Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[mnrose]

So this issue can be discussed only within the framework of gun control or racism, depending on the agenda du jour? What if a factual analysis of the case reveals a mentally ill individual whose illness caused him to become paranoid and/or fixated on racist propaganda leading him to slaughter innocent people? Is that worthy of discussion or concern? Are we only to be concerned about racism arising systemically from cultural ignorances, disregarding the implications of ignoring mental illness issues in this country because they're not trending on twitter today?

I'm going to say again, if the shooter had been black and/or Muslim, no one would be saying "maybe he's just mentally ill." Seriously. Certain segments of posters here would be screaming from the rooftops about terrorism.

 

[delyrium]

Well, I've read that there are a lot of instances of PTSD among violent young people, but anyway, I'm just saying- something has messed you up when you decide to murder a human being. But we don't need to do all kinds of gymnastics to come up with a diagnosis for this guy. He's a racist with genocidal impulses.

 

[Anesthesia Fine]

So this issue can be discussed only within the framework of gun control or racism, depending on the agenda du jour?

Racism's been on the "agenda" for years. I'm not sure why all of a sudden it needs to be discounted: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...lagued-black-churches-for-generations/396212/

 

[mnrose]

So sad it's crazy the amount of violent crimes that are happening.

What's crazy is how desensitized we have become to it. :-(

 

[disneyjunkie]

Actually I wouldn't consider most poverty stricken that kill others mentally ill at all. They do what they do because of the environment that they grew up in. They may in a turf, drug, or gang war. This is why you see a lot of killings in these areas, not because they can be categorized as being mentally ill or unstable.

And I believe this piece of garbage just killed 9 people because he grew up with racist parents, in a racist family, living amongst racist neighbors. ..who all taught him to hate. He is a product of the env5he grew up in.

Hopefully when he goes to trail, the jury won't be packed with a bunch of his fellow racists.

Pretty soon we will see family and friends coming forward playing the mental illness card. Not one will admit that they raised a punk ***, racist terrorist

 

[littlejimmy]

What's crazy is how desensitized we have become to it. :-(

I think this thread proves the exact opposite. we are outraged, and trying to express it. I don't know anyone who is desensitized to this.

 

[lustergirl]

I'm going to say again, if the shooter had been black and/or Muslim, no one would be saying "maybe he's just mentally ill." Seriously. Certain segments of posters here would be screaming from the rooftops about terrorism.

True.

 

[SirDuff]

Are you actually kidding me right now? Why? Why must we assume mental illness is the key versus taking the man at his word? Is there anyone who goes around shooting people that isn't mentally disturbed? Are the young people shooting each other up in poverty stricken neighborhoods mentally ill? Very likely. But I don't really care, I just want stray bullets to stop hitting babies.

I think that, sometimes, people go to mental illness as a safety mechanism. A way of making "sense" of the unfathomable. Not sure I'm explaining myself well, but since one cannot imagine another person doing such an thing, one rationalizes it by thinking that the other person is mentally ill.

 

[lustergirl]

Well, I've read that there are a lot of instances of PTSD among violent young people, but anyway, I'm just saying- something has messed you up when you decide to murder a human being. But we don't need to do all kinds of gymnastics to come up with a diagnosis for this guy. He's a racist with genocidal impulses.

True again.

 

[lustergirl]

I think that, sometimes, people go to mental illness as a safety mechanism. A way of making "sense" of the unfathomable. Not sure I'm explaining myself well, but since one cannot imagine another person doing such an thing, one rationalizes it by thinking that the other person is mentally ill.

Agree. And at trial they try to put forth a insanity plea but most of the time it doesn't work.

 

[Vaughn4380]

And I believe this piece of garbage just killed 9 people because he grew up with racist parents, in a racist family, living amongst racist neighbors. ..who all taught him to hate.

Just wondering, is this being reported in the media? Link maybe?

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I think that, sometimes, people go to mental illness as a safety mechanism. A way of making "sense" of the unfathomable. Not sure I'm explaining myself well, but since one cannot imagine another person doing such an thing, one rationalizes it by thinking that the other person is mentally ill.

Yes.

I think you're right because the only other explanation for someone doing something like this that they are just plain "evil".

Neither is wrong IMO...

 

[lustergirl]

Stuff like this just leaves a person shaking their head, asking why??

 

[cabanafrau]

Are you actually kidding me right now? Why? Why must we assume mental illness is the key versus taking the man at his word? Is there anyone who goes around shooting people that isn't mentally disturbed? Are the young people shooting each other up in poverty stricken neighborhoods mentally ill? Very likely. But I don't really care, I just want stray bullets to stop hitting babies.

No, I am not kidding. I expect it highly likely that mental illness will be a factor here based on several things being reported. Yes, there are indeed plenty of people who shoot others who are not mentally ill. I see people involved in violent criminal behavior on a daily basis and talk to plenty of them. Often the mentally ill spin a tale they believe is 100-percent truthful, and a valid basis for committing whatever act it is they've been arrested for. You can see them two months later after they're on meds and they not only don't believe those old thoughts anymore, they may not even remember having the thoughts.

What's important is what is factually truthful, not what fits anybody's preconceived notions about why they think a crime happened. Labeling this case anything at this point and insisting the situation be fixed by addressing X makes little sense. Is racism repugnant? Absolutely. Hysterically insisting that because he declared these thoughts it's simply cut and dried he's racist, end of story, isn't the most logical way to insure bullets stop hitting babies. Mental illness is a critical issue in this country as well, one we need to do a better job treating if we're really serious about lives mattering.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Just wondering, is this being reported in the media? Link maybe?

Just wondering, is this being reported in the media? Link maybe?

I don't need the media to tell me what to believe. A person that young with that level of hate learned it from somewhere. I believe he learned it from family, friends and his community .

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Waiting for people to call him what he really is: a thug, and a terrorist. Or are people going to pass this off as "just another whack job loner"? If the shooter was black or Muslim, I'm guessing the headlines would be vastly different.

There IS racism in this country, and this is a loud and clear example. They exist. We must acknowledge it or we will never move past it.

One if the times where there should be no question that this dude was exponentially racist. Not a single thing has come out to indicate otherwise. And I am inclined to believe the few reports from the people who survived.

 

[MarcW]

The shooter was previously arrested with suboxone which has been linked to severe behavioral changes and violent outbursts in usually mild mannered people. That combined with the 24/7 coverage of the recent riots and inner city violence could certainly push a racist, nut job over the edge. It works with what he said at the church.

My question is if he is so afraid of supposed black rapists taking over America why go to a CHURCH and shoot people? Aren't church goers usually the ones fighting the kind of stuff he was so afraid of? That doesn't make any kind of sense. I wonder if he knew the pastor was a Senator?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I am not trying to argue, I don't care what he said. That is no reason to do this.

Not to get I to semantics or argue...

He had a reason to do this. It just was a poor one.

What he didn't have was an excuse to do this as nothing excuses this act.

 

[Kitty 34]

What a sad sad tragedy!

And thank you DIS for letting us talk about this and I don't mean this at all snarky.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's fine. State your opinion or don't. Not sure why you have to be disrespectful to mine.

FYI--debates and politics aren't allowed anyway and all the OP wants to do is to keep this thread from turning into one. So in a way she would like the subject to not dwell into well known territory for debate so that the shooting can be discussed.

She is trying to prevent the the thread from shutting down. So you can either respect that and discuss the tragedy or if your goal is to have a thread to shut down, start you own.

It isn't about disrespect. It is about experience with what happens when topics turn to debate in political matters.

You can respect that, right?