Hoping to synthesize some of this
If I can add, I agree, but what is unique is the parks. Why would you take them out of the equation even if you are just visiting them 4 to 6 hours a day?
Give any example of resorts, or golf course areas, or beaches-and then put the WDW parks within walking distance, but with FP+ (reducing the best headliner windows, but also reserving them) and then decide which one you would use your one week a year off at.
For our family, WDW is first and foremost about experiencing the rides and shows in the parks. A character breakfast in a resort can be fun, too; but it is far from any kind of draw.
I agree, I think the time at the resorts can be fun and relaxing. But I don't think that's a Disney Resort thing, that could be found at hundreds of other resorts across the country. People come for the parks.
But you are right. People with either adjust to the new way or they will find other places to go on vacation.
Most definitely!
So it is like Disney decided to build these really cool parks to draw people to Orlando and it has worked very good. Now instead of making the parks better to handle all of these people, they are looking for ways to get these people out of the parks. "Come visit our cool parks that cost alot of money, spend only a few hours and then get out so that we can get more people in" But since they don't have enough rooms to supply the parks with all the guest they need, it is crazy idea that they aren't worried about pleasing the off-site guest at all. Too me, the reason Disney stated they started with fp+ was to lock guest into their parks before leaving home. If that isn't targeted at off-site guest, I'm not sure what is. You have to admit that if you pay so much to stay at a Disney resort and get them to pick you up at the air port, you are probably going to be a good bit of your time at a Disney resort. It is those off-site guest that they need to run their parks that they have to worry about seeing all the cool signs for those other Orlando parks and decide to check those out instead of Disney. If those guest have already bought Disney tickets to book fp+s, then more than likely, they are going to be spending their time in Disney parks.
For sure this is what they are after. Make it so us off-site folks have to lock in one special ride a day (if we can get it). But where it blows my mind is == JUST ONE? You really think my family loves your product so much that we'll drop that kind of money to ride one special ride once per day?
Exactly.
The Disney Resorts are fine, but there isn't anything wildly special about them, other than being in proximity to the parks and having that feeling of the bubble.
I agree. If someone thinks it is an enjoyable vacation to spend 4-6 hours at the parks plus a bunch of other stuff (swimming, shopping, mini golf, waterparks, golf, etc), then it is still a great choice as a vacation. Absolutely.
For me, when I take the cost into consideration, especially considering airfare
, 4-6 hours at the parks starts to seem a bit too expensive. I can do everything else Disney/Orlando offers somewhere else, for either less money or with added features like being near the ocean, a better climate, more beautiful terrain, etc.
Okay - I'm the crazy NYer that loves the climate of Florida. We will continue to make FL our vacation destination, but it won't be WDW-centric. The panhandle beaches and cruise ports will be our focus until (if) this mess at WDW improves.
IF you take the parks out of the equation- which I don't think is even close to a reasonable guess on what Disney intends to do.
I didn't say that I could vacation at a resort and have an experience that is very enjoyable. Could I go other places and get the same or better? Yes- but nowhere I know of offers the resort/park experience Disney does and I think it's just beyond crazy to think Disney wants out of the theme park business.
I don't think they want out of the theme park business, but I think they are banking on Disney-philes to change what they expect in their park experience. Many, many will settle for their changes.
For those of us who are able to walk away from the Disney tie-ins, there are other destinations (Dollywood, Universal) that offer a whole-bubble-experience.
I've always known Disney focused on maximizing profit, but they seemed to follow the happy guest = increased revenue business model for the most part.
But, as attendance has gone up over the years, especially first time guests from across the country and world, they've viewed customer service as less important. It's more important to make the guest behave in a way that maximizes profit.
From a financial standpoint, clearly Disney's best guest stays for a minimum of one week in a Disney resort, eating only Disney food, preferably expensive meals, and participating in activities that cost extra. They behave in predictable ways at the parks, so there's never excess staffing -- that's major. They don't waste too much time in line, so they can shop more and have overpriced table service meals. They also spend less time in the park per day of their tickets, and spend more time lounging, shopping, and doing extras. They certainly don't spend 12-16 hours rushing from one ride to another. They're first time and possibly only-time guests, so they forget their budget and must have every souvenir. The magic band works even better than credit cards to make them spend more than they should. They also have lowered expectations...one time per attraction is perfectly adequate.
They are absolutely NOT Florida residents with APs who take up space on rides and require staffing without spending any money. They're also not off-siters who are likely (A) Good at sticking to a budget and (B) Not caught up in Disney fever, and (C) will be eating non-Disney meals and even doing non-Disney activities and shopping.
The big flaw in the logic is that the "ideal guests" don't carry them through economic recessions and do complain to family, friends, and the internet if their vacations were not worth the money. If Disney sees significant drops in attendance, it's not going to happen for a couple years. Right now, families are feeling more confident about taking those big vacations, international travel continues to grow, and Frozen is a huge draw.
This is the post that got me to sit at my computer despite a million things going on around me. This is what I have been thinking for the last 12 months.
I am going to divide WDW guests into three categories:
A. Frequent visitors who are just fine with the FP+ changes. These folks might like it better because they can sleep in, or because they aren't ride-focused, or they've been/they go so very often. FP+ either improves their experience or just changes it slightly.
B. Frequent visitors who aren't happy with the FP+ changes for their own reasons. Former RD-commandos who now are being asked to settle for maybe one ride on their favorites, and maybe having to miss out on some of what they have come to expect. This group will either decrease the amount of time or amount of trips to WDW. (I'm this group.)
C. First time or rare (once a decade) visitors. They have little experience and are awestruck. They take what they are offered b/c they are AT DISNEY WORLD and it's a dream come true.
And - it's this last group that make the losses in the second group insignificant to WDW execs. Group C is seemingly endless. For every group B family that drops out, there is another group C family to take their place.
They do need to add more perks, IF they want to get more guests to stay there. We never stay off site. We wouldn't go to WDW if we couldn't. It's a part of the experience that is like no other place on earth. I don't think they offer enough- but we will still stay on site with the current perks. What I look forward to is even more perks with Disney's push to encourage on site stays.
Staying offsite means I either put up with pretty intermittent bus service or I drive my car to the parks. Honestly, I don't even know what the TTC looks like, nor do I want to. I watch those masses coming off that boat to the MK and think everytime, thank God I don't have to do that. I see the thousands of people lined up at closing for the trams, monorail or boat and I can't imagine dealing with that. If for no other reason than location, we will always stay on site.
I don't want a kitchen on vacation. We stay at the Villas often, but not for the kitchen other than it's nice to have a full size fridge for leftovers or pop- stuff for the little one. We don't cook there. I don't cook on vacation. I don't want to make beds or clean our room. I don't want to do laundry. Those things are not a vacation to me.
I can respect others' ideas of what a vacation is. For me hotels are on par with dorm life. I like my vacation accommodations to be equal with, or nice than, my home living conditions. We do not all sleep in the same room at home, nor at home do we tiptoe around in the dark to get dressed if we rise early. It's all good for people to have different expectations. WDW will never be able to offer an on-site option that works for my family in the budget I'm willing to allocate to accommodations.
That's only if you believe they'll ever go to strictly reserved lines and I don't.
I think the comments another poster made may be right on track- they're trying to change to fp+ being the "regular" line and standby being a true standby line. Makes a lot of sense to me. You have the choice to get a fp+, it's really not often that you just absolutely cannot get one and even then, it's only for a very small minority of rides.
Right now, it SDMT and A&E. All the others are available at 60 days- almost without fail. I haven't seen a post from anyone saying they couldn't get one. Most are available at 30 days, a lot are available same day.
Let's not blow it out of proportion- it really is just 1 ride people are having trouble securing fp+ for. So to say some people get to ride and others don't is a huge exaggeration.
Yes and no. With tiering they've taken away our option to secure rides on more than one favorite. And they've slapped our hands and said, "You can only ride it ONCE, you ride-monger!"
Exactly.
People have reported being told that the FP+ are all gone and NOT being told that they should check back later. If standby is not an option, they would be shut out. All of this makes for a system that is hardly user-friendly for the average guest.
But he survived, and he can ride coasters at home.
