United Airlines Forces Man off of oversold flight

[DopeyDame]

I really love The Points Guy in general, and I think he nails it with this article, specifically this section:

Clearly, the blame here is on United because it could have done any number of things to avoid this situation — like offering more compensation, sending its employees via another plane, airline or even limousine (not our problem to worry about its employee logistics). I also think the culture of having airport police handling customer service issues (like an overbooking) is out of control, and clearly the security officers were incompetent and excessive in their use of force for a passenger that did nothing wrong but simply sit in a seat that he paid for.

We need to stop the culture of being worthless when flying. Can you imagine this happening at a hotel? You’re in your room that you paid for and they open the door and ask you to leave because a visiting sales executive with the chain needs the room? And if you refuse, cops come and drag you out? It’s ludicrous and wouldn’t happen in any other industry — why do we think it should happen on an airplane? There’s a tweet going around that “United puts the hospital in hospitality,” which is pretty ironic since the airline’s motto is “Fly the Friendly Skies.”

It's worth reading the whole thing: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/i-got-the-united-situation-wrong/

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That's what this implied.

Not if you read back several pages. Context.

 

[twinklebug]

I'd argue they went wrong several steps earlier... and kept making wrong calls!!

We call that a fault tree analysis, and yes, United started the ball rolling down the wrong path. The officers just took the final steps in the demise of the plan. This is on both United and the officers.

 

[twinklebug]

after his head had been hit into a metal armrest and he was bleeding from it? I'm not 69 and I would be confused.

These folk need to be educated on human psychology when to and not to continue pursuing an action. Not everyone has the same biological tolerance for stress. The man was clearly flipping out, but someone else could have had a heart attack under the same situation.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

We call that a fault tree analysis, and yes, United started the ball rolling down the wrong path. The officers just took the final steps in the demise of the plan. This is on both United and the officers.

after an investigation shows this. We KNOW what United did. Have no idea right now what the officers or his man did BEFORE that cell phone video.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Hmmm... I fly JetBlue to WDW every time. I've definitely heard the "it's a full flight check your used-to-be-carry-on"... and I'm pretty sure I've heard announcements of them asking for volunteers to take the next flight... can't be 100% certain though...

I will say that I flew United across the country recently because they were the only ones with direct flights from here at convenient times. All 4 flights they asked for volunteers due to overbooking. Not ok.

I have several friends that work for JetBlue and they DO NOT overbook their flights. However, if they experience crew disruption and the flight is full they will ask for volunteers to take the next flight.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I have several friends that work for JetBlue and they DO NOT overbook their flights. However, if they experience crew disruption and the flight is full they will ask for volunteers to take the next flight.

That explains it. I love JetBlue. We ALWAYS fly JB if they have a direct to wherever we're going. So at minimum, that's EVERY WDW trip.

 

[bcla]

What if your dad had an appointment with this doctor the next day, and ended up getting sick or dying because he couldn't be seen?

Not sure about the "I'm more important than him" card. I get that medical care is important, but there could be people there who might claim extreme financial hardship or a pressing business need where millions of dollars and peoples' futures are involved. There are also patients waiting a long time for very busy specialists, and they could get sicker or even die because they weren't seen in time. We don't necessarily blame such delays for deaths.

It sure didn't work the last time I was on jury duty. We had two doctors who asked to be excused from the jury pool.

So you're telling me that a big organization like Kaiser Permanente doesn't have the medical personnel to fill in for one doctor?​

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Not sure about the "I'm more important than him" card. I get that medical care is important, but there could be people there who might claim extreme financial hardship or a pressing business need where millions of dollars and peoples' futures are involved. There are also patients waiting a long time for very busy specialists, and they could get sicker or even die because they weren't seen in time. We don't necessarily blame such delays for deaths.

It sure didn't work the last time I was on jury duty. We had two doctors who asked to be excused from the jury pool.

So you're telling me that a big organization like Kaiser Permanente doesn't have the medical personnel to fill in for one doctor?​

All the more reason to just keep upping the $$!! VOLUNTEERS!

 

[amberpi]

I wonder what the long term effects of this will be? Today, the stock is all over the place, but long term?

As a frequent traveler there is a lot of buzz not about who was right, wrong, or purple, but that this happened at all. Million mile United travelers don't want this to happen to them and the CEO's reaction inspires no confidence that it won't. If you lose business traveler who seriously don't care about prices, and they start building status with other airlines, you lose them, and that's a huge portion of revenues and a bigger chunk of profits. The fact this is occurred is the issue, if it'd been some drunk/safety threat/druggy it'd be a different story, but the guy was bumped because his number was literally called. He doesn't seem like a great guy, but during this event, he was just the guy who drew the short straw. United doesn't have to lose in court, it's already lost because it started this whole cluster. Maybe for the occasional passenger who just does whatever the airlines say, they'll be ok, but for people who's livelihoods are dependent on air travel, this isn't acceptable at any turn. Out of thousands of flights I've never seen anyone involuntarily bumped from a BOARDED plane, that would make them lose my business, but for them to use to effect that to the point of violence? No. Nope. Never. Not gonna be me. The details after that are insignificant.

Love the hotel comparison!

Really glad tomorrow I fly to Chicago and back via Southwest for a quick meeting, grateful to know that if I get there early, they'll try to get me home early, or if I'm late they'll try to get me on the very next flight. They treat their frequent flyers, and really ALL customers like gold.

 

[DizBelle]

I was on a Continental flight (which is now United) about 5 years ago. We had all boarded when the Captain made an announcement that he wanted to get more fuel because we had to fly around thunderstorms. Then a few minutes later the gate agent came on and said they needed 4 people to volunteer to get off due to weight & balance. This was a full size plane, I couldn't understand how adding this fuel made the plane overweight, we were flying Pittsburgh to Houston, not a long flight. Anyway, they made an offer and no one volunteered. So he left and then came back with the 4 names who needed to get off. He said they were selected by the last 4 people to check-in. Those people peacefully got off.

Of course, it was not right to drag this man off the way they did. But it's illegal to disobey the orders of a flight crew. They may not have known in advance that they needed to get these 4 crew members to Louisville for their next flight, they may have been delayed. If they don't make it to Louisville with the required rest, they would have to cancel or delay their next flight which would inconvenience a lot more people.

Airlines know their schedule many, many months in advance. They know who they are going to need where just as much in advance.

 

[mefordis]

Here is a video from a lawyer reading the contract and giving his opinion on the liability of UAL.

 

[DopeyDame]

Am I the only one who is anxiously awaiting Pete's rant about this? I'm betting it's a doozey! (Although I honestly have no idea what side he'll land on - I love him, but I can't ever predict him

 

[bcla]

I wonder what the long term effects of this will be? Today, the stock is all over the place, but long term?

As a frequent traveler there is a lot of buzz not about who was right, wrong, or purple, but that this happened at all. Million mile United travelers don't want this to happen to them and the CEO's reaction inspires no confidence that it won't. If you lose business traveler who seriously don't care about prices, and they start building status with other airlines, you lose them, and that's a huge portion of revenues and a bigger chunk of profits. The fact this is occurred is the issue, if it'd been some drunk/safety threat/druggy it'd be a different story, but the guy was bumped because his number was literally called. He doesn't seem like a great guy, but during this event, he was just the guy who drew the short straw. United doesn't have to lose in court, it's already lost because it started this whole cluster. Maybe for the occasional passenger who just does whatever the airlines say, they'll be ok, but for people who's livelihoods are dependent on air travel, this isn't acceptable at any turn. Out of thousands of flights I've never seen anyone involuntarily bumped from a BOARDED plane, that would make them lose my business, but for them to use to effect that to the point of violence? No. Nope. Never. Not gonna be me. The details after that are insignificant.

Love the hotel comparison!

Part of the reason for overbooking (even though this wasn't necessarily the case) is unrestricted fare paid for by business travelers. They have the flexibility to not show up or change flights any time, and often they do so for business reasons. That is a huge cash cow for the airlines, and the most loyal business travelers flying unrestricted on business know that they're highly unlikely to be involuntarily booted from a flight because the preferences include how much and how often. They even know there's an implied understanding that if they have to change flights, a high-status passenger flying unrestricted fare can possibly bump a leisure traveler. I remember checking the difference between unrestricted and the lowest nonrefundable fare. I had to delay my plans, but it was as low as $335 round trip for SFO-MIA, but unrestricted was over $1600. I've flown unrestricted once for an interview, and I was rather shocked when I saw the fare. In more recent years when I've flown for interviews, there was a "corporate rate" that was still much more than I'd ever pay myself save an emergency.

 

[amberpi]

Here is a video from a lawyer reading the contract and giving his opinion on the liability of UAL.

That's what I thought based on tons of experience - if you're on the plane they can't bump you involuntarily outside of safety/disorderly conduct thing. Thank you for posting this!

 

[TropicalDIS]

Right, so why did no one else of a whole planeload of people offer to get off instead of him in order to help him out, help the airlines out and get that plane going? Were they just chuckling to themselves saying they were glad it wasn't them who was chosen? If it is no big deal to be picked at random, someone could have gone in his place. That is why this policy, if it is one needs to be changed NOW. No peaceful paying passenger should be removed from their seat on a plane. No one should be put in that position. We are all important.

what if hypothetically he had a 'good' reason (although i suspect all the people seated with him on the plane felt their reasons were good as well) like a funeral to get to? How much do we let the airlines get away with? This needs to stop. it won't until the customer base insists.

Why did nobody else help? Id assume because everybody just wants to go home/on vacation/on their business trip, etc.

As has been said by others in this thread, you buy an airline ticket with an airline, any airline, the fine print is there that allows them to bump you to another flight. You have a seat on that airlight on a flight to your destination of choice, but the airline reserves the right to cancel that flight, change that flight, and change your flight.

Overbooking is a policy that airlines get involved in for financial reasons, no doubt about it.
So if we are talking about getting rid of overbooking flights, then you are looking at price increases across the board. Then people will complain why have prices gone up??

Your final debate is what if he had a good reason to get home. I'd agree with that, if he can provide proof. Otherwise the next person selected will also have a 'valid' reason and so on and so on.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I wonder what the long term effects of this will be? Today, the stock is all over the place, but long term?

As a frequent traveler there is a lot of buzz not about who was right, wrong, or purple, but that this happened at all. Million mile United travelers don't want this to happen to them and the CEO's reaction inspires no confidence that it won't. If you lose business traveler who seriously don't care about prices, and they start building status with other airlines, you lose them, and that's a huge portion of revenues and a bigger chunk of profits. The fact this is occurred is the issue, if it'd been some drunk/safety threat/druggy it'd be a different story, but the guy was bumped because his number was literally called. He doesn't seem like a great guy, but during this event, he was just the guy who drew the short straw. United doesn't have to lose in court, it's already lost because it started this whole cluster. Maybe for the occasional passenger who just does whatever the airlines say, they'll be ok, but for people who's livelihoods are dependent on air travel, this isn't acceptable at any turn. Out of thousands of flights I've never seen anyone involuntarily bumped from a BOARDED plane, that would make them lose my business, but for them to use to effect that to the point of violence? No. Nope. Never. Not gonna be me. The details after that are insignificant.

Love the hotel comparison!

Really glad tomorrow I fly to Chicago and back via Southwest for a quick meeting, grateful to know that if I get there early, they'll try to get me home early, or if I'm late they'll try to get me on the very next flight. They treat their frequent flyers, and really ALL customers like gold.

I wish there would be an outcry among the flying public -- like there was about parking a plane full of people on the runway indefinitely -- that these policies need to change.

Allow overbooking within reason, but have the compensation for bumping be the MARKET PRICE set by the customers on that flight.

Any airlines paying through the nose on these bumps will MAGICALLY fix their problems to be competitive.

 

[dlavender]

I know this for sure, I 100% would have called in sick today if I was an attendant for UA, or worked phone customer service.

 

[amberpi]

Part of the reason for overbooking (even though this wasn't necessarily the case) is unrestricted fare paid for by business travelers. They have the flexibility to not show up or change flights any time, and often they do so for business reasons. That is a huge cash cow for the airlines, and the most loyal business travelers flying unrestricted on business know that they're highly unlikely to be involuntarily booted from a flight because the preferences include how much and how often. They even know there's an implied understanding that if they have to change flights, a high-status passenger flying unrestricted fare can possibly bump a leisure traveler. I remember checking the difference between unrestricted and the lowest nonrefundable fare. I had to delay my plans, but it was as low as $335 round trip for SFO-MIA, but unrestricted was over $1600. I've flown unrestricted once for an interview, and I was rather shocked when I saw the fare. In more recent years when I've flown for interviews, there was a "corporate rate" that was still much more than I'd ever pay myself save an emergency.

Yeah - and this exactly the kind of stuff that business travelers just can't/won't put up with.

 

[DizBelle]

Do you know for a fact that he wasn't offered the maximum compensation when they were trying to get him to leave?

A lot of posters keep mentioning "maximum" compensation. There are DOT regulations that say "maximum of $1350" but would United really be prohibited from offering $1500 or $2000 if that's what it took to get "volunteers"?