unschooling

[allison443]

There's very few children who will not become bums if they have no education. It was sad to see how the two unschooled teenagers answered the question about college. How do these kids expect to make it through college if they know nothing about what the textbook is talking about? Do they even know how to read or write or do math or know the history of our country? It just a sad situation those parents are putting their kids in

I have to say that the two teenagers they interviewed on GMA did not seem particularly well spoken or well informed about the "choices" their parents have allowed them to make. I would have liked the teens to explain what they were self-directing themselves to learn. They didn't seem to be interested in any particular field . The parents also didn't seem to have a clear picture of what exactly their children were learning or what they will do in the future.

 

[binny]

I loved how the interviewer asked about when the boy did go to school he said something about "not liking it" she said "You were SEVEN how did you know??"

I think thats a lot of the point here. How many things have your kids been interested in, then wanted to quit?

My son was all excited to play football one year so we enrolled him. he hated it but we made him stick with it because he made a commitment to it. He didnt have to sign up the next year but he did have to fulfill his commitment to the team.

How many things are these kids going to get interested in and then say "Well I thought I liked it but now I want to learn about...." So they wouldnt have any idea about sticking to something or how to get depth of information if they lose interest.

These parents arent making them do anything they dont want to do. So why do anything hard or challenging? Why learn persistence?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I loved how the interviewer asked about when the boy did go to school he said something about "not liking it" she said "You were SEVEN how did you know??"

I think thats a lot of the point here. How many things have your kids been interested in, then wanted to quit?

My son was all excited to play football one year so we enrolled him. he hated it but we made him stick with it because he made a commitment to it. He didnt have to sign up the next year but he did have to fulfill his commitment to the team.

How many things are these kids going to get interested in and then say "Well I thought I liked it but now I want to learn about...." So they wouldnt have any idea about sticking to something or how to get depth of information if they lose interest.

These parents arent making them do anything they dont want to do. So why do anything hard or challenging? Why learn persistence?

I think that is more of a parenting issue as opposed to an "education choice" issue.

I have met parents in traditional schooling environments that are the same way.

 

[Planogirl]

Maybe, maybe not.

In College you do go to pursue your interests. There may be coursework along the wy that you don't agree with--but usually there are plenty of options on how to accomplish that coursework. (I did no lab-sciences as part of my degree. I had a disdain for science, I had a love for my major and no lab science for me.)

Unlike secondary public school--you usually have a wider range of choices to accomodate your interests.

Now if you want to go into medicine but dont' want to do a lab science at all--you'll have a big awakening.

Also--as far as career, I don't like science--so I did not pursue a science career.

I was public schooled--but I'm just posting this to say, that there are many options available to students and it is the rare student that is forced into a classroom they don't want to be in in college.

I don't know... There are the basics that all college students have to take. Then there are the prerequisites. Plus professors give tests on specified dates and require papers that meet certain guidelines by certain dates. It sounds like some of the unschoolers just do what they want when they want which would never fit in a typical college environment even if it is more easygoing that high school.

I guess that a complete lack of structure baffles me. But I can understand that this is not typical.

 

[Momvic5]

I just want share my great news....I have been homeschooling my 3 children for the last 4 years. My oldest who is now 14 years old wants to return to public school next school year. He will be entering into the 9th grade. We have been up to the school several times trying to get all of the information and documents that we will need in order for him to make a smooth entry.

When I first contacted the school, I talked to person who will be my son's counselor. She immediately made a snarky remark about homeschooling...nothing I haven't heard before, but it kind of set a mood with me because I thought she was already attaching a stigma to my son. My son is excited and ready to go back so I decided to let her comment go in one ear and out the other. We set up a time to meet and discuss his possible schedule.

At the start of our meeting, she wanted to put him into all of the basic 9th grade classes, but after discussing our homeschool curriculum and talking with my son, she mentioned that I could allow him to take a few Credit by Exam tests to see if he could be placed in some of the more advanced classes. I decided to let him take the exams.

The counselor called this morning with his test results. Her exact words were, "He did exceptional on all of his exams." He will be placed in all of the advanced classes. She even, in a round about way, apologized for her quick and critical judgement on his homeschool past.

Though it is frustrating, I understand why so many people are critical of and quick to judge homeschooling. It is families like those featured on GMA that cause many to be concerned. Homeschooling is one of the best decisions I have ever made for my family(we do not use the unschooling method), and I think that there are far more successful homeschoolers than there are not successful homeschoolers. Controversy makes for good television though, and so those are the type of stories that are going to be featured.

 

[Planogirl]

Good for you MomVic5! Isn't it great when kids do so well?

I see nothing wrong with homeschooling personally. I think that both it and public schools are fine options. I just wonder about this unschooling method...

 

[binny]

I think that is more of a parenting issue as opposed to an "education choice" issue.

I have met parents in traditional schooling environments that are the same way.

True, but if thats the only way theyre getting any education then they are not learning enough. At least those in school or well homeschooled have another basis for learning. They have to learn about some things they dont want to, its just part of the deal. I would have never learned math if I had my choice I *really* dislike it. I had to learn it though because it was part of the curriculum.

 

[Tricia1972]

I don't really think that anyone here is slamming homeschooling overall. It sounds like the bigger issue is with complete unschooling. Not even so much unschooling where the parents work to create lessons within their child's interests.

The issue seems to be the unschooling where the kids are basically on summer vacation for their entire formative years. These their kids get up around noon, watch TV, play video games, surf the web, and then go to bed at night.

I've read the mothering.com site, and it seems to be pretty common that kids that are unschooled in that fashion end up being in 3-4th grade before they can read the simplest of books. The parents aren't concerned, because their kids will read 'when they want to'. I've even read of parents on mothering.com who admit that their kids aren't in school because they can't be bothered to get up and get their kids there in the morning.

That's the kind of unschooling that makes my blood run cold when I think of the future of America.

The home schooled, and unschooled kids who are nurtured by their parents are much more likely to become productive members of society. Perhaps even more productive than many traditionally schooled kids. But that debate is probably for another thread.

 

[binny]

I don't really think that anyone here is slamming homeschooling overall. It sounds like the bigger issue is with complete unschooling. Not even so much unschooling where the parents work to create lessons within their child's interests.

The issue seems to be the unschooling where the kids are basically on summer vacation for their entire formative years. These their kids get up around noon, watch TV, play video games, surf the web, and then go to bed at night.

I've read the mothering.com site, and it seems to be pretty common that kids that are unschooled in that fashion end up being in 3-4th grade before they can read the simplest of books. The parents aren't concerned, because their kids will read 'when they want to'. I've even read of parents on mothering.com who admit that their kids aren't in school because they can't be bothered to get up and get their kids there in the morning.

That's the kind of unschooling that makes my blood run cold when I think of the future of America.

The home schooled, and unschooled kids who are nurtured by their parents are much more likely to become productive members of society. Perhaps even more productive than many traditionally schooled kids. But that debate is probably for another thread.

exactly well said Tricia!

There are plenty of lazy parents everywhere. Its one thing to be lazy when your kid is in school and another all together when their entire education rest solely on the lazy parents shoulders.

 

[princessmom29]

Personally, I agree. That's why I choose to give my children standardized placement tests. It gives me a sense of how my children are doing compared to the nation's children. I find that information helpful (and reassuring).

But there's a big difference between a parent choosing standardized testing and the government requiring it. For one thing, I can do something with the information. I can adjust our curriculum or our teaching methods.

The idea that giving school children these tests to make sure that no one slips through the cracks sounds good but has no real life application. If the majority of the class scores well in mathematics, but Susie doesn't... well, sucks to be Susie. Nothing changes for an individual based on those tests.

I asked before... what if a homeschooling child doesn't do well on the state mandated test? Then what? Does the state require the child be placed in the local public school? What if there are children in the school who also fail the test?

Until the state run schools can guarantee that they can educate every individual student, then the state needs to stay out of my individual children's lives.

There will always be students who slip through the cracks in school and there will always be those who claim to be "homeschooling". Bad cases make bad law, though. The government does what it can in offering a school option but it is impossible for the state to guarantee success.

I am responding as a public school teacher to the bolded part. I look at EVERY SAT10 scores for EVERY child I teach, broken down by content area and compared to the objectives we use. If I have a child that didn't score well on a particular objective on th 8th grade SAT10 then I know that this particular child will likely struggle with it in my 9th grade class. I can be on the lookout for them to have trouble and provide extra help or tutoring to fill the gap. Having that knowledge beforehand is EXTREMELY useful to me, and i think does make a difference for the individual children I teach.

All of our students who do not meet proficiency are placed in remediation classes in an effort to help bridge the skill gaps present. We will seperate them according to what specific area they are having difficulty in. For example there are several reading remediation classes. One might foucs on comprehension, while another focuses on fluency. We truly do make the effort to educate EVERY child that we teach.
This is more of a general comment:
I just don't get the anger here. The vast majority of public school teachers want nothing more than to see every child in their care be the best that they can be. I have NO problem with a parent choosing to educate their child at home. There is absolutely ntohing wrong with choosing that path for your child, but does that automatically make it best for every child out there?? Why is there the need to attack educational institutions in general ?? I adore my child's school, and would not have her anywhere else including home with me. She is getting an excellent education. I am capable of educating her myself at home, but I cannot porvide the social interaction she gets at school. She is a very social child, and loves to participate in school plays, cheerleading, sports, ect. She really enjoys the whole culture of school. When given the choice between returning to class after tha school play yesterday or going home she chose to return to school, because she loves being there. I just don't see how something that makes my child light up the way being in class with her friends does could be a bad thing. I just don't think that homeschool is the best for every child.

 

[npmommie]

The issue seems to be the unschooling where the kids are basically on summer vacation for their entire formative years. These their kids get up around noon, watch TV, play video games, surf the web, and then go to bed at night.

I've read the mothering.com site, and it seems to be pretty common that kids that are unschooled in that fashion end up being in 3-4th grade before they can read the simplest of books. The parents aren't concerned, because their kids will read 'when they want to'. I've even read of parents on mothering.com who admit that their kids aren't in school because they can't be bothered to get up and get their kids there in the morning.

That's the kind of unschooling that makes my blood run cold when I think of the future of America.

The home schooled, and unschooled kids who are nurtured by their parents are much more likely to become productive members of society. Perhaps even more productive than many traditionally schooled kids. But that debate is probably for another thread.

Highlighted part is so true!!
The mothering dot com posts about unschooling and not being able to get the kids to school,
That is NOT unschooling!!!!

I belong to a statewide homeschool yahoo group, the mom featured on GMA is also on that group since she lives here,
she posted about all the information GMA left out of her interview, she posted about how they staged the kids playing video and watching tv........
She posted about all the things GMA left out that would have given a clearer picture of what a good unschooling family's life is really like.

I didn't read thru this thread but wanted to add my 2 cents

Unschooling is a bad word in my opinion, I prefer child led learning.
Parents that unschool properly do a very hard job.
We homescool but we are not unschoolers in the traditional sense because we do use some curriculum.
not always, but we do follow math curriculum at the very least.
But we are relaxed homeschoolers, not "school at home", my kids learned to read by the time they were 4..........My first I spent a lot of time on phonics curriculum and "teaching" her, my youngest I didn't do any of that, he just picked it up from being read to so much I think.

anyway, unschooling done properly can be a wonderful thing. We will never be unschoolers only for the fact that my kids actually love doing their math workbooks........LOL.....

Here are a couple of links to some great unschoolers,
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://sandradodd.com/

 

[CathrynRose]

I wonder how many doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, nurses, etc actually had to read things they didn't enjoy.
.

I'm sure they did - we all had to. But do they remember them? Did they just go through the motions, so they could do the test on it? KWIM?

I (again, JMHO) feel that forcing books on kids, can turn them off from reading. I'd rather kids LOVED reading, reading things that made their wheels turn, and they they retained years down the road. That's all.

I don't understand... what better proof is there?

I'm not saying that our approach would be the best one for every family, but it looks pretty obvious to me that it's working for us.

These lazy parents are doing a huge disservice to their children.

I think a true unschooling and/or homeschooling parent, would be less lazy than a parent who send their child off to school for 7 hours a day. If they're participating in their child's education, it's far from lazy.

 

[ols386]

I don't really think that anyone here is slamming homeschooling overall. It sounds like the bigger issue is with complete unschooling. Not even so much unschooling where the parents work to create lessons within their child's interests.

The issue seems to be the unschooling where the kids are basically on summer vacation for their entire formative years. These their kids get up around noon, watch TV, play video games, surf the web, and then go to bed at night.

I've read the mothering.com site, and it seems to be pretty common that kids that are unschooled in that fashion end up being in 3-4th grade before they can read the simplest of books. The parents aren't concerned, because their kids will read 'when they want to'. I've even read of parents on mothering.com who admit that their kids aren't in school because they can't be bothered to get up and get their kids there in the morning.

That's the kind of unschooling that makes my blood run cold when I think of the future of America.

The home schooled, and unschooled kids who are nurtured by their parents are much more likely to become productive members of society. Perhaps even more productive than many traditionally schooled kids. But that debate is probably for another thread.

I don't exactly agree or disagree with the bolded statement, but how do you know that? Is there a way to measure it?

 

[Tricia1972]

I don't exactly agree or disagree with the bolded statement, but how do you know that? Is there a way to measure it?

Because I can't believe that kids that are unschooled in the "ignore them and they will thrive" method are as likely to be as productive in society as kids who are truly unschooled or homeschooled. (Traditional schooling has nothing to do with my bolded statement)

(My measurement is based upon posts from moms at mothering.com who "ignore" their kids to educate them. there seems to be no way that they'll be as productive later on in life)

 

[ols386]

Because I can't believe that kids that are unschooled in the "ignore them and they will thrive" method are as likely to be as productive in society as kids who are truly unschooled or homeschooled. (Traditional schooling has nothing to do with my bolded statement)
(My measurement is based upon posts from moms at mothering.com who "ignore" their kids to educate them. there seems to be no way that they'll be as productive later on in life)

OK, I see what you're saying.

 

[Tricia1972]

OK, I see what you're saying.

Sorry I wasn't clear to begin with. I thought that the following sentence was the qualifier that traditional schooling had nothing to do with the original bolded statement. My bad.

 

[tink_lover]

Highlighted part is so true!!
The mothering dot com posts about unschooling and not being able to get the kids to school,
That is NOT unschooling!!!!

I belong to a statewide homeschool yahoo group, the mom featured on GMA is also on that group since she lives here,
she posted about all the information GMA left out of her interview, she posted about how they staged the kids playing video and watching tv........
She posted about all the things GMA left out that would have given a clearer picture of what a good unschooling family's life is really like.

I didn't read thru this thread but wanted to add my 2 cents

Unschooling is a bad word in my opinion, I prefer child led learning.
Parents that unschool properly do a very hard job.
We homescool but we are not unschoolers in the traditional sense because we do use some curriculum.
not always, but we do follow math curriculum at the very least.
But we are relaxed homeschoolers, not "school at home", my kids learned to read by the time they were 4..........My first I spent a lot of time on phonics curriculum and "teaching" her, my youngest I didn't do any of that, he just picked it up from being read to so much I think.

anyway, unschooling done properly can be a wonderful thing. We will never be unschoolers only for the fact that my kids actually love doing their math workbooks........LOL.....

Here are a couple of links to some great unschoolers,
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://sandradodd.com/

This is where I just have fundamental differences with the unschooling idea. This thread took a turn discussing homeschooling - which I stated a couple of times wasn't the issue. The issue is that my SIL is unschooling and her kids (my opinion) are not learning things they should be learning. I don't believe kids should choose the direction of what they will learn. Most kids would probably choose to be unschooled if given a choice -hey I would have loved to sit around, play, eat whatever I wanted, sleep whenever I wanted - it is the job of the parent to direct the child, not the other way around.

 

[npmommie]

This is where I just have fundamental differences with the unschooling idea. This thread took a turn discussing homeschooling - which I stated a couple of times wasn't the issue. The issue is that my SIL is unschooling and her kids (my opinion) are not learning things they should be learning. I don't believe kids should choose the direction of what they will learn. Most kids would probably choose to be unschooled if given a choice -hey I would have loved to sit around, play, eat whatever I wanted, sleep whenever I wanted - it is the job of the parent to direct the child, not the other way around.

Not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know her kids are not learning what they should?
and who says what they "should" learn and "when" they should learn it?

so if they don't learn to add and subtract by 1st grade, they learn by second, what is the harm? just using that as an example.
but you could substitute any subject any grade into that sentence.

yes, if a child is college bound yes they will need to prepare for sat's etc in high school, and they can do that.

but what if a child is gifted in something that doesn't necessarily need a college degree?

and you are assuming that child led means the child will choose nothing. that is not the case, at least in my experience.
and many many others that I know of that unschool.

like I said I can't call myself an unschooler traditionally because we have a math curriculum that we use, but we use it because the kids love it, its fun for them, I wouldn't use it otherwise.

we also do unit studies which the kids pick the topic, right now its astronomy/earth science, and I incorporate everything into it.........
its fun for the kids, they are learning, and having a great time doing it.
its not forced.

I know a lot of radical unschoolers around here, and the ones I am close too have bright kids, who are learning, not playing video games all day long
but thats my experience.

 

[Wall-E1]

This is where I just have fundamental differences with the unschooling idea. This thread took a turn discussing homeschooling - which I stated a couple of times wasn't the issue. The issue is that my SIL is unschooling and her kids (my opinion) are not learning things they should be learning. I don't believe kids should choose the direction of what they will learn. Most kids would probably choose to be unschooled if given a choice -hey I would have loved to sit around, play, eat whatever I wanted, sleep whenever I wanted - it is the job of the parent to direct the child, not the other way around.

I agree. My lazy kid would love to be unschooled. Of course if that happened, all of his education will be learned from South Park.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I just don't get the anger here. The vast majority of public school teachers (INSTEAD OF SCHOOL TEACHERS, I WILL USE THE BROADER TERM 'EDUCATORS' INCLUDING STAFF GOING ALL THE WAY UP TO ADMINSTRATION) want nothing more than to see every child in their care be the best that they can be. I have NO problem with a parent choosing to educate their child at home. There is absolutely ntohing wrong with choosing that path for your child, but does that automatically make it best for every child out there?? Why is there the need to attack educational institutions in general ??

You sound like a wonderful and intelligent teacher!

I do feel compelled to answer your questions.
This is with NO disrespect to you personally... none at all.

In my experience (as the mother of an at risk child with some learning disabilities) I simply have NOT found your statement (bolded above) to be true. Quite the opposite. Honestly, if I had not found the huge percentage of teachers here to not care any less, to be adversarial, to knowingly let kids like my son fall thru the cracks, and to suffer emotionally and academically, then my son might still be enrolled in school. Believe me, it would be SO much easier to drop my son off at school than to try to meet the demands of home-schooling every day. I could be living easy. Or, I could be working and bringing in much needed income for my family, etc.

I did not just wake up one day and decide to be judgemental and angry and to attack our educational system. You have to trust me when I say that is just not true. Far from it.

In my experience, my views have been formed and validated by what my son and I have dealt with.

And, yes, clearly there are problems in our educational system today.