United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[kdonnel]

This happened not too long ago. Different circumstances, and maybe she "deserved it," but it has happened before on other airlines.

A woman who was dragged off a Delta Air Lines flight by Detroit Metro Airport police on Monday had ignored boarding procedures and may face criminal charges, according to airport authorities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/woman-dragged-off-delta-flight_us_585193fde4b0e411bfd4f928

She boarded without presenting her ticket to the gate agent.

I'm surprised she didn't get shot as a terrorist.

 

[bcla]

I see it happening Over and over. And the fact that united lost close to a billion dollars says something. something has to change. They can't take your money and then say "oh hey we're full. Take this voucher for free pretzels and get on then next flight 7 days from now"

The vast majority of involuntary bumping occurs before boarding the plane. In that case there's no need for the passenger to be removed from the plane. The compensation for involuntary bumping is fixed by law, so there's no negotiation. I could see some sort of protest though, although rushing or blocking the gate would be clear grounds for removal in the terminal. The thing about any passenger that gets bumped is that they typically get to the front of the line for the next flight.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

https://qz.com/956005/united-ual-pa...ore-often-than-at-any-other-major-us-airline/

Clearly all the airlines practice this, but I mean the difference in customer service between Southwest and United.... it's no contest

I have had a horrible experience with SWA. United on the other hand (for me) has outstanding customer service. They have been absolutely wonderful to me the last few months with issues that I have had using Viking Air for our Viking cruise. They have solved everything that came across. I've used United since Frontier went down the tubes so that's been a few years and am pleased to date.

 

[Aladora]

Those that do not have boarding passes if they are involuntarily denied boarding but can get on another flight within two hours, they automatically get double the cost of their one way flight as either a voucher or a check at the choice of the customer. If one cannot get on another flight within two hours, they automatically get four times the cost of their flight as either a voucher or a check, customer's choice. The time that counts for these figures is the arrival time. Their over booking policy and compensation is hands down better than United's and it isn't even close.

The bold is not just Southwest's compensation policy, it is the rule for all airlines regarding involuntary denied boarding.

§ 250.5 Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily.
(a) Subject to the exceptions provided in § 250.6, a carrier to whom this part applies as described in § 250.2 shall pay compensation in interstate air transportation to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight as follows:

(1) No compensation is required if the carrier offers alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination not later than one hour after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight;

(2) Compensation shall be 200% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $675, if the carrier offers alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; and

(3) Compensation shall be 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $1,350, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's first stopover, or if none, the airport of the passenger's final destination less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight.

From the Code of Federal Regulations, section 14

 

[Babs Johnson]

The vast majority of involuntary bumping occurs before boarding the plane. In that case there's no need for the passenger to be removed from the plane. The compensation for involuntary bumping is fixed by law, so there's no negotiation. I could see some sort of protest though, although rushing or blocking the gate would be clear grounds for removal in the terminal. The thing about any passenger that gets bumped is that they typically get to the front of the line for the next flight.

Perhaps so. In this case, however, United wanted to bump them to a flight the next afternoon. There was an additional United flight to Louisville later that evening, and two more earlier the next day. Plus American Airlines had a flight or two in the interim. United wanted the cheapest, easiest way out to accommodate their employees (OK, technically Republic Airlines employees) rather than the convenience of paying customers.

 

[twinklebug]

I have a great pair of knit "dress" pants from the gap that are made out of yoga pant material but look like dress pants (and have a button and fly). I often wear them to work. I love them and have them in multiple colors.

Be very careful when wearing any type of knit/elastic waistband pants or shorts. You want to be prepared so that when your day comes to be dragged from the plane they stay put and aren't left behind in the isle with someone recording the incident for all to see.

 

[bcla]

Perhaps so. In this case, however, United wanted to bump them to a flight the next afternoon. There was an additional United flight to Louisville later that evening, and two more earlier the next day. Plus American Airlines had a flight or two in the interim. United wanted the cheapest, easiest way out to accommodate their employees (OK, technically Republic Airlines employees) rather than the convenience of paying customers.

Well - I thought that typically the passenger becomes first in line for standby.

There was no word on whether the employees were with their contractor or direct United employees. I would think that with partner airlines they basically help each other out.

 

[jiminyC_fan]

I absolutely love this woman's article. Something good to think about.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I absolutely love this woman's article. Something good to think about.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

I get much of what she's saying, and agree with SOME of it. But I really think these policies need to be revisited. Not the least of which is United not empowering their front line employees and giving them latitude to deal with the real world in a common sense way -- e.g. up the $$ until then get volunteers -- not have an arbitrary amount that they're not empowered to exceed.

If their policies made sense, none of his would have happened.

Sounds like they are finally revisiting these.

 

[jdb in AZ]

New United Airlines mottos
1. We put the hospital in hospitality
2. Tell us your safe word at check in
3. We have First Class, Business Class, and No Class
4. ...Board as a doctor, Leave as a patient.
5. If we overbook, you'll catch a right hook
6. Now serving punch
7. We have an offer you can't refuse. No really.
8. We have Red Eye and Black Eye flights available!
9. You are now free to be thrown around the cabin
10. though our prices are unbeatable, we can't say the same for our passengers

 

[MaryKatesMom]

JiminyC fan - thanks! You are right that was good!

There are things that can be done to ease things like this. They ask for volunteers using vouchers that are hard to use. Since deregulation, the reciprocal rule has been removed, I believe that would have helped in this case and many others.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I absolutely love this woman's article. Something good to think about.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

It's AWESOME. She did a really good job of laying out what why it happened and what federal regulations were involved. Also, the safety thing is key.

As much as I dislike the hassles of airport security, I feel a lot safer because of it. When people here complain about bag searches and metal detectors at WDW, it's really frustrating. It only takes one incident of a gun or knife or explosive to get in for something really bad to happen. Why would you not be okay with WDW or the DOT doing everything in their power to prevent that from happening?

 

[bcla]

It's AWESOME. She did a really good job of laying out what why it happened and what federal regulations were involved. Also, the safety thing is key.

She gets a few details wrong. She called the security federal law enforcement. They were unarmed police from a city agency, which is kind of a unique setup, but I suppose other airports would utilize local armed LE. Also - he got bloodied on his initial removal and not when he ran back on. However, those are tangential to her argument, which was reasonably laid out.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

If the legacy carriers like United didn't have such high change fees people wouldn't be so mad. I've eaten more that one flight when it was cheaper to buy a whole new ticket then pay the change fees. It is why I only fly SW now.

It is ironic that when we voluntarily want to change our flights the costs are high but the compensation for having our flights involuntarily changed is so low.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I absolutely love this woman's article. Something good to think about.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

I couldn't even read the whole thing because it was annoying. The guy just been assaulted and bashed in the head. He was bleeding. It's highly likely that he was scared, confuse and disoriented when he came back on the plane. The v way she describes it is inflammatory and really unfair when you actually consider the circumstances. What really made me stop reading it and get annoyed was that she brought up 9/11. That is just so distasteful.. She's defending an airline physically removing a seated paying customer because of the airline's mistake and using 9/11 to somehow justify it? Yeah, no. That's abhorrent.

 

[kidshop]

New United Airlines mottos
1. We put the hospital in hospitality
2. Tell us your safe word at check in
3. We have First Class, Business Class, and No Class
4. ...Board as a doctor, Leave as a patient.
5. If we overbook, you'll catch a right hook
6. Now serving punch
7. We have an offer you can't refuse. No really.
8. We have Red Eye and Black Eye flights available!
9. You are now free to be thrown around the cabin
10. though our prices are unbeatable, we can't say the same for our passengers

and my 2 favorites: United, now with one free carry off!

United: We treat you like a king. Rodney King.

 

[Babs Johnson]

For what it's worth, the American flight from Chicago to Louisville on Sunday, scheduled to leave an hour after the United flight, departed with several empty seats.

 

[bcla]

I couldn't even read the whole thing because it was annoying. The guy just been assaulted and bashed in the head. He was bleeding. It's highly likely that he was scared, confuse and disoriented when he came back on the plane. The v way she describes it is inflammatory and really unfair when you actually consider the circumstances. What really made me stop reading it and get annoyed was that she brought up 9/11. That is just so distasteful.. She's defending an airline physically removing a seated paying customer because of the airline's mistake and using 9/11 to somehow justify it? Yeah, no. That's abhorrent.

Part of the blog post was premised on the mistaken understanding that he was bloodied after he ran back onto the plane. That happened beforehand. So at that point she was saying anyone running onto a plane is a serious threat. However, there wasn't as serious a response when he ran back onto the plane.

From what I see from the video, Dr. Dao was knocked cold. He wasn't making any noise or movement, and it looks like the officer was dragging an unconscious man. His head was slumped over and it looked like his eyes were closed. But his phone stayed in his hand.

 

[Westcoastwild]

If the legacy carriers like United didn't have such high change fees people wouldn't be so mad. I've eaten more that one flight when it was cheaper to buy a whole new ticket then pay the change fees. It is why I only fly SW now.

It is ironic that when we voluntarily want to change our flights the costs are high but the compensation for having our flights involuntarily changed is so low.

That I definitely agree with. It's absurdly expensive. I don't agree that compensation is low- a check or voucher for 4x the original price is pretty generous in my book. As long as they cover the hotel, I'm good. How much compensation would make it ok with you? I suspect that any amount of compensation would still leave some folks fuming.

But all forms of transit have nonrefundable and refundable tickets. You can always buy refundable tickets on Amtrak, for instance. But most people buy the savers for a low price and you can't change those.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

For what it's worth, the American flight from Chicago to Louisville on Sunday, scheduled to leave an hour after the United flight, departed with several empty seats.

If the reciprocal rule was still in force, those shoved off the United Flight would have been on that plane.

If anyone wants to sign a few petitions for more consumer protections of airline passengers www.flyersrights.org I started paying attention after people were trapped on the runway for hours without food or water.