and responsibility of the parents. Not every parent does things in the same way.

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It kinda is the government's responsibility to insure that it's citizens are at least minimally educated, don't you think? After all if a child grows up to be functionally illiterate, with limited education and no marketable skills, the government is going to have to step in with welfare, subsidized housing, medical care.

Unless of course government "interference" only applies when they are telling you what to do, not when they are writing the cheques.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We don't get serious about formal academics until ages 8-10. There is a developmental shift that occurs then that allows children to think in more concrete terms.

Of course, they are learning long before that! But it's more unschooling-ish in the early years.

It seems to be working. Our fourteen year old started college this year and has a 4.0.

Well by formal--I mean that they get about an hour of something that is called "school". Basic math, learning to read--basic basic stuff. (and it usually doesn't even take the full hour).

I was just commenting on the fact that folks are shocked that a 4-5 year old was "homeschooled" via "unschooling". The optional teeth brushing was kind of nasty though.

 

[VillageMama]

It kinda is the government's responsibility to insure that it's citizens are at least minimally educated, don't you think?

No, it is not the government's responsibility to insure that its citizens are educated. That's impossible, anyway. Look at what a bang up job they are doing within their schools, in many cases.

It is the government's responsibility to provide an opportunity for its citizens to become educated. Parents can choose to avail themselves of that option or to choose a different path.

If we accept that the state has the right to test students' academic knowledge, what's to stop the state from assuming the right to test children's physical health?

After all, childhood obesity is a growing problem. It may well cost the state money in terms of disability payments, drains on Medicare and Medicaid, etc... Maybe the government ought to be testing each child's BMI and forcing the ones who don't meet their standards to attend fat camp.

I genuinely understand and share the desire to see all children be raised in the best environment possible. Unfortunately there will always be some who get less than ideal care. But I firmly resist the idea that the government should oversee parenting unless it is truly a dangerous situation.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It kinda is the government's responsibility to insure that it's citizens are at least minimally educated, don't you think? After all if a child grows up to be functionally illiterate, with limited education and no marketable skills, the government is going to have to step in with welfare, subsidized housing, medical care.

Unless of course government "interference" only applies when they are telling you what to do, not when they are writing the cheques.

This can be done without standardized testing though.

FTR--I do have my oldest tested. Youngest wants it, but no groups offer it that young anymore. So I'll order the CAT, I think b/c I can self test that.

Thus far, even though submitting the results is an option, I don't utilize that option. I have a portfolio review with a certified teacher who is able to confirm my child is being educated within the parameters set by the state.

And no--a PE requirement for homeschoolers is silly. When we had the option to choose VA or MD to move, my biggest turnoff to the MD state law for homeschoolers was their PE requirement. It made no sense. I can understand making sure my kid has English or Math....but PE? And thus many business offer homeschooling classes to meet that requirement. I guess the state is more concerned that a student isn't lazy than they are about their brain.

 

[CathrynRose]

I personally think it is a bad idea and I would never do it. In the end I really don't care though. It isn't my child so it isn't my decision. I will do what I feel is right, others can do what they feel is right, and I won't get involved. I am very hands off with other people's lives .

This is how I feel. I don't care.

Illinois has just about the most lax laws in the country, too. To think my son could be sleeping to noon, and playing video games to the wee hours of the night. I'm a mean mom.

Joking aside - to an extent....to an extent I kind of, sort of agree with 'unschooling'. Why have a child read a book, they have no interest in, spend hours reading, and they don't even like it. Why not have that child read a book they *do* have interest in? They'll certainly remember it longer, and enjoy the whole experience more.

ETA - has anyone ever read The Teenage Liberation Handbook? It's a great read, IMO - and explains *why* unschool.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

For my edification, how does one go about the unschooling the principles of calculus?

 

[FayeW]

No, it is not the government's responsibility to insure that its citizens are educated. That's impossible, anyway. Look at what a bang up job they are doing within their schools, in many cases.

It is the government's responsibility to provide an opportunity for its citizens to become educated. Parents can choose to avail themselves of that option or to choose a different path.

If we accept that the state has the right to test students' academic knowledge, what's to stop the state from assuming the right to test children's physical health, ?

After all, childhood obesity is a growing problem. It may well cost the state money in terms of disability payments, drains on Medicare and Medicaid, etc... Maybe the government ought to be testing each child's BMI and forcing the ones who don't meet their standards to attend fat camp.

I genuinely understand and share the desire to see all children be raised in the best environment possible. Unfortunately there will always be some who get less than ideal care. But I firmly resist the idea that the government should oversee parenting unless it is truly a dangerous situation.

Unfortunately for the taxpayers who have to pick up the slack, not all parents can be trusted to parent appropriately and the government should set minimum standards for education.

I live in a country where our children participate in standardized testing several times throughout their school careers. It helps to make sure they are not slipping through the cracks so to speak, and will help to identify any difficulties they may be having with the key fundamentals. I would think that most parents would be appreciative of that rather than condemning of the government for mandating it. As a matter of fact, I've never heard of anyone having issue with it here.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

For my edification, how does one go about the unschooling the principles of calculus?

I don't know many unschoolers--they kind of segregate themselves from us other crazy homeschoolers (seriously, they do)....


But for a family that isn't too out there that "unschools their child and follows their interest", if a child has a vested interest in math, it isn't that they'd refuse to EVER buy a textbook or ever refuse to teach it..but they'd follow that child's lead.

I tracked myself to Calc in public school--as I learned there was higher and higher levels of math, I could not get enough of it or learn it fast enough.


OT--I don't have the link anymore...but I did come across an article a while ago, where an unschooler got into Harvard. I'll have to search that link. I do personally believe they are the exception to the rule as far as "unschooling" goes. I'll go see if I can find it. I have no idea if they were unschooled in Calculus.

ETA: This wasn't the article I was thinking of, but an article on an unschooler who did get into college: http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/0710/unschooled_teens_go_to_college.htm


I think this is the article I had read:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1989/3/16/homeschoolers-are-at-home-at-harvard/


I also believe that these particular students had the ability to function well with unschooling. A less motivated child with perhaps more of a bit....out there parent....would likely not do as well.
It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for an unschool show that same level of interest....so long as they get to learn about math in the first place.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

We don't get serious about formal academics until ages 8-10. There is a developmental shift that occurs then that allows children to think in more concrete terms.

Of course, they are learning long before that! But it's more unschooling-ish in the early years.

It seems to be working. Our fourteen year old started college this year and has a 4.0.

Well there ya go! "Proof" that unschooling until 8 - 10, then homeschooling is the way to go.

It kinda is the government's responsibility to insure that it's citizens are at least minimally educated, don't you think? After all if a child grows up to be functionally illiterate, with limited education and no marketable skills, the government is going to have to step in with welfare, subsidized housing, medical care.

Unless of course government "interference" only applies when they are telling you what to do, not when they are writing the cheques.

Exactly.

Joking aside - to an extent....to an extent I kind of, sort of agree with 'unschooling'. Why have a child read a book, they have no interest in, spend hours reading, and they don't even like it. Why not have that child read a book they *do* have interest in? They'll certainly remember it longer, and enjoy the whole experience more.

The whole issue is hardly about being able to read books they like (unschooling) vs books they don't like (school). Those poor little (educated) darlings who didn't ENJOY the whole experience of reading a book they didn't like. I wonder how many doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, nurses, etc actually had to read things they didn't enjoy.

Funny thing...I actually found that I DID enjoy books that I "had to" read in school, that I never would have chosen otherwise.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well there ya go! "Proof" that unschooling until 8 - 10, then homeschooling is the way to go.

Actually there is much to show that going "formal" earlier doesn't necessarily guarantee better results later. It's just what this country knows and how it is set up.

 

[Aisling]

The teenage girl on GMA made me chuckle. When she was asked if she was prepared for college, she said no, but if she decides to go to college, "I'll pick up a textbook and learn".

 

[Inigo]

Depends on the state.

There are a couple of states at least--that really have no requirements at all.

What one state requires hasn't anything to do with another state.

In my state--testing is an option, but it isn't mandatory.

In Indiana, all you have to do is say you're home schooling. You don't have to actually do anything. There is an option, on the state DOE website, to register as a homeschool, but it's completely optional.

We get so many kids going through on probation that are "home schooled" that have absolutely no education going on in their lives. The judge requires them to show their home schooling materials to us (probation) weekly to prove they are doing something.

 

[Aisling]

I can only IMAGINE what my kids would want to study. The eco-system of Bikini Bottom. The culture of Pokemon. Urban planning for Littlest Pet Shops. Fashion design for cats. While I am sure I could find a way to make those things educational, I would rather not.

I know what you mean!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In Indiana, all you have to do is say you're home schooling. You don't have to actually do anything. There is an option, on the state DOE website, to register as a homeschool, but it's completely optional.

We get so many kids going through on probation that are "home schooled" that have absolutely no education going on in their lives. The judge requires them to show their home schooling materials to us (probation) weekly to prove they are doing something.

According to a relative of my DH who homeschooled both of her children in MI, MI is that way as well.

I'm fine with limited accountability--the "no accountability" thing just seems weird. I also don't like maximum accountability where some states want a documented, regimented, recreated public school at home type thing. Some mandate hours per day, days per year. Our current curriculum would be completely non-complaint in those states even though it is more than adequate to accomplish the work.

To me that is overkill when states do that.

 

[Buckalew11]

I am acountable to yearly testing, curriculum being approved, PE and Bible required, days present (180) w/ a report turned in 4 times a year, grades turned in 1st and 2nd semesters, a detailed report of every class she takes and details of what she did in each class and a grade.

I am accountable for 6 homeschooling continueing ed type of things for myself.

Homeschooling is a lot of work, my daughter is a sophomore and each year the work is more and harder, but worth it.

Unschooling would not work for us. I do not know enough to make any type of judgements because I just don't understand it and know it is wrong for us. DD is structured. She's up by 7 a.m. doing school and usually finishes somewhere between 1 and 3/3:30. High school takes a lot of TIME.

 

[Tinkermommy]

My sister is a big advocate of homeschooling. She has a set curriculum that my nephews follow. They are not the most motivated kids so don't think they would be good candidates for unschoolers.

We choose to have our DD in school. I don't ever see myself homeschooling. But to each his own.

Now my DD is very inquisitive so if she wants to learn about something, we do get her books, go on the computer, take her places, etc to learn about that subject. I am sure we will do the same for her brother when he's older.

So perhaps she has extracurricular unschooling. I am sure she will have summer unschooling as well.

 

[MiniGirl]

In Indiana, all you have to do is say you're home schooling. You don't have to actually do anything. There is an option, on the state DOE website, to register as a homeschool, but it's completely optional.

We get so many kids going through on probation that are "home schooled" that have absolutely no education going on in their lives. The judge requires them to show their home schooling materials to us (probation) weekly to prove they are doing something.

There could be more going on here. Several months ago I met someone who worked for our local school board. He actually worked in the truancy department of the school board. He mentioned that the latest method for dealing with truancy problems was to suggest that parents register as "homeschoolers." This way if the parents were unwilling or unable to get Junior to school they could "homeschool" and get the school board off their back. For the parents, they were no longer responsible for getting their child to school and no longer had to deal with truancy laws, etc. For the district, they no longer had to spend resources on students who were obviously not going to go to school no matter what. Also, it lowered drop out rates as somehow unenrolling to homeschool is counted differently than a drop out.

Obviously, I'm not saying that is going on in every case, but I think it is wrong to assume that it isn't the case in some of these instances.

 

[VillageMama]

It seems to be working. Our fourteen year old started college this year and has a 4.0.

Well there ya go! "Proof" that unschooling until 8 - 10, then homeschooling is the way to go.

I don't understand... what better proof is there?

I'm not saying that our approach would be the best one for every family, but it looks pretty obvious to me that it's working for us.