United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[bcla]

But all forms of transit have nonrefundable and refundable tickets. You can always buy refundable tickets on Amtrak, for instance. But most people buy the savers for a low price and you can't change those.

There was a time (until maybe three years ago) when one could basically no-show and still get full credit on Amtrak regardless of the type of fare. Now if there's a no-show that completely cancels the itinerary if it's a "reserved" train. I think that's still the case with most airlines unless arrangements are made to change the flight.

 

[mummabear]

I think this is bull, and a big part of what is currently wrong with this country -- that SO MANY people jump to a racial argument about almost anything.

I wasn't saying it was racist he was chosen, I asked if he had been another race, had the outcome, either not being assaulted or the public reaction to it be any different.
Another poster mentioned age, I wonder the same thing if he was 25 rather than 69? Would we still be sympathetic?

Race had nothing to do with this situation. On the flip side, maybe it was size discrimination. I don't think a body builder or anyone that displays considerate amount of muscles would have been treated this way.

See above comment

I...think you're just sending this thread down an even uglier rabbit hole.

You are right, sorry.
I just read the article trying to understand why China is now involved and in what way and read this question.
I thought it was an interesting point, but I forgot in the DIS how quickly things can devolve rather than being discussed rationally(just to clarify I'm not saying you did or do that just a general observation)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That I definitely agree with. It's absurdly expensive. I don't agree that compensation is low- a check or voucher for 4x the original price is pretty generous in my book. As long as they cover the hotel, I'm good. How much compensation would make it ok with you? I suspect that any amount of compensation would still leave some folks fuming.

The comp is only "enough" if they get the number of volunteers they need. It's precisely because this is so subjective that i think they should use a market price.

 

[bcla]

You are right, sorry.
I just read the article trying to understand why China is now involved and in what way and read this question.
I thought it was an interesting point, but I forgot in the DIS how quickly things can devolve rather than being discussed rationally(just to clarify I'm not saying you did or do that just a general observation)

He's probably ethnic Chinese (Dao sounds Chinese), even though his given names are Vietnamese. David is obviously an adopted name. A former coworker of mine was born in Vietnam to Chinese parents and he had a Vietnamese given name and Chinese family name. There's a huge Chinese diaspora in other countries in Asia. Chinese internet users are having a field day with this, and they might even have done so simply on the basis of being of any Asian ethnic origin.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

That I definitely agree with. It's absurdly expensive. I don't agree that compensation is low- a check or voucher for 4x the original price is pretty generous in my book. As long as they cover the hotel, I'm good. How much compensation would make it ok with you? I suspect that any amount of compensation would still leave some folks fuming.

But all forms of transit have nonrefundable and refundable tickets. You can always buy refundable tickets on Amtrak, for instance. But most people buy the savers for a low price and you can't change those.

Refundable tickets are prohibitively expensive and are aimed at business travelers not personal leisure travelers.

I normally travel PHL to MCO onSW with a one way ticket of around $120 so no I don't think it is enough. $800 was not enough to entice volunteers. One of the criteria for selection of IDB is fare so it is the cheap way out. Because they could have offered more my guess is those passengers removed were compensated at $800 or less. They took the cheap way out not necessarily the most customer friendly way out.

 

[mummabear]

Perhaps so. In this case, however, United wanted to bump them to a flight the next afternoon. There was an additional United flight to Louisville later that evening, and two more earlier the next day. Plus American Airlines had a flight or two in the interim. United wanted the cheapest, easiest way out to accommodate their employees (OK, technically Republic Airlines employees) rather than the convenience of paying customers.

I had assumed United was putting them on their next flight, this is absurd!

If the reciprocal rule was still in force, those shoved off the United Flight would have been on that plane.

If anyone wants to sign a few petitions for more consumer protections of airline passengers www.flyersrights.org I started paying attention after people were trapped on the runway for hours without food or water.

Why do you think United didn't just pay for their staff to fly on the other airline?

 

[bcla]

Non refundable tickets are prohibitively expensive and are aimed at business travelers not personal leisure travelers.

I normally travel PHL to MCO onSW with a one way ticket of around $120 so no I don't think it is enough. $800 was not enough to entice volunteers. One of the criteria for selection of IDB is fare so it is the cheap way out. Because they could have offered more my guess is those passengers removed were compensated at $800 or less. They took the cheap way out not necessarily the most customer friendly way out.

Do you mean refundable?

It really depends on the airline. The legacy airlines have very high refundable fares, but many of the regional and other airlines have more reasonable refundable fares. Alaska and Southwest typically have refundable fares that are more affordable.

 

[twinklebug]

For what it's worth, the American flight from Chicago to Louisville on Sunday, scheduled to leave an hour after the United flight, departed with several empty seats.

To me, this is important to note.
These airlines need to have an agreement with each other to assist in moving flight crews and mechanics about when needed and if the space is available.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

That I definitely agree with. It's absurdly expensive. I don't agree that compensation is low- a check or voucher for 4x the original price is pretty generous in my book. As long as they cover the hotel, I'm good. How much compensation would make it ok with you? I suspect that any amount of compensation would still leave some folks fuming.

But all forms of transit have nonrefundable and refundable tickets. You can always buy refundable tickets on Amtrak, for instance. But most people buy the savers for a low price and you can't change those.

Those vouchers expire in exactly a year. I don't travel that much so it wouldn't make much sense for me. Offer cash and I would do it for $800-1K cash. I would have volunteered my family of four.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I had assumed United was putting them on their next flight, this is absurd!



Why do you think United didn't just pay for their staff to fly on the other airline?

I'm guessing those flights were full and it would have caused a domino effect of people getting bumped. The later one probably had empty seats.

it was cheaper and easier to remove their passengers. Without the reciprocal rule there probably isn't a mechanism to do that anymore. I can't see the GA running over to the AA desk paying for 4 flights with a United CC.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Those vouchers expire in exactly a year. I don't travel that much so it wouldn't make much sense for me. Offer cash and I would do it for $800-1K cash. I would have volunteered my family of four.

Exactly. I used to fly all of the time. Now, I avoid it as much as possible. I mean really avoid it. Like 4 times in 14 years.

If they had bumped me and offered me a ticket somewhere else, I would have laughed in their face. Money talks. Tickets on an airline that doesn't hesitate to bump you for nonpaying passengers? No way.

 

[Babs Johnson]

I had assumed United was putting them on their next flight, this is absurd!



Why do you think United didn't just pay for their staff to fly on the other airline?

The flight 21 hours later was likely the first that had at least 4 open seats. So United chose the easiest way out. Putting the 4 on the next United flight would have meant bumping 4 others from THAT flight.

It would have been a hassle and expensive to seat the either the 4 passengers or the deadheading crew on the American flight. If United REALLY wanted to do it, however, they could have found a way.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I wasn't saying it was racist he was chosen, I asked if he had been another race, had the outcome, either not being assaulted or the public reaction to it be any different.
Another poster mentioned age, I wonder the same thing if he was 25 rather than 69? Would we still be sympathetic?)

I can say that on another travel forum I follow, age would have made ALL the difference. Most folks on there are 40 and above and many of them are not budget travelers. They can be really condescending if a new poster reveals that they're under thirty. There have been enough people on this thread that emphasize the guy's age to make think that yes, the whole discussion would be very different if the incident involved the word "millennial". I also think it would be a very different discussion if he was a college student instead of doctor. The US gets really hung up on age, gender and profession even when those things have nothing to do with the issue. Look how that works against the guy too- I don't see how his medical license or sexual history impact what happened at all; yet some folks are arguing that his character explains his actions.

No. The only things that matter here are 1) federal regulations, 2) the guy's refusal to comply, 3)United's mishandling of the situation, and 4) the security officers' choices. Federal regulations are the reason that flight crew was even put on. Security and United definitely mishandled things. But we never would have heard about this if the guy had cooperated like the other people who were bumped, and even though I really dislike United, I still think the guy caused his own problems here. Security tells you to do anything at an airport (provided that it won't endanger someone) you should do it.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Those vouchers expire in exactly a year. I don't travel that much so it wouldn't make much sense for me. Offer cash and I would do it for $800-1K cash. I would have volunteered my family of four.

I respect your choice, but I would have just found a way to use the vouchers. There's really nowhere you want to go? 800 will take you almost anywhere in the world.

 

[pryncess527]

I can't see the GA running over to the AA desk paying for 4 flights with a United CC.

I've seen a Delta gate agent do that before . . . I'm not sure how she paid for it, I don't recall seeing a CC whipped out -- but it was recently.

 

[pryncess527]

I respect your choice, but I would have just found a way to use the vouchers. There's really nowhere you want to go? 800 will take you almost anywhere in the world.

Sure, for people who can afford the time off work and hotel.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I respect your choice, but I would have just found a way to use the vouchers. There's really nowhere you want to go? 800 will take you almost anywhere in the world.

Flights aren't the only cost when traveling. Hotels, food, entertainment. Right now in my life we have a trip to DR planned in August. It's not in my budget to take another trip by April. I have a son graduating high school next year and other commitments in my life.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I received vouchers for a SW flight that had to be bumped due to mechanical failure. I was told by the FA that the vouchers were good for ANYONE. I read between the lines and sold them ($1200 in vouchers for our family of 4) to a friend that was going to WDW. I had no other choice but to take the vouchers since it was mechanical failure. If I'm voluntarily bumping they are going to have to offer me cold hard cash.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Sure, for people who can afford the time off work and hotel.

Flights aren't the only cost when traveling. Hotels, food, entertainment. Right now in my life we have a trip to DR planned in August. It's not in my budget to take another trip by April. I have a son graduating high school next year and other commitments in my life.

Exactly. And it only works if you WANT to go somewhere and you WANT to fly there.

What if you are like me and only fly when you absolutely have to? I really hate to fly. I hate being felt up by the TSA. I hate being packed in like sardines. I hate that you are at the mercy of your airline, and that they can basically do whatever they want to do to you. I hate to fly.

Giving me a ticket is absolutely worthless.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

A PP also mentioned that vouchers are useless to million mile flyers or something like that. I took that to mean they accumulate so many points that they fly for free anyway or fly through their business so it's free for them.

Cash works best.