Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[HopperFan]

Here's another anecdote from the subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalOrlando/comments/152i5ns

In summary - she had a pretty negative experience getting accommodations for her child, though she did eventually have success.

[Edit for a warning: there is some ableism in the comments, though less than I was expecting! Interesting discussion nonetheless.]

Not going to comment on her post itself (she gave plenty to comment on so no surprise there are so many responses).

What I want to take from it - this process IS an extra layer to wean out those who do not have a documented disability, and acceptance from ICBBES only means they acknowledge a documented disability. Then whoever the business is, in this case a theme park - that business decides if they will offer the additional accommodations above what they legally have in place.

We are not assured anything from Universal just because this company approved a generic card. Universal is using them to narrow the applications.

I’m just not sure at this point I’m convinced ICBBES is doing much to screen so think this is a wait and see situation.

 

[Disneychick13]

s

Not going to comment on her post itself (she gave plenty to comment on so no surprise there are so many responses).

What I want to take from it - this process IS an extra layer to wean out those who do not have a documented disability, and acceptance from ICBBES only means they acknowledge a documented disability. Then whoever the business is, in this case a theme park - that business decides if they will offer the additional accommodations above what they legally have in place.

We are not assured anything from Universal just because this company approved a generic card. Universal is using them to narrow the applications.

I’m just not sure at this point I’m convinced ICBBES is doing much to screen so think this is a wait and see situation.

Agreed. It’s really just to weed out people that don‘t have a disability. It won’t weed out many people that have a disability but don’t actually need a disability pass. That would be really hard to do to be honest.

 

[DisneyOma]

s

Not going to comment on her post itself (she gave plenty to comment on so no surprise there are so many responses).

What I want to take from it - this process IS an extra layer to wean out those who do not have a documented disability, and acceptance from ICBBES only means they acknowledge a documented disability. Then whoever the business is, in this case a theme park - that business decides if they will offer the additional accommodations above what they legally have in place.

We are not assured anything from Universal just because this company approved a generic card. Universal is using them to narrow the applications.

I’m just not sure at this point I’m convinced ICBBES is doing much to screen so think this is a wait and see situation.

So how exactly does a "documented disability" look? I've got tons of records about my issues, etc, so would that be considered a documented disability? How about if it only affects my ability to access attractions at WDW (I don't do other types of activities on the WDW level) and nothing else?

 

[lanejudy]

So how exactly does a "documented disability" look? I've got tons of records about my issues, etc, so would that be considered a documented disability? How about if it only affects my ability to access attractions at WDW (I don't do other types of activities on the WDW level) and nothing else?

The IBCCES website indicates the types of documents they accept:

• Contact information and statement from medical provider, government entity, or educational support professional related to accommodations requested

Some people may have such documents but still be denied accommodations by the theme park/business, because their disability is not accommodated by the AAP card (or whatever that theme park/business offers). For example: a child with a learning disability that impacts reading skills has a documented disability with the IEP but does not require any accommodation at Universal Orlando.

If you have a disability that doesn't impact other aspects of your life, you likely will need to request a letter from your healthcare provider. I don't know if just any document (i.e., a visit summary?) from the doctor works or not, you can try. Or you may need to request something more specific. Again, the documentation is only to prove a disability (of some sort) exists; it doesn't not guarantee accommodation by the theme park, which should be determined by a phone call or in-person discussion with the theme park (not with IBCCES).

 

[DLgal]

So how exactly does a "documented disability" look? I've got tons of records about my issues, etc, so would that be considered a documented disability? How about if it only affects my ability to access attractions at WDW (I don't do other types of activities on the WDW level) and nothing else?

Would you get SSDI for it if you applied? Is it a listed blue book disability? That's what ADA uses, as far as I am aware. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

That's pretty much how "disability" is defined in the USA. Since the IBCCES is a worldwide company, they may define disability differently.

A "health issue" MAY qualify as a legitimate disability. As one example, IBS is NOT defined as a disability, but IBD (Chrohns, UC) is. One is a functional disorder with no disease process occurring (IBS) while the other is a pathological Autoimmune Disease (IBD).

 

[lanejudy]

Would you get SSDI for it if you applied? Is it a listed blue book disability? That's what ADA uses, as far as I am aware. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

That is incorrect. The ADA does not have any list of qualifying diagnoses or conditions and does NOT necessarily follow the same guidelines as SSDI.

An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment.

 

[DLgal]

That is incorrect. The ADA does not have any list of qualifying diagnoses or conditions and does NOT necessarily follow the same guidelines as SSDI.

An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[razlime]

Would you get SSDI for it if you applied? Is it a listed blue book disability? That's what ADA uses, as far as I am aware. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).

That's pretty much how "disability" is defined in the USA. Since the IBCCES is a worldwide company, they may define disability differently.

A "health issue" MAY qualify as a legitimate disability. As one example, IBS is NOT defined as a disability, but IBD (Chrohns, UC) is. One is a functional disorder with no disease process occurring (IBS) while the other is a pathological Autoimmune Disease (IBD).

Just echoing that this is absolutely untrue. SSDI and Blue Book disabilities have a narrow definition of disabilities that prevent a person from working. There are millions of disabled people in the US able to work who need accommodations. The US does not in any way "define disabilities" like this. I suppose your strict (incorrect) definition explains your earlier responses people took issue with about documentation, though. I do wish the US was like most countries who do have government certifications for disability beyond SSDI.

In fact, most job applications now have a question about disability for EEO tracking. This question includes many disabilities not covered by SSDI, like diabetes. A diabetic person has a disability (and may consider themselves disabled), requires accommodations at work, and may need accommodations in theme parks. The US government (via the EEOC) and the ADA guidelines consider diabetes a disability.

For further clarification, IBS is a disability.

 

[bambialways4ever]

Just echoing that this is absolutely untrue. SSDI and Blue Book disabilities have a narrow definition of disabilities that prevent a person from working. There are millions of disabled people in the US able to work who need accommodations. The US does not in any way "define disabilities" like this. I suppose your strict (incorrect) definition explains your earlier responses people took issue with about documentation, though. I do wish the US was like most countries who do have government certifications for disability beyond SSDI.

In fact, most job applications now have a question about disability for EEO tracking. This question includes many disabilities not covered by SSDI, like diabetes. A diabetic person has a disability (and may consider themselves disabled), requires accommodations at work, and may need accommodations in theme parks. The US government (via the EEOC) and the ADA guidelines consider diabetes a disability.

For further clarification, IBS is a disability.

And this also brings up the point that many people don't disclose that they have a disability in the workplace because of the discrimination they face here in the US. And yes, discrimination is illegal. But acting like just because it's illegal it doesn't happen is burying our heads in the sand.

And because people don't disclose, they often don't receive workplace accommodations they probably are entitled to and should receive, and that makes them less likely to have documentation for their disability that they could use for something like this program.


And before anyone comes for me of "if you don't need accommodations at work why would you need them at Disney"... sitting at my air conditioned desk for 8 hours a day looking at basic documents on a computer 50 steps from a toilet is a lot different than walking 20+ miles in direct sun in high heat with massive overstimulation around every bend and being trapped in confined areas with no easy restroom or food access.

 

[notatallmagic]

What really pi#$#$ me off about this is that we came to Universal as Annual Passholders to avoid this kind of crap (we had a negative experience with the Disney version); so now we have $$ invested in Annual Passes that we might not be able to use (as well as airfare and hotels booked). Universal's process to date had worked very well for us with great service each time we called to renew the pass. Now this. Ugh.

So, does it make a difference if our situation DOES have (in my kiddo's case) a documented 504 with accomodations? Or is the doctor's letter enough? The idea of putting a kid having a seizure in a wheelchair (like that's some sort of solution) makes my blood boil. My complaint with Disney was the untrained and ignorant Cast Members made for a VERY random experience; it seems like Universal will now be doing the same thing. So we have a letter from a MEDICAL DOCTOR saying the person requires an accommodation, and some untrained, clueless person is then the decision maker? What a joke.

 

[notatallmagic]

I was just denied the Disability Pass.

I have held passes before at both Disney and Universal.

I received a call today on my cell phone from Universal. The call went straight to my voice mail and never showed up on my recent calls or missed calls. They said in the voice mail that they would email me with some information. I read the email which included a phone number to call them back with my case number. I called them back and they asked about my needs and how many in my traveling party (Husband & son with me). My needs are frequent need for a restroom as quite a few others on here have posted needing also. The Team Member on the phone went on to explain that in these situations they recommend that you leave the line while the rest of your party waits. I explained that I have tried this before and have had other guest get confrontational with me trying to re-enter the line and passing by them. This is why I have been granted this pass previously. They went on to explain they are working with their Team Members at the attractions about this and I do not qualify for the pass. Please let me know if anyone else has been able to get there pass for their restrooms needs.

I do have an Autistic son which I haven’t bother ever getting him a pass of his own cause he has always gone off mine. So now I will have to go and get him his own pass so I can be able to use it with him for my needs. I will be stopping at Guest Services at the park during our August trip coming up to see what they say there.

This suggestion - and I've seen it other places - is not a solution for most of us; and is SO ridiculous and cruel.

So, as a single parent with a child experiencing a medical crisis, that child should 1) leave the line ALONE to treat the situation, and perhaps lose consciousness/sieze/or worse; or 2) have me leave the line with her, in which case I'm leaving my other child alone in the line. In the event the DAS holder's situation goes south, we are now separated, so I'd get to ignore the medical crisis and try to find a way to contact/track down/meet up with my other child? OMG.

It is SO CLEAR that these people have no experience with our/my reality. For those parties with multiple adults, maybe? But #2 would still apply, and that's just a crazy suggestion.

Who ARE these people?

 

[Disneydawg74]

Very concerned that an IEP is a valid form of identifying a disability - IEPS are developed for educational situations. How they apply to a vacation at a theme park is a stretch to me. How this isn't against ADA is beyond me as well - sounds like you have to give them a lot of personal, documented medical information. Since they are requiring medical info, do they now get covered under HIPAA regulations?

The ADA doesn’t prohibit this, at least in so far as requests for “reasonable accommodation” go. At work, we used to get doctor’s notes all the time for reasonable accommodation requests. The main HIPAA problem is with physicians not wanting to provide them.

 

[lanejudy]

So, does it make a difference if our situation DOES have (in my kiddo's case) a documented 504 with accomodations?

IBCCES may accept the 504 as proof a disability exists. That is the first step.

Universal then makes determination of specific accommodations, and based on other posts it sounds like the Universal employee will not have access to whatever documentation you provide. You/she will still have to discuss her needs (not diagnosis) with a Universal employee, presumably much as you have been doing for prior visits. I'd like to think that if she received accommodation in the past it would continue to be granted, however if her need is related to bathroom issues it seems UO is tightening up and denying those requests.

 

[bambialways4ever]

What really pi#$#$ me off about this is that we came to Universal as Annual Passholders to avoid this kind of crap (we had a negative experience with the Disney version); so now we have $$ invested in Annual Passes that we might not be able to use (as well as airfare and hotels booked). Universal's process to date had worked very well for us with great service each time we called to renew the pass. Now this. Ugh.

So, does it make a difference if our situation DOES have (in my kiddo's case) a documented 504 with accomodations? Or is the doctor's letter enough? The idea of putting a kid having a seizure in a wheelchair (like that's some sort of solution) makes my blood boil. My complaint with Disney was the untrained and ignorant Cast Members made for a VERY random experience; it seems like Universal will now be doing the same thing. So we have a letter from a MEDICAL DOCTOR saying the person requires an accommodation, and some untrained, clueless person is then the decision maker? What a joke.

As a former epileptic, I would have loved to see someone put my unconscious body having a grand mal seizure into a wheelchair. Best of luck. Not sure how you will make my rigid and unconscious body sit and not fall onto the floor and cause brain damage.

 

[notatallmagic]

IBCCES may accept the 504 as proof a disability exists. That is the first step.

Universal then makes determination of specific accommodations, and based on other posts it sounds like the Universal employee will not have access to whatever documentation you provide. You/she will still have to discuss her needs (not diagnosis) with a Universal employee, presumably much as you have been doing for prior visits. I'd like to think that if she received accommodation in the past it would continue to be granted, however if her need is related to bathroom issues it seems UO is tightening up and denying those requests.

So if the Uni employee doesn't even see the documentation, what is the point? My frustration is that we're jumping through all these hoops, contacting a doctor, getting a letter, submitting data, and an untrained person with no access to information is making a decision. Awesome.

I did just talk to a Uni cast member; no way I'm making plane and resort reservations until we get this figured out. Regretting my AP purchases too. CM was very professional, but she did admit they are "very backed up" and that the CM's making the decision cannot see any of the information we submitted.

IBCCES may accept the 504 as proof a disability exists. That is the first step.

Universal then makes determination of specific accommodations, and based on other posts it sounds like the Universal employee will not have access to whatever documentation you provide. You/she will still have to discuss her needs (not diagnosis) with a Universal employee, presumably much as you have been doing for prior visits. I'd like to think that if she received accommodation in the past it would continue to be granted, however if her need is related to bathroom issues it seems UO is tightening up and denying those requests.

 

[notatallmagic]

As a former epileptic, I would have loved to see someone put my unconscious body having a grand mal seizure into a wheelchair. Best of luck. Not sure how you will make my rigid and unconscious body sit and not fall onto the floor and cause brain damage.

Right. O.M.G.

The lack of training and/or ignorance is astounding. So they have a DOCTOR'S letter that they can't see, and then they are making the decision. Shakes head.

 

[notatallmagic]

Just echoing that this is absolutely untrue. SSDI and Blue Book disabilities have a narrow definition of disabilities that prevent a person from working. There are millions of disabled people in the US able to work who need accommodations. The US does not in any way "define disabilities" like this. I suppose your strict (incorrect) definition explains your earlier responses people took issue with about documentation, though. I do wish the US was like most countries who do have government certifications for disability beyond SSDI.

In fact, most job applications now have a question about disability for EEO tracking. This question includes many disabilities not covered by SSDI, like diabetes. A diabetic person has a disability (and may consider themselves disabled), requires accommodations at work, and may need accommodations in theme parks. The US government (via the EEOC) and the ADA guidelines consider diabetes a disability.

For further clarification, IBS is a disability.

Sigh. The other issue we run into often is that every person with the same disability may experience it differently. Right after diagnosis, we had some very hurtful comments from other folks with the same diagnosis. My kid was headed to a military academy as an athlete. The diagnosis shattered all of that; so when well meaning folks told her "it's ok, you can still eat pizza!"...Sigh.

Like I've mentioned before, every individual has a different situation and proper training is key. Theme parks IMO have created these issues (Disney especially) in many cases; and now we are dealing with the fallout. I was asked "you do know Express Pass is available" - yes, we do, but that doesn't allow access to the medical lockers...so it's not that easy. So. frustrating.

 

[OurBigTrip]

This suggestion - and I've seen it other places - is not a solution for most of us; and is SO ridiculous and cruel.

So, as a single parent with a child experiencing a medical crisis, that child should 1) leave the line ALONE to treat the situation, and perhaps lose consciousness/sieze/or worse; or 2) have me leave the line with her, in which case I'm leaving my other child alone in the line. In the event the DAS holder's situation goes south, we are now separated, so I'd get to ignore the medical crisis and try to find a way to contact/track down/meet up with my other child? OMG.

It is SO CLEAR that these people have no experience with our/my reality. For those parties with multiple adults, maybe? But #2 would still apply, and that's just a crazy suggestion.

Who ARE these people?

You do realize the post you're responding to was related to bathroom issues, correct? While without question these may require accommodations, I haven't seen anyone denied and told to leave the line and come back later when they're talking about an emergency medical situation.

 

[DisneyOma]

The IBCCES website indicates the types of documents they accept:

• Contact information and statement from medical provider, government entity, or educational support professional related to accommodations requested

Some people may have such documents but still be denied accommodations by the theme park/business, because their disability is not accommodated by the AAP card (or whatever that theme park/business offers). For example: a child with a learning disability that impacts reading skills has a documented disability with the IEP but does not require any accommodation at Universal Orlando.

If you have a disability that doesn't impact other aspects of your life, you likely will need to request a letter from your healthcare provider. I don't know if just any document (i.e., a visit summary?) from the doctor works or not, you can try. Or you may need to request something more specific. Again, the documentation is only to prove a disability (of some sort) exists; it doesn't not guarantee accommodation by the theme park, which should be determined by a phone call or in-person discussion with the theme park (not with IBCCES).

This just doesn't make sense to me why it is allowed, and what a farce it is as well. Some company decides to make money handing out "cards" and businesses jump on it because it takes the proof out of their hands, but we have to show medical info, get a doctor to prove we are "disabled enough" - that statement from a medical provider - to a third party to then get someone else to say yes or no.

I work at a school - what if I get one of the other educational support professionals to write me a note? Could I write my own note? (J/K)

 

[notatallmagic]

You do realize the post you're responding to was related to bathroom issues, correct? While without question these may require accommodations, I haven't seen anyone denied and told to leave the line and come back later when they're talking about an emergency medical situation.

To a degree? But access to bathrooms is also one of the items that we have said/doctor has stated as one of the reasons the pass is needed. Either way, I still believe it to be a somewhat tone-deaf "recommendation". Not everyone can split up their party.