TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[Angel Ariel]

as for why we "haters" still come to this board. Once at the beginning of all of this starting, i said it was like losing your best friend. And it still feels that way to a degree. You love that friend but you don't like the decisions that they are making and the direction their life is going. But if you really love them that doesn't change because of those things. You still love that friend. You are just confused and sad that they are changing. But you still love them. Us "haters" don't hate disney. We hate the decisions they are making and the direction their "life" is headed. Believe it or not, you can still love them and not agree with everything they are doing. Some of the biggest "haters" are also the biggest lovers of disney. And besides, for some things, they still have great advice to share and i am thankful they are here!

ita!

 

[disneyholic family]

I'm very curious whether Disney has underestimated the effect of unhappy guests, both fans and first-timers, especially in this internet age. Years ago, at my son's playgroup, a mom told about ten families her terrible experience at MK over Christmas, highlighted by two hours in line for Peter Pan. When she wasn't there, I had conversations with some people about *my* recent trip, explaining fastpast, rope drop, and traveling in less busy times. Now, a hundred people could be "listening in" on those conversations, good and bad. Even those who love the new system may scare people away with talk of reserving times two months ahead.

good point about the internet's impact!

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

interesting analysis - and i think you may be right regarding how the suits are looking at it....(i'm also in group B at this point)
i don't think the suits are right, but that probably is what they're thinking...

why aren't they right? because if they lose the fans (group B), eventually they'll lose at least some of the first timers who are influenced by the fans....

i'm sure i'm not the only one on this board who has influenced people to go to WDW..
over the years, zillions of people have come to me for help with their trips and i've helped them wholeheartedly...encouraged them, drawn up plans for them..etc etc.
but lately i've dreaded people asking me....
i'm not 100% sure of the kind of experience they'll have (whereas i used to be) and so i'm much less enthusiastic about helping them plan....
and as i said, i'm sure i'm not the only one...
perhaps it doesn't have much impact on the numbers....but maybe it does...
when someone like Pete Werner gets on his podcast and rants about WDW....and tells people that they're right for feeling as they do....and that if they feel that way, they should vote with their feet by not going...well, all i'm saying is that those execs might not be considering all the implications of their decisions...

I agree with this! Just with my little family. I've convinced and helped 3 different sets of other family to attend. I convinced my best friend to take her family and she has since brought no less 6 different groups of other friends with them and even purchased a time share in the area. Her family are not planning of inviting anyone else to share their timeshare with them anymore at this point because they are not happy with the changes that are happening. She has never posted or visits DIS and probably never will. I have also passed on advice to many causal friends that were on fence about going. Now when anyone I know mentions going to Disney, I mostly stay quiet. How many yearly guest are doing the same thing?? How many of those same guest use to sing Disney's praises? It is mostly the very guest that were Disney's biggest cheerleaders that Disney seems to be pushing to the side.

 

[JanaDee]

For those of us who say the resorts are part of our vacation- it's a great deal more than just sitting by the pool. Depending on the resort, there are lots of things to do. Biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list.

I can do all that in my backyard, most of it free. It isn't free at Disney.

We go to Disney to ride rides and do things we can't do anywhere else.

 

[surferdave]

As for why we "haters" still come to this board. Once at the beginning of all of this starting, I said it was like losing your best friend. And it still feels that way to a degree. You love that friend but you don't like the decisions that they are making and the direction their life is going. But if you really love them that doesn't change because of those things. You still love that friend. You are just confused and sad that they are changing. But you still love them. Us "haters" don't hate Disney. We hate the decisions they are making and the direction their "life" is headed. Believe it or not, you can still love them and not agree with everything they are doing. Some of the biggest "haters" are also the biggest lovers of Disney. And besides, for some things, they still have great advice to share and I am thankful they are here!

I hereby name the current park management Judith.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

Even those who love the new system may scare people away with talk of reserving times two months ahead.

This! We traveled this year with some extended family and the dad from the other family almost checked out and cancelled the whole trip when we started pressing him to help decide to pick rides months before we even left home. We had to just leave him out of the planning. We even had to take him off of our group emails because every time I would send a reminder we needed to start thinking about making some plans, he would start stressing. So I agree, even those that love the new system and come home to tell others about how great it was that we got to pick our 3 favorite rides before we even got to the park, may just turn some people off. It is just not an idea that all first timers will love.

 

[mom2rtk]

I can do all that in my backyard, most of it free. It isn't free at Disney.

We go to Disney to ride rides and do things we can't do anywhere else.

It takes a lot of hubris to get guests to pay top dollar for park entrance then try to nudge them away from the parks.

 

[crazycatlady]

It takes a lot of hubris to get guests to pay top dollar for park entrance then try to nudge them away from the parks.

I agree.

 

[Planogirl]

If what I said about Universal somehow insults you, then I'm just not going to lose any sleep over the rest of it. Good Lord, how in the world my opinion of an amusement park could insult someone else personally is beyond me.

That was part of my point. People defend what they love and I believe that you are defending WDW. There is nothing wrong with that but some people will feel put out if part of that defense is questioning why someone would come here just to say bad things. I won't defend Universal unless I see something untrue because everyone has different tastes and I can't expect everyone to love what I do. I think that the same is true of WDW. Some people will see what is going on in a negative way and there is nothing wrong with saying so.

At least this has been true of others. If you are an exception then this certainly doesn't apply to you.

By the way, I am not personally insulted. It takes way more than that.

 

[momof2n2]

It takes a lot of hubris to get guests to pay top dollar for park entrance then try to nudge them away from the parks.

Hubris. Such a fun (& fitting) word.

 

[bcrook]

It takes a lot of hubris to get guests to pay top dollar for park entrance then try to nudge them away from the parks.

After reading through all of these posts. This is the perfect summary!

Although I always love the Caveman math.

 

[Planogirl]

It takes a lot of hubris to get guests to pay top dollar for park entrance then try to nudge them away from the parks.

For real.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't care much for the fast pass option at all. I don't like that I need to figure out what rides I want to go on 60 dad from now. The same goes for ADR who knows if my family will be in the mood got Italian, fish, or steak 180 days in advance. If disney changes everything to fast pass + we r done. I don't like to have every minute if my vacaton scheduled

You sum up so quickly what so many of us think. I agree with you 100%.

 

[cakebaker]

I can do all that in my backyard, most of it free. It isn't free at Disney.

We go to Disney to ride rides and do things we can't do anywhere else.

Some is free, some cost extra.

Yes, I can single find most of these things at home- but I can find rides at home too. I don't know where you live, but as for me- I'd have a hard time finding some of most of these activities in my backyard for free though.

My point is, it's all there at Disney, all in one confined area. That's what I think a lot of people find attractive. Not everyone, of course.

 

[Suvadoo]

Some is free, some cost extra.

Yes, I can single find most of these things at home- but I can find rides at home too.

My point is, it's all there at Disney, all in one confined area. That's what I think a lot of people find attractive. Not everyone, of course.

For lots of additional money!! Just like the hard ticket events!

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Depending on the resort, there are lots of things to do. Biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list. We've been to WDW many times and haven't done half the things there are to do at any given resort we've stayed at. I understand if none of that is of interest, but it's not just sitting at a pool. Plus there are the water parks as well.
.

I can do all that in my backyard, most of it free. It isn't free at Disney.

Agreed-except when it 20 below and a foot of snow.

Got me wondering what effect geographical location might have on this subject. That and if you have been many times so things are less important.

For us this makes a huge difference.

A week off from 8 months of winter means we are going somewhere warm (not hot, not cold)-period.

Then the question is what do we want to accomplish?

Florida winter and especially spring weather (while still winter up here) has always been great mostly because we stay the 2 weekends-so close to 12 days usually. So we do AP and get at least 2 trips in each year one year apart.

Love the WDW parks-rides-shows-atmosphere-magic/pixie dust-service.

Love the WDW deluxe resorts, walk to at least one park, but usually YC/BC/BWI for no buses to 2 parks. We waste less time knowing how long it will take to get to the parks.

Fine dining-while spendy is very good at WDW and just another part of a great week off.

But its still a break from winter, so the other things on the list, plus getting some sun and rest are super relaxing and fun as well.

So thats why "we" like both the resorts and things outside the parks-as well as the parks themselves. We do every evening in a park with a night show etc-just seems even more magical at night. But very few mornings.

Sure we could pick warmer places, better biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list, but we cant pop into the MK for the Mountains, or DHS for Fantasmic, or EPCOT for a great evening.

But I also could see if we lived somewhere warm all year-it would not have the draw for those other things we are escaping for/from.

Or if we did visit WDW in the summer-yuck, it would have to be early entry and get done what we could, then back for the evening-but probably minimal Biking, fishing, boat excursions, movies, campfires, shopping, dining, horseback riding, spas, ...it's a long list.

 

[cakebaker]

It takes a lot of hubris to get guests to pay top dollar for park entrance then try to nudge them away from the parks.

And again, that is assuming that's Disney's intent, to push people away from the parks. They are clearly pushing for resort stays, but I don't think their intent with fp+ is to make the park experience less desirable and thereby push people into their resorts.

Once paid for, it's quite easy not to spend a dime at your resort. Even food, if you pick the right resort, doesn't have to be eaten out. If you're in the parks, unless you bring a picnic basket, you're eating there, meals and those expensive little snacks add up. Your kids are tempted by trinkets there. Their money is at the park, not the resort.

 

[cakebaker]

For lots of additional money!! Just like the hard ticket events!

It's not all extra cost, some of it is pricey and some isn't. WDW has never been a bargain vacation destination.

My point was in response to the notion that if you spent time at your resort, all there is to do is lay by the pool. Not true.

 

[Suvadoo]

It's not all extra cost, some of it is pricey and some isn't. WDW has never been a bargain vacation destination.

My point was in response to the notion that if you spent time at your resort, all there is to do is lay by the pool. Not true.

Agreed on WDW not being a bargain, but I have the opinion that I shouldn't have to pay for additional excursions or entertainment. I think my park tickets should be enough.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Some is free, some cost extra.

Yes, I can single find most of these things at home- but I can find rides at home too.

My point is, it's all there at Disney, all in one confined area. That's what I think a lot of people find attractive. Not everyone, of course.

I can find roller coasters near my house, which my son will not ride. We love Disney for the highly themed rides that we can go on together for a family. And since the tickets are the most expensive component if our trip, we want to get a lot of value from them. My kids like swimming at the resort and visiting the water parks, but they also like going on their favorite rides several times. And a 10 year old is much harder to distract with a Mickey bar.

We do love spending time at the water parks though. We had such a relaxing day at BB on our last trip. Most likely because it didn't involve making any plans or FP+ reservations.