Unofficial Disneyland tour guides

[MillauFr]

It's up to Disney whether or not this is illegal.

Maybe I am wrong but I didn't think any private corporation could write laws. Only a government entity can do that. Disney can set and enforce policies. The worst thing that Disney would probably do was just ask you to leave the park. If you refused they could call the police and have you arrested for trespassing, but I doubt it would ever go that far.

 

[ddwlms]

Yes, they do frown on it. I happen to know of "Patrick". "Patrick" also has several other guides who work with her. Most are former VIP guides who were fired from Disney for various reasons.

It kind of sounds like Disney does not really frown upon it. Per the link: http://www.mouseplanet.com/10441/Tour_Guides_Under_Fire

Her case went to trial last year. During the proceedings, Disney management testified that they had no problem with her actual business and her providing private tours of the park. Their problem—and what violated the terms of her AP—was the cast member photo on her business card (implying she was a Disneyland employee or that her business was affiliated with or endorsed by Disneyland), the Mickey and castle images on her card (violating the company's trademarks), and her possession of the pilfered special-acces passes.

And that kind of makes sense that Disney would not mind in the case of organized tours where you see the guy with the flag. He organizes a tour, probably of Southern California, that could include DL or not include DL. It is to Disney's benefit that the tour includes DL. (I know, not exactly the same as a family that is already going to DL with or without a paid guide.)

-FWIW, I don't really have an opinion on whether Mouse Expeditions is right or wrong. But I suspect that if Disney really minded, they would do something to stop them. - I am personally the official tour guide and trip organizer for most my family and friends and don't get paid a dime. (but have received a couple of nice thank you gifts)

 

[bbeagle]

Maybe I am wrong but I didn't think any private corporation could write laws. Only a government entity can do that. Disney can set and enforce policies. The worst thing that Disney would probably do was just ask you to leave the park. If you refused they could call the police and have you arrested for trespassing, but I doubt it would ever go that far.

Disney can't have you jailed in the outside world for breaking their 'rules', but they can force you into the outside world for breaking their 'rules'.

 

[lilpooh108]

I have also been there when groups have been escorted out after spots were held/bought for Fantasmic!

I'm glad to hear it. And for those who defend PAID spot holders --- here is the difference. You cannot physically be in 2 places at the same time. So either you're at a ride/restaurant or you're holding a spot. Paid spot holders are well, taking up space that otherwise may not be held if that family were on a ride. Sure, the family can leave a family member, etc., but then that's one less person at another attraction. People add up, you do the math. It's already crowded enough.

I'm glad to hear this. I'm sorry, but these "tour guides" really make me angry (so do those who use then knowing its not all legitimate and above board). They prey on families and people who are just trying to make the best memories that they can. You honestly don't need a tour guide at DLR.

Exactly. And I'm sure it doesn't bother people in the abstract, but if you ever walk by Fantasmic and see a sea of "blankets" holding spaces by organized illegal tour guides, it will matter.

I personally think this issue will come to a head.

It kind of sounds like Disney does not really frown upon it. Per the link: http://www.mouseplanet.com/10441/Tour_Guides_Under_Fire

I disagree. Disney can't argue that they have a problem with Patrick's business per se. They were probably being sued for illegal interference of business; so they can't say they have a problem with her business.

They can say, per the license (right to enter) on the ticket or AP you hold, that you can't do certain things on property. A stronger argument (the one they used) was that Patrick was misrepresenting to her customers that her tours were sanctioned by Disney since she had on CM clothing and that she was misusing GAC passes, on property, in violation of the license.

IMO, all of this will be moot at some point when FP+ comes over to Disneyland. But I'm sure the unofficial guides will find a new way to survive. I'm sure the new FP rules already have changed their game plan.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

Maybe I am wrong but I didn't think any private corporation could write laws. Only a government entity can do that. Disney can set and enforce policies. The worst thing that Disney would probably do was just ask you to leave the park. If you refused they could call the police and have you arrested for trespassing, but I doubt it would ever go that far.

They wouldn't ask you to leave the park. They very literally would order you out, which they can legally do under pain of arrest for trespassing if you refuse to leave. Meaning you could be arrested for staying, or if they bar you permanently, from managing to get back in. Which, if you were barred, you wouldn't be able to do, since your name, likeness, and any associated ticketing and payment media, would be on a resort-wide blacklist that would legally keep you entirely out of DLR--the whole resort--again under pain of arrest as a trespasser. And if anyone doesn't think Disney would go this far, then why do you think the Anaheim police have a substation backstage? People are thrown out of DLR all the time. It just doesn't happen on stage in full view via the front gate.

 

[DarthMole]

They prey on families and people who are just trying to make the best memories that they can.

How exactly are they preying on the families who hire them? They offer a service, they are upfront about what they provide and how much it costs, and the family decides if there is value in hiring them. There's nothing predatory about that. All the arguments about their legitimacy are fair. So are the debates on if such a service is really needed. I just don't believe an unofficial tour guide is taking advantage of their customer. Preying on Disney and taking advantage of the AP program... quite possibly.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

How exactly are they preying on the families who hire them? They offer a service, they are upfront about what they provide and how much it costs, and the family decides if there is value in hiring them. There's nothing predatory about that. All the arguments about their legitimacy are fair. So are the debates on if such a service is really needed. I just don't believe an unofficial tour guide is taking advantage of their customer. Preying on Disney and taking advantage of the AP program... quite possibly.

Don't you think if the place you're touring says you aren't allowed to be there as a paid tour, could get thrown out, be publicly embarrassed, have your ruined, and potentially be barred from coming back counts as preying? How many DLR tour guides explain all that to their customers? I think it's also preying on regular park visitors, who are actually allowed to be there and yet May lose places in line, Fastpasses, and viewing spots to groups who aren't supposed to be there.

 

[DarthMole]

Don't you think if the place you're touring says you aren't allowed to be there as a paid tour, could get thrown out, be publicly embarrassed, have your ruined, and potentially be barred from coming back counts as preying? How many DLR tour guides explain all that to their customers? I think it's also preying on regular park visitors, who are actually allowed to be there and yet May lose places in line, Fastpasses, and viewing spots to groups who aren't supposed to be there.

Your assumptions are a little far fetched but I see what you're saying. I'm still not sure Disney bars paid tours. All I'm seeing is abuse of the AP and misrepresentation by using the company trademarks and images. There's a lot of jumping to conclusions going on and not a lot of evidence to back it up so far.

 

[Malcon10t]

Maybe I am wrong but I didn't think any private corporation could write laws. Only a government entity can do that. Disney can set and enforce policies. The worst thing that Disney would probably do was just ask you to leave the park. If you refused they could call the police and have you arrested for trespassing, but I doubt it would ever go that far.

Believe it or not, it happens A LOT. Anaheim PD are on site for a variety of reasons, but if Disney requests, they routinely escort people to the Harbor sidewalk and issue a trespass warning. A trespass warning means you may not reenter Disney property (which includes DTD) for a set period of time (I think it is one year, might be 6 mos.) If you turn around and walk back in (which people have been known to do) they will arrest you on the spot for trespassing.

 

[whoever]

I think it's also preying on regular park visitors, who are actually allowed to be there and yet May lose places in line, Fastpasses, and viewing spots to groups who aren't supposed to be there.

Huh? Anybody who has a ticket is "allowed" to be there.

 

[mrqster]

This is the original poster here.

Thanks for all of the advice. Reading this board is very helpful to plan a Disneyland vacation.

I am glad Disney doesn't have a problem with unofficial touring guides like Mouse Expedition, Stone VIPS, or Magical VIP Guides.

I am possibly considering using touringplans or ridemax.

However it would be nice to have a fast pass runner running around the park, while I am enjoying the rides with my kids. I would not want my wife nor I to wait an hour before the show just to get a good spot for my kids to see the shows. I also think it would be nice to for someone on the spot tell me where to go to have a shorter wait on rides. If at the spur of the moment I feel like eating a particular item, he can direct me to the better eateries. I want to give my family the most enjoyable and memorable vacation as possible.

I am considering using the "official" Disney VIP tour, but someone had mentioned that Mouse Expedition was actually better. Unfortunately Mouse Expedition is booked when I will be there.

I was just trying to get some reviews on other "unofficial" tour guides like Stone VIPS, Magical VIP Guides, or any other recommended guides.

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Malcon10t]

I am considering using the "official" Disney VIP tour, but someone had mentioned that Mouse Expedition was actually better. Unfortunately Mouse Expedition is booked when I will be there.

I'm curious how Mouse Expeditions would be better than VIP Tours by a Disney guide? When I've done the VIP tours, we haven't needed a FP to use a FP line. If my nieces wanted to ride Screamin' 3 times in a row, they did, waiting only the time in the FP line. All seats for shows were walk up, VIP seating for Aladdin, Disney Playhouse, Mickey's Magical Map, Fantasmic!, WoC, Fireworks, parades, etc... If I wanted reservations at Cafe Orleans, even though they were booked, I had reservations, etc... True, it costs more, but I honestly cannot see how Mouse Expeditions is better. (Cheaper, yes, better, no.)

In addition to rides with Fastpass the following rides you bypass the standby lines also :
Disneyland attractions:

It’s a Small World
Storybook Land Canal Boats
Dumbo the Flying Elephant
Pirates of the Caribbean
Haunted Mansion
Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage
Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters
Matterhorn Bobsleds
Alice in Wonderland

Disney California Adventure attractions:

Monsters Inc. Mike & Sully to the Rescue
Muppet *Vision 3D
Toy Story Midway Mania!
Aladdin
Disney Playhouse
Jumpin’ Jellyfish
Ariel’s Undersea Adventure
Mater's

 

[mrqster]

I'm curious how Mouse Expeditions would be better than VIP Tours by a Disney guide?

This was only a "subjective" review posted here a year ago. I know it was only one review, but she liked mouse expedition better than the "official" Disney VIP.

It seems like she thought she received a "similar" satisfaction of both tours, but mouse expedition was cheaper.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2973950&highlight=mouse+expedition

I recently booked both and Mouse Expedition gets my vote by a landslide. Brian and his lovely girlfriend from Mouse Expedition have the parks down to a science. They take you on every ride you want to go on and save you fabulous seats for WOC, Fantasmic or Fireworks. I was right in front of the castle! He and Cindy run around gathering all of your fast passes while you are simply enjoying each attraction. I paid $275 an hour to Disney VIP and had him 6 hours the next day when he took us to fast pass lanes without a pass but said we would have to wait in line for Luigis or any other ride without fast pass. The only advantage the Disney guide had was the ability to schedule last minute dining for the day of our tour, but thanks to Disboards, I did all of that myself. This one is a no-brainer and the best way I can thank you experts that helped me so much. Read his reviews on Yelp, find him on Facebook or just go to his website but you will be thrilled if you are lucky enough to book Mouse Expedition for your group. This was the best money we spent. You can truly be VIPs at a ridiculous cheap price.

 

[larina]

.... I just don't believe an unofficial tour guide is taking advantage of their customer....

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think taking your money for unsanctioned business on Disney property is taking advantage.

.... I would not want my wife nor I to wait an hour before the show just to get a good spot for my kids to see the shows....

I am considering using the "official" Disney VIP tour....

But its Disneyland and waiting is a part of the experience. I hope you will go with an official Disney tour and stay on the up and up (I'm almost positive Mouse Expeditions uses an AP, which I'd clearly outside Disney policy).

 

[lilpooh108]

How exactly are they preying on the families who hire them?

Because the family who hired the illegal guide can be kicked out and banned right alongside the guide. If they ban you, they're not refunding you your ticket.

I bet the guides don't mention that.

IMO, Disney should just do this once or twice (ban an entire group, guides & clients). If they do this and draw publicity to it via media outlets, a larger percentage people will still stop hiring these guides if they themselves run the risk of getting kicked out.

I think it's inevitable anyway. At WDW, they are going to soon change GAC rules. They're going do away with regular FPs. At DLR, they're enforcing FP return times. Won't be surprised if they start cracking down on other stuff.

 

[bcla]

Won't be surprised if they start cracking down on other stuff.

Fine with everything you mentioned, but not if they can the unofficial policy on bringing in reasonable quantities of food.

 

[lilpooh108]

Fine with everything you mentioned, but not if they can the unofficial policy on bringing in reasonable quantities of food.

I agree on the food thing, in our case because my toddler has allergies and can't eat the stuff they have for kids. We bring no more than a child size lunch box though of prepackaged snacks.

I did see a family bring in an ENTIRE COOLER (like, tailgate size with rollers) once and set up came at Flo's. That was sort of ridiculous.

 

[Dot2Vegas]

I agree on the food thing, in our case because my toddler has allergies and can't eat the stuff they have for kids. We bring no more than a child size lunch box though of prepackaged snacks.

I did see a family bring in an ENTIRE COOLER (like, tailgate size with rollers) once and set up came at Flo's. That was sort of ridiculous.

How rude!! We sometimes bring in sandwiches and drinks along with snacks, but always in a cooler bag that can fit in our backpack or be carried like a purse. And we would never sit at a restaurant. To me, those seats are there for people who are paying for food! The only exception would be in your case, where someone has an allergy and can't eat the restaurant food like the rest of the party. Some people are so tacky!

 

[whoever]

Because the family who hired the illegal guide can be kicked out and banned right alongside the guide. If they ban you, they're not refunding you your ticket..

No such thing as an illegal guide, and no chance they could ban someone for hiring someone to show them around the park. The guide may be ejected, but the group who hired them would not be.

 

[bcla]

I agree on the food thing, in our case because my toddler has allergies and can't eat the stuff they have for kids. We bring no more than a child size lunch box though of prepackaged snacks.

I did see a family bring in an ENTIRE COOLER (like, tailgate size with rollers) once and set up came at Flo's. That was sort of ridiculous.

They have an official policy that coolers brought into the parks must be no bigger than can accommodate a six pack, and that larger coolers brought inside security should be placed in the lockers. That they specifically allow coolers sort of flies in the face of their official policy that outside food and drink isn't allowed except for special dietary reasons. I literally brought along an older soft cooler with a soft liner that could barely contain a six pack. We had zero issue with it, whether we had soft drinks or bottled water.

Now I do remember going to a county fair the week before going to DL and bringing along an Igloo Island Breeze 9. My wife thought I was nuts, but it was nice when it got really hot and we had cold beverages. However, someone else brought along a 38 quart rolling cooler, which was allowed. I really wish I had something with wheels after carrying that thing around.

I've certainly been to some places where policies can be very restrictive. I've gone an indoor arena (Oracle Arena in Oakland) where the policy is that no outside food or beverage (even bottled water) is allowed and is very much enforced. This is in a complex where the stadium next door allows reasonable-sized soft-sided coolers and beverages in plastic bottles only, as well as pretty much any food. I remember bringing in fast-food chicken to share with my friends. Now the last time I went to Anaheim Stadium (or whatever they're calling it now) they had a policy that one could bring in sealed bottled water in plastic bottles no larger than 1 L. No soft drinks but I managed to bring in sparkling mineral water in plastic bottles.