Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[JaneBanks]

I read it again. You didn't say racism CANT exist against white people. You said there isn't ANY racism against white people.

"There is no racism against white people".

A distinction without a difference, no?

No, not really. You said that I said only white people can be racist. We all know that that is not true. What I said is that other races can be bigoted against whites. Of course that's true.

When I say that racism can't exist against white people (and I clarify, in this country since I have no experience in any other country), I mean whites will never experience systematic racism that other minorities experience. It just won't ever happen. Whites are in the majority. We are represented in every aspect, we were never an oppressed people, we are never told our natural hair is ugly (and I mean told in indirect or subliminal ways) or that our noses are too big, for example. We won't get pulled over just because we are white and nobody is going to cross the street when they see a white person approaching. I am certainly not saying all white people do this or are conscious of it. I'm just saying there is a white privilege that exists. I equate it to the difference between men and women. Women just know that they are being treated differently because they are women. It's an innate feeling.

I come to this conclusion because I listened to what people of color or any type of minority had to say when they explained what it's like living in this country as a minority. I have mixed race cousins who experience racism (doesn't have to be extreme) every day that I never will because I'm white. To be honest, I might not even notice the racism because it just won't cross my mind that whatever just happened might be racist. I have to trust the people who are living with it and I learn from them.

This is just my opinion and I'm really bad at explaining myself when I'm tired but this is the gist of it. We can agree to disagree.

 

[JoeA]

No, not really. You said that I said only white people can be racist. We all know that that is not true. What I said is that other races can be bigoted against whites. Of course that's true.

When I say that racism can't exist against white people (and I clarify, in this country since I have no experience in any other country), I mean whites will never experience systematic racism that other minorities experience. It just won't ever happen. Whites are in the majority. We are represented in every aspect, we were never an oppressed people, we are never told our natural hair is ugly (and I mean told in indirect or subliminal ways) or that our noses are too big, for example. We won't get pulled over just because we are white and nobody is going to cross the street when they see a white person approaching. I am certainly not saying all white people do this or are conscious of it. I'm just saying there is a white privilege that exists. I equate it to the difference between men and women. Women just know that they are being treated differently because they are women. It's an innate feeling.

I come to this conclusion because I listened to what people of color or any type of minority had to say when they explained what it's like living in this country as a minority. I have mixed race cousins who experience racism (doesn't have to be extreme) every day that I never will because I'm white. To be honest, I might not even notice the racism because it just won't cross my mind that whatever just happened might be racist. I have to trust the people who are living with it and I learn from them.

This is just my opinion and I'm really bad at explaining myself when I'm tired but this is the gist of it. We can agree to disagree.

You did a very good job of explaining yourself and I think we can agree to agree here. What you post is very real and unfortunate.

Where I disagree is with your original post that there isn't racism abound. What you say is very true, but racism does indeed go both ways.

 

[luvsJack]

No, not really. You said that I said only white people can be racist. We all know that that is not true. What I said is that other races can be bigoted against whites. Of course that's true.

When I say that racism can't exist against white people (and I clarify, in this country since I have no experience in any other country), I mean whites will never experience systematic racism that other minorities experience. It just won't ever happen. Whites are in the majority. We are represented in every aspect, we were never an oppressed people, we are never told our natural hair is ugly (and I mean told in indirect or subliminal ways) or that our noses are too big, for example. We won't get pulled over just because we are white and nobody is going to cross the street when they see a white person approaching. I am certainly not saying all white people do this or are conscious of it. I'm just saying there is a white privilege that exists. I equate it to the difference between men and women. Women just know that they are being treated differently because they are women. It's an innate feeling.

I come to this conclusion because I listened to what people of color or any type of minority had to say when they explained what it's like living in this country as a minority. I have mixed race cousins who experience racism (doesn't have to be extreme) every day that I never will because I'm white. To be honest, I might not even notice the racism because it just won't cross my mind that whatever just happened might be racist. I have to trust the people who are living with it and I learn from them.

This is just my opinion and I'm really bad at explaining myself when I'm tired but this is the gist of it. We can agree to disagree.

Racism is not limited to certain acts or treatment. Its about hatred of a person or people of a certain skin color.

White people will never experience the treatment that blacks have endured, but that doesn't mean the racism doesn't exist both ways.

 

[Jennasis]

There is racism against whites, just as there is racism against blacks, Asians, Arabs etc. The racism experienced by one group may not be the same type of experience another has. But it's still racism.

 

[lauradis]

I'm not denying mental illness was involved, of course it was. I'm not speaking of a nation of racists, I'm speaking about this one particular person. I think she's racist but doesn't even realize that she comes off that way, that's the point I was trying to make. I just don't understand why she feels the need to post these criminal stories and then name call. Of course, these posts are filled with racist comments from others and she jumps on the band wagon. The fact that she joins in these comments is why I think she's a racist. There's also a political side to the origination of these posts, but I can't get into that here. But then this happens, she doesn't name call this guy, saying he's mentally ill and it's not really race related.

I never said he wasn't a racist, nor his actions weren't race motivated. Nor was I defending his racist ways.

What I did was stir the pot.

IMHO racism lays in you heart and mind, not your skin color.

If pointing out that any human can be racist makes me a racist then so be it.

 

[Muushka]

To each their own on their beliefs and how they see people. I can't force some one to see things my way. I can only be thankful my parents raised me not to judge people by the color of their skin etc.

No I didn't. I wasn't the only person nearby that heard it said. As I said, around here, you hear that stuff....its just a proven fact around here. I have only ever said something to my aunt's mother in law about using that word, luckily she's finally stopped using it

I would also love to know exactly where in the south you live.
I also live in the south and that kind of public talk simply does not exist.

Again, if I heard it, I would say something to the slime who said it.

I'm going to say my piece and then just keep reading..

I'm not singling you out, but this post caught my eye..

Saying guns are not the problem, IMO, is burying your (collective your) head in the sand. Canada has mental illness, bad parenting, pure evil as well yet has NOWHERE NEAR the gun violence that the U.S. does. Yes, the populations are different (we are roughly 1/10th) but even taking that into consideration the numbers wouldn't match up.

I read somewhere that this was the 140th mass shooting (more than 4 victims) of 2015!

If having someone kill kindergarteners wasn't enough to make you realize there is a real problem, nothing will.

Like I said, this is just my opinion and I'll go back to just reading now. Feel free to ignore this if you want to keep this thread friendly as it should be.

As was mentioned by Marc, your stats are whack. Gathered by people with an agenda. (reminds me of Fast and Furious)

This is a tragedy of monumental proportions.
Just as it was at VA Tech, Columbine, Aurora CO movie theater, the Washington Navy Yard ...
I'll leave out Ft. Hood because that was actually a terrorist attack (rather than workplace violence).

And tell us what all of those mass shootings had in common?

 

[mnrose]

Just as it was at VA Tech, Columbine, Aurora CO movie theater, the Washington Navy Yard ...
I'll leave out Ft. Hood because that was actually a terrorist attack (rather than workplace violence).

And tell us what all of those mass shootings had in common?

I know! I know! Pick me.

They all had in common ready access to firearms. Let's not acknowledge the obvious though.

Let's bury our heads in the sand and pretend that unfettered gun ownership is more important than the lives of innocent men, women and children.

 

[kimblebee]

I would also love to know exactly where in the south you live.
I also live in the south and that kind of public talk simply does not exist.

Again, if I heard it, I would say something to the slime who said it.





As was mentioned by Marc, your stats are whack. Gathered by people with an agenda. (reminds me of Fast and Furious)

This is a tragedy of monumental proportions.
Just as it was at VA Tech, Columbine, Aurora CO movie theater, the Washington Navy Yard ...
I'll leave out Ft. Hood because that was actually a terrorist attack (rather than workplace violence).

And tell us what all of those mass shootings had in common?

They all involved guns. Not knives, not chainsaws, not poisons.

Guns.

 

[Muushka]

Yup. Mental illness had absolutely nothing to do with any of those mass shootings.

Talk about burying your collective heads in the sand.

 

[dinolounger]

Do you realize how offensive it is for a symbol of the Confederacy to be flying high while other flags are at half staff? How tone deaf that is? And how insensitive the officials defending that appear?

The issue in discussion here isn't just the insensitivity of not lowering all flags to half staff. It's the blatant rush of certain constituencies who have been obsessed with the visibility of everything and anything associated with the confederacy to (in hugely predictable fashion) use this tragedy as an excuse to fulfill their real agenda: permanent removal of the flag. As a certain politician put it, they are following the standard "never let a good crisis go to waste" playbook.

First off, no one is trying to obliterate history by decrying what certain symbols have come to represent.

Oh, please. Attempts to remove symbols based on a desire to bury southern history are rampant:

http://www.pressreader.com/usa/daily-times-primos-pa/20150621/281552289498420/TextView

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/27/us/enduring-symbols-of-the-confederacy-divide-the-south-anew.html

The action by the SC legislature, just a few years ago, that changed the State's flag and establishe the rules you reference doesn't allow a majority of legislators to change the rules. Nope, a super majority is required - 3/4s.

I didn't say it required a simple majority of the legislature. If the voters in SC had a big issue with the super majority clause, they presumably would have already used the political process to try and change it.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Deleted

 

[Luvchefmic]

FoxNews has live broadcast for the church service you can watch even if you don't have a cable TV service

http://livetvcafe.net/video/7RDR4DAYSBMO/Fox-News

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Are you suggesting that if that flag wasn't there, he wouldn't have done this?

That flag nor any other made him what he is. Where this tragedy took place does not change that.

The same racist sentiment that keeps that flag flying where it is and his sentiments are different only in degree. The difference is he was a disturbed individual that acted more radically and in a more evil fashion on that sentiment.

The issue in discussion here isn't just the insensitivity of not lowering all flags to half staff. It's the blatant rush of certain constituencies who have been obsessed with the visibility of everything and anything associated with the confederacy to (in hugely predictable fashion) use this tragedy as an excuse to fulfill their real agenda: permanent removal of the flag. As a certain politician put it, they are following the standard "never let a good crisis go to waste" playbook.



Oh, please. Attempts to remove symbols based on a desire to bury southern history are rampant:

http://www.pressreader.com/usa/daily-times-primos-pa/20150621/281552289498420/TextView

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/27/us/enduring-symbols-of-the-confederacy-divide-the-south-anew.html



I didn't say it required a simple majority of the legislature. And if the voters in SC didn't like the super majority clause at they would have already used to political process to try and change it.

Southerners that have tried to hide their sordid racist history behind false romanticized versions of the same have done more to bury real southern history more than anyone seeking to remove these symbols of racism and treason could ever hope to achieve.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I just watched the Rev Goff give his service in the church I aspire to have the faith and strength that was displayed in the church this morning Right now that's really all that matters

 

[TheDisneyNurse]

I just watched the Rev Goff give his service in the church I aspire to have the faith and strength that was displayed in the church this morning Right now that matters

Couldn't agree with you any more.

 

[kimblebee]

Yup. Mental illness had absolutely nothing to do with any of those mass shootings.

Talk about burying your collective heads in the sand.

I didn't say mental illness had nothing to do with it. I'm just saying guns were the weapon of choice.

This is the last thing I'm saying on this because the OP requested that this not be a thread on gun debate. I choose to respect that request.

 

[Luvchefmic]

My belief there is good in the world and evil in the world. Evil will find a way and Good will overcome.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I would also love to know exactly where in the south you live.
I also live in the south and that kind of public talk simply does not exist.

Again, if I heard it, I would say something to the slime who said it.





As was mentioned by Marc, your stats are whack. Gathered by people with an agenda. (reminds me of Fast and Furious)

This is a tragedy of monumental proportions.
Just as it was at VA Tech, Columbine, Aurora CO movie theater, the Washington Navy Yard ...
I'll leave out Ft. Hood because that was actually a terrorist attack (rather than workplace violence).

And tell us what all of those mass shootings had in common?

This was a terrorist attack as well.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Where there's a will, there is always a way...

At least three killed in Austria after man drives into crowd before 'stabbing passers-by' in Graz

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...fore-stabbing-passersby-in-graz-10333891.html

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I know! I know! Pick me.

They all had in common ready access to firearms. Let's not acknowledge the obvious though.

Let's bury our heads in the sand and pretend that unfettered gun ownership is more important than the lives of innocent men, women and children.

They all happened in a place the shooter chose specificaly because they knew their victims would be unarmed.


And let's be clear here - you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Even if we could all agree to outlaw all private possession of firearms today (and good luck with that), there are 300 million guns in the US. You won't get them all. You won't even get most of them. Guns are durable goods. Firearms from the 1800's are still out there being used on a regular basis. There hasn't been any significant advancement in firearms in more than 100 years. The gun used in the church was a model 1911 - named after the year it was first produced. It's currently the most popular handgun in the US (and for the record, the magazine holds just 7 rounds). People can obtain pot, coke, meth, and heroin almost anywhere, anytime. Do you really believe it would be any different with guns were they to become illegal?