United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[Westcoastwild]

It's not a free trip, out still have taxes, hotels and other costs of going on holiday, if I can't afford those things it doesn't really matter if the voucher is for $100,000



Nope, theynoffer them because they think many people win't use them so it costs them nothing.

I think if you voluntarily bump for a voucher, you're most likely going to use that voucher. I doubt that the majority of the vouchers are left unused.

I don't just fly for holidays- I also fly for things like visiting family and friends. Maybe that's why I've trouble understanding your argument.

 

[muffyn]

Yuck. Just yuck. I still completely stand by my opinion that you can't use force to remove a paying customer in such a manner who refuses to accommodate a "Request" but he certainly appears to be a scumbag.

more than a request. He was told to adhere to the terms of service of the contract he accepted when purchasing a ticket. leave the airplane.
he refused.

for everyone who thinks the treatment was so repulsive
now just how long was this supposed to go on?
you cant just let him in his seat, everyone would just say no .
they said leave. he said no. he would not go willingly ( again against TOS)

an eyewitness report said it started at very calmly (dont have that on video do we?) then over time, trying to resolve it, it escalates.
I doubt any of the players expected it to go BOOM , but once it starts you can't exactly stop in the middle. I haven't seen anything that said they marched on the plane & just started dragging this guy off.

if someone does not go willingly, someone is going to get hurt.
it couldnt possibly end any other way. I feel he ended looking like an idiot.
you didn't leave quietly with your wife.
now, look what the press dug up abut your life..............

where are all the comments that this ADULT should have acted like one.... & just grumbled, instead of acting like an obnoxious child !

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

for everyone who thinks the treatment was so repulsive
now just how long was this supposed to go on?

OFFER MORE MONEY TO ANYONE ON THE PLANE WILLING TO TAKE IT. Done in 5min.

The lack of flexibility for United staff to do this before it got to this point is the problem.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Ok. I guess I really don't understand what you are talking about.
There's lots of reasons people wouldn't want vouchers.

I'm talking about the people who think United should offer cash instead of vouchers for voluntary bumping. There's a lot of reasons people WOULD want vouchers too. I'm surprised it got up to 800, anyway. People do snap up vouchers. It usually works.

 

[okeydokey]

more than a request. He was told to adhere to the terms of service of the contract he accepted when purchasing a ticket. leave the airplane.
he refused. got off plane, ran back on. refused to leave seat again.

for everyone who thinks the treatment was so repulsive
now just how long was this supposed to go on?
you cant just let him in his seat, everyone would just say no .
they said leave. he said no. he would not go willingly ( again against TOS)

an eyewitness report said it started at very calmly (dont have that on video do we?) then over time, trying to resolve it, it escalates.
I doubt any of the players expected it to go BOOM , but once it starts you can't exactly stop in the middle. I haven't seen anything that said they marched on the plane & just started dragging this guy off.

if someone does not go willingly, someone is going to get hurt.
it couldnt possibly end any other way. I feel he ended looking like an idiot.
you didn't leave quietly with your wife.
now, look what the press dug up abut your life..............

where are all the comments that this ADULT should have acted like one.... & just grumbled, instead of acting like an obnoxious child !

It wasn't the adults job to fix the problem that United created. It was United job to fix the problem by upping the offer until they got the volunteers they needed,. It's that simple.

 

[okeydokey]

I think if you voluntarily bump for a voucher, you're most likely going to use that voucher. I doubt that the majority of the vouchers are left unused.

I don't just fly for holidays- I also fly for things like visiting family and friends. Maybe that's why I've trouble understanding your argument.

Yeah, not everybody sees things,like you do, or travels like you do. It's weird you can't understand that. An 800 voucher to travel late the next afternoon is an offer I would not take. A check for 1600, yeah I would maybe have made that work.

I guess the positive thing for the rest of us is that now we know that we are entitled to four times the cost of the one way ticket in cash if we are ever involuntarily bumped. I did not know that. I have a feeling the airlines were not forthcoming about the cash part in the past hoping people would take a voucher instead. Once you have accepted the voucher it's too late to change it I read.

 

[bcla]

Also with vouchers you still have to
Pay taxes and government fees. It's not entirely a free flight.

Depends on the airline I suppose. Some only require a cash payment for the $2.50 security fee. Travel credit after a cancellation covers all taxes and fees if there's enough.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm talking about the people who think United should offer cash instead of vouchers for voluntary bumping. There's a lot of reasons people WOULD want vouchers too. I'm surprised it got up to 800, anyway. People do snap up vouchers. It usually works.

I know I've said this before, but it would be worth way more than $800 to me. Years ago, I might have taken it, and I can certainly see that it might appeal to many. Not me. And apparently NO ONE on that flight. So the amount wasn't high enough.

I wouldn't have taken $800 cash either, BUT I'd bet more would have taken that than the vouchers for all of the reasons others have mentioned.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I see what you're saying. And I can see that this could impact some people's level of sympathy for the passenger. To me personally, all of these things are irrelevant. I just don't think this policy is fair to any paying customer. Whether the issue is age or whether he does or doesn't have a checkered past (!!) -- none of that is why he was removed. That was due to United mismanagement.

Upon reflection I agree, would it have sparked the same level of outrage if this gentleman was a college student retuning home to binge watch Netflix in his parents basement?

Remember, he probably had the one cheapest fares and could have been the last to check in and if the crew did not get there many more people than 4 would have missed their flights. So yea, maybe if he was a millennial the word " entitled " would have cropped up. I am not implying that was the case here, just that a small, elderly physician plays better on TV.

Plus, for those people worldwide that have never or rarely fly the initial thought was "They can't do that!" Followed by an even more shockingly said "What?! They CAN??!!"

 

[bcla]

Yeah, not everybody sees things,like you do, or travels like you do. It's weird you can't understand that. An 800 voucher to travel late the next afternoon is an offer I would not take. A check for 1600, yeah I would maybe have made that work.

One issue was that this was on a Sunday. If it were on a Saturday I'd think they'd get some takers since they wouldn't need to get to work the next day.

 

[DisBabe94]

more than a request. He was told to adhere to the terms of service of the contract he accepted when purchasing a ticket. leave the airplane.
he refused.

for everyone who thinks the treatment was so repulsive
now just how long was this supposed to go on?
you cant just let him in his seat, everyone would just say no .
they said leave. he said no. he would not go willingly ( again against TOS)

an eyewitness report said it started at very calmly (dont have that on video do we?) then over time, trying to resolve it, it escalates.
I doubt any of the players expected it to go BOOM , but once it starts you can't exactly stop in the middle. I haven't seen anything that said they marched on the plane & just started dragging this guy off.

if someone does not go willingly, someone is going to get hurt.
it couldnt possibly end any other way. I feel he ended looking like an idiot.
you didn't leave quietly with your wife.
now, look what the press dug up abut your life..............

where are all the comments that this ADULT should have acted like one.... & just grumbled, instead of acting like an obnoxious child !

I think the point that a lot of people on this board (myself included) are making is that he should have never been forced to leave the plane in the first place. There are many ways this could have been preemptively solved by United, but wasn't. Instead, it ended with a man being assaulted and the whole world is now seeing that.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yeah, not everybody sees things,like you do, or travels like you do. It's weird you can't understand that. An 800 voucher to travel late the next afternoon is an offer I would not take. A check for 1600, yeah I would maybe have made that work.

But in any other business, you'd either get the amount you paid back or you'd get store credit for that amount. I don't see why anyone would expect an airline to to go above and beyond both federal regulations and company policy.

$800 credit is A LOT for a ticket that was probably less than 300 round trip. You don't have to accept it- I understand not volunteering- but at that point I really don't think United is under any obligation to offer even more. I like to haggle with street vendors, for example- I will intentionally offer lower than whatever the item is worth, and they don't have to accept it. United doesn't have to accept any offer they consider unreasonable. $1600 dollar check for a a delay on your $200 dollar flight- not a reasonable request. Right or wrong, they can legally involuntarily bump people. And passengers are entitled to what the law entitles them to- not more.

 

[mummabear]

more than a request. He was told to adhere to the terms of service of the contract he accepted when purchasing a ticket. leave the airplane.
he refused.

for everyone who thinks the treatment was so repulsive
now just how long was this supposed to go on?
you cant just let him in his seat, everyone would just say no .
they said leave. he said no. he would not go willingly ( again against TOS)

an eyewitness report said it started at very calmly (dont have that on video do we?) then over time, trying to resolve it, it escalates.
I doubt any of the players expected it to go BOOM , but once it starts you can't exactly stop in the middle. I haven't seen anything that said they marched on the plane & just started dragging this guy off.

if someone does not go willingly, someone is going to get hurt.
it couldnt possibly end any other way. I feel he ended looking like an idiot.
you didn't leave quietly with your wife.
now, look what the press dug up abut your life..............

where are all the comments that this ADULT should have acted like one.... & just grumbled, instead of acting like an obnoxious child !

Again, you don't expect United staff to have acted like adults and done their jobs?
If we are going to go on about how this guys should have done z or y then we might as well go to the root cause, United.
What did I expect to happen? I expect United to have put their 4 staff on the other airlines flight with seats available in 1 hour.

Remember, he probably had the one cheapest fares and could have been the last to check in and if the crew did not get there many more people than 4 would have missed their flights. So yea, maybe if he was a millennial the word " entitled " would have cropped up. I am not implying that was the case here, just that a small, elderly physician plays better on TV.

Just because those 4 crew did t make it onto THAT flight doesn't mean that their next flight had no way of being crewed.
Again the U Utes staff could have paid to fly in avalible seats on another airline in 1 hour, the simplest solution.
Not to mention the other various options they could have organised for staffing a plane the next day.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Another problem for me and vouchers is I book flights as soon as they open so I already have 6 months booked on SW and the travel has to be used within a year. This effectively cuts the time I can travel in half. This has happened to me and travel funds at SW.

If I book flights in January for June And find I can't travel the funds are only good until next January however I've already purchased my flight between June and January and can't use the funds.

 

[bcla]

I think the point that a lot of people on this board (myself included) are making is that he should have never been forced to leave the plane in the first place. There are many ways this could have been preemptively solved by United, but wasn't. Instead, it ended with a man being assaulted and the whole world is now seeing that.

No way this becomes as big a story if he walks off the plane under his own power or even if airport police pull him out using force but without injury.

The reason why this has become so big is that the extraction from the plane was botched. I've seen someone removed from a seat before. The police got him out of his seat and on his feet before pulling him out. They did slap cuffs on him after he pushed them, but otherwise it appeared that they did everything possible to minimize injury given the circumstances.

 

[Albort]

Ok. I guess I really don't understand what you are talking about.
There's lots of reasons people wouldn't want vouchers.

ill bet too, u probably the be the first one to get bumped again... the cycle starts all over!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Now the two other officers have been placed on leave, and all of the passengers on the flight are getting a full refund.

http://wgntv.com/2017/04/12/2-addit...ced-on-leave-in-united-passenger-controversy/

"CHICAGO — Fallout continues from the violent removal of a passenger from a United flight earlier this week.

Two additional Chicago Dept of Aviation officers have been placed on leave.

The Chicago Dept of Aviation released a statement saying:

The Chicago Department of Aviation (CDA) continues reviewing the details surrounding the incident. As part of our review, two additional officers have been placed on administrative leave until further notice. The employees ‘ collective bargaining agreement prohibits the CDA from releasing their names at this time.

Additionally, all passengers aboard that flight will get a full refund."

 

[mummabear]

But in any other business, you'd either get the amount you paid back or you'd get store credit for that amount. I don't see why anyone would expect an airline to to go above and beyond both federal regulations and company policy.

But what other industry is the business taking away the goods or service against your wishes?

Here in NZ businesses are responsible for covering consequential loss, in an example like this, that could be 1 days salary if they make you miss work.

Yes legally United were allegeadly entitled to do what they did (it seems there is conflicting legal opionions on this based on the fact he had already boarded)
But the question is are people okay with that? Or do they want to push for change?
Are people happy with airlines Charing them high change fees, but offering low compensation when they bump you, are people happy with airlines selling tickets that have a price factor depending on the time, date and number of stops but then contracting out of having to provide any of those things. Are people happy with airlines intentionally overselling their planes?
Are people happy with an industry that they bailed out, treating their customers like they are nothing?

 

[Westcoastwild]

Upon reflection I agree, would it have sparked the same level of outrage if this gentleman was a college student retuning home to binge watch Netflix in his parents basement?

Remember, he probably had the one cheapest fares and could have been the last to check in and if the crew did not get there many more people than 4 would have missed their flights. So yea, maybe if he was a millennial the word " entitled " would have cropped up. I am not implying that was the case here, just that a small, elderly physician plays better on TV.

Plus, for those people worldwide that have never or rarely fly the initial thought was "They can't do that!" Followed by an even more shockingly said "What?! They CAN??!!"

Yeah. I can definitely see, if people don't fly much, being outraged to find out airlines CAN do this to you. I've learned that airlines can do a lot of things to you with very little explanation. It's super frustrating when they delay your flight without telling you exactly why.

Terms and conditions apply to everything though. Your Netflix account, your Facebook profile, your credit card, Disneyworld tickets. And most people have NO CLUE what the fine print says.

 

[sunshinehighway]

But in any other business, you'd either get the amount you paid back or you'd get store credit for that amount. I don't see why anyone would expect an airline to to go above and beyond both federal regulations and company policy.

$800 credit is A LOT for a ticket that was probably less than 300 round trip. You don't have to accept it- I understand not volunteering- but at that point I really don't think United is under any obligation to offer even more. I like to haggle with street vendors, for example- I will intentionally offer lower than whatever the item is worth, and they don't have to accept it. United doesn't have to accept any offer they consider unreasonable. $1600 dollar check for a a delay on your $200 dollar flight- not a reasonable request. Right or wrong, they can legally involuntarily bump people. And passengers are entitled to what the law entitles them to- not more.

You can't compare air travel to just any other business though. Getting bumped from a flight could have real consequences and losses that you're not going to have in dealings with other businesses.
I think you're basically trying to make the same argument that United did; legal they were right. Yeah it might be true but look where that argument got them. There's a difference between being legally right and doing the right thing. Untied is finding that out.