TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

[sharonped]

I don't know. I felt that moving to FP+ rather than FP was unnecessary, but the powers that be felt it was necessary so people were locked into a specific park. Going to a 100% FP+ system for a number of rides will do an even better job of making sure people are locked into a specific park because there are plenty of rides people want to ride. Currently, a person might get FP+ for Mine Train, Space Mountain, and Splash Mountain. That only locks them in for those hours, though. By making Mine Train, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, Peter Pan's Flight, Haunted Mansion, and Pirates of the Caribbean FP+ only, a person would, in theory, book all of these for the same day, thereby locking them in to Magic Kingdom all day. Also, my family has noticed that FP+ makes it so we spend less time in the parks. We aren't going to stand in long lines and FP+ makes it so we are only guaranteed those 3 rides with minimal wait, unlike how legacy FP was. So, after our initial 3, we are more likely to leave. And, we are more likely to sleep in and not do rope drop at places like Epcot where there aren't many rides to begin with and not a big chance of doing the headliners more than once. So, if you go to a FP+ system for the majority of rides, a person will more than likely be locked in for a longer period of time at a park. Between rides, they are more likely to shop or eat. Those things are likely if the person is back at the hotel taking a nap or going for a swim. I honestly wouldn't assume Disney hasn't considered this just yet.

ooohhhh...not only that, but if they spaced out the rides far enough, you wouldn't leave the park. So what's left between those 6 or 7 FP+ only rides? Shopping and eating of course. Diabolical.

 

[wisblue]

Working backwards from what they do or don't do can show what their focus is.

Using the example of the shows, when I see the same shows there year after year after year, I conclude that their focus is first-timers, not frequent visitors. My local arts center has to constantly switch shows out to keep themselves in business. How can a company like Disney not have the money to switch them out more often? Because they've decided they don't need or want to. They would rather go to the literal ends of the earth to get new, first-time customers.

That's my theory anyway

It really is a juggling act for Disney because everything is new or relatively new for first time and infrequent visitors and they are more inclined to want to see as many different things as possible instead of doing some of the same things multiple times in a trip. Frequent new and revised attractions are not needed for that group.

The frequent visitors tend to trim down the things they're interested in doing as they put things onto the list of things they don't like or things they will only do once every few trips. Those guests create a dilemma for Disney because they are more inclined to want to do the most popular attractions multiple times, making it more difficult for the other guests to do them once.

Just look at some of the posts on this board. There are frequent visitors who consider DHS a half day park because all they really want to do is ride TSMM, RNRC, TOT, and Star Tours as many times as possible, and with FP+ it's harder for them to do anything more than once. Then you see first time visitors having trouble trying to figure out how to squeeze in those things plus the movie ride, Little Mermaid, Jedi Training, Disney Junior, Beauty and the Beast, the 2 stunt shows, Animation, Frozen singalong, a few character greetings, and Fantasmic. They really aren't concerned about how long those things have been around or that there aren't more rides.

Disney needs both types of guests to a certain extent. I think they know that some regular guests will stop coming because of FP+, or come less frequently, but they are betting that the attrition in that group will be acceptable. Just reading these boards, for every poster who says they are going to stop coming to Disney, there are several more who say something to the effect of "I have been coming to Disney twice a year for the last 25 years, and my last two visits with FP+ were not as good as the previous 48. If the next 4 or 5 trips aren't any better, I may be looking for a different vacation spot."

 

[Suvadoo]

Actually, it is true of WDW.

Disneyland is an Annual Passholders park, while WDW is not. Through their research they have found that while Disneyland can handle changes, like the Haunted Mansion overlay, WDW guests rebel against it because there is still a much larger percentage of non-return guests who enter WDW and who want to experience the ride 'as it should be seen'. Should WDW move to being a more passholder dominated destination you might see it, but there is little thought that this will happen in the near to distant future.

The reason they won't do overlays at WDW is they would have to close down the ride for an extended period of time and a lot of the WDW guests are 1st time visitors who would be disappointed if the ride they were looking forward to was closed for an overlay.
At WDW, however, most of the changes lately been to replace things or remove things. They really haven't added anything new, just fluffed up the pillows on an old attraction

 

[Laketravis]

And that cues up Joe Walsh and Don Felder for an endless duet loop in my head for the rest of the day.

Better than "If you leave me now, you'll take away the biggest part of me"

 

[elgerber]

Better than "If you leave me now, you'll take away the biggest part of me"

And now that is stuck in mine...

 

[Laketravis]

So today I've been tweaking our 16 day schedule for next month, got it all laid out with ADR's and FP+ and ADD's and IOU's all over the grid, when it struck me....

Epcot days are nothing but a series of TT, Mission Space, Figment. TT, Mission Space, Figment.

HS days are nothing but a series of TSM, RnRC, Star Tours. TSM, RnRC, Star Tours.

MK days are nothing but a series of SM, BTMR, SDMT. SM, BTMR, SDMT.

AK is, well.... not even worth the effort. We'll just get there early, ride EE and leave.

Multiple days of just three ride reservations over and over for the same three of which only one or two are even necessary and I'm looking at this grid and thinking how many thousands of dollars did we spend so that we could map out the same three rides every day for over two weeks and not think how lame it is to have to be focusing on what probably constitutes a total of less than 30 minutes worth of activity each day and how that inordinate amount of focus is stealing away the ability to even think about doing anything else............

And from that perspective I realized just how hard WDW is able to get me to work for them in return for just 3 very quick and over-before-you-know-it experiences.

Such a sneaky Mouse....

 

[surferdave]

Better than "If you leave me now, you'll take away the biggest part of me"

Aha! England Dan and........ wait, I'm getting a sense of vu zha dey......

 

[cakebaker]

So today I've been tweaking our 16 day schedule for next month, got it all laid out with ADR's and FP+ and ADD's and IOU's all over the grid, when it struck me....

Epcot days are nothing but a series of TT, Mission Space, Figment. TT, Mission Space, Figment.

HS days are nothing but a series of TSM, RnRC, Star Tours. TSM, RnRC, Star Tours.

MK days are nothing but a series of SM, BTMR, SDMT. SM, BTMR, SDMT.

AK is, well.... not even worth the effort. We'll just get there early, ride EE and leave.

Multiple days of just three ride reservations over and over for the same three of which only one or two are even necessary and I'm looking at this grid and thinking how many thousands of dollars did we spend so that we could map out the same three rides every day for over two weeks and not think how lame it is to have to be focusing on what probably constitutes a total of less than 30 minutes worth of activity each day and how that inordinate amount of focus is stealing away the ability to even think about doing anything else............

And from that perspective I realized just how hard WDW is able to get me to work for them in return for just 3 very quick and over-before-you-know-it experiences.

Such a sneaky Mouse....

If that was all I was interested in at WDW, I'd be questioning the value of it too!

Parades, fireworks, dining, shows...AK takes us most of the day- we wouldn't miss FOTLK or Finding Nemo on any trip- love those shows and we really enjoy the animal exhibits. It's a full day park for us.

Amazing how many different ways people tour WDW.

 

[magicbob]

But if they do increase the capacity at TSMM and Soarin (and I don't know if there's plans for others), and they have an entire section dedicated to just standby people, and the other is for FP+, you think it will be that long?

I don't know. I would think increasing the capacity and then having a line strictly dedicated to only "stand-by" would alleviate that long standby line. Because now, it's just... a line. You're not waiting for a slew of FP+ people to cut in front of your line.

If that's even what happens. I know this is all speculation at this point.

I wasn't referring to the third track of TSMM being dedicated to FP+ and the other tracks being standby. I was referring to the proposal that rides be ALL FP+ with the only standby option being a "squeeze you in if there's room" approach.

At any rate, I give them credit for committing to address the problem of long lines- one that has existed for a long time and can't be fixed by just adding another ride.

Adding rides is the one way they COULD fix the problem instead of playing shell games with the number of guests wanting to ride that exceeds their capacity.

 

[Laketravis]

If that was all I was interested in at WDW, I'd be questioning the value of it too! Parades, fireworks, dining, shows...AK takes us most of the day- we wouldn't miss FOTLK or Finding Nemo on any trip- love those shows and we really enjoy the animal exhibits. It's a full day park for us. Amazing how many different ways people tour WDW.

You completely missed my point.

 

[wisblue]

If that was all I was interested in at WDW, I'd be questioning the value of it too!

Parades, fireworks, dining, shows...AK takes us most of the day- we wouldn't miss FOTLK or Finding Nemo on any trip- love those shows and we really enjoy the animal exhibits. It's a full day park for us.

Amazing how many different ways people tour WDW.

I sure wouldn't be going to WDW for 16 days (if I would be going at all) if I was only interested in 1-4 rides per park. Even with unlimited FPs, I would get pretty tired of doing the same thing that many times.

This is an extreme example of what I mentioned in my earlier post. Some guests have gone to WDW so many times that they have trimmed down the list of things they really enjoy doing to just a few. And then they wonder where the "magic" went. A couple of new attractions wouldn't change things that much, especially if they aren't exactly the type that you like.

 

[cakebaker]

I sure wouldn't be going to WDW for 16 days (if I would be going at all) if I was only interested in 1-4 rides per park. Even with unlimited FPs, I would get pretty tired of doing the same thing that many times.

This is an extreme example of what I mentioned in my earlier post. Some guests have gone to WDW so many times that they have trimmed down the list of things they really enjoy doing to just a few. And then they wonder where the "magic" went. A couple of new attractions wouldn't change things that much, especially if they aren't exactly the type that you like.

It's just the opposite for us- we keep finding more things to do. 15 trips and there is so much we haven't experienced yet!

 

[momof2n2]

I sure wouldn't be going to WDW for 16 days (if I would be going at all) if I was only interested in 1-4 rides per park. Even with unlimited FPs, I would get pretty tired of doing the same thing that many times. This is an extreme example of what I mentioned in my earlier post. Some guests have gone to WDW so many times that they have trimmed down the list of things they really enjoy doing to just a few. And then they wonder where the "magic" went. A couple of new attractions wouldn't change things that much, especially if they aren't exactly the type that you like.

But it wouldn't hurt.

There are only a handful of rides I truly love & yes, we do like to repeat them. But we do fill up the day with other things because we have lots of kids who are always growing and things seem new to them.

If we didn't have the kids, I'd likely wait a decade or more to go back.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If that was all I was interested in at WDW, I'd be questioning the value of it too!

Parades, fireworks, dining, shows...AK takes us most of the day- we wouldn't miss FOTLK or Finding Nemo on any trip- love those shows and we really enjoy the animal exhibits. It's a full day park for us.

Amazing how many different ways people tour WDW.

I wouldn't extrapolate someone's fp+ reservations to be indicative of all they are interested in at WDW. Many people don't feel there is a value in using fp+ reservations for parades/fireworks/shows. That doesn't mean they are not interested in those experiences, just that they aren't interested in using fp+ for those experiences.

If you aren't choosing to use fp+ for shows/parades/fireworks, then there will be a lot of repetition at parks that aren't MK just because there aren't as many attractions at the other parks.

 

[Laketravis]

I sure wouldn't be going to WDW for 16 days (if I would be going at all) if I was only interested in 1-4 rides per park. Even with unlimited FPs, I would get pretty tired of doing the same thing that many times. This is an extreme example of what I mentioned in my earlier post. Some guests have gone to WDW so many times that they have trimmed down the list of things they really enjoy doing to just a few. And then they wonder where the "magic" went. A couple of new attractions wouldn't change things that much, especially if they aren't exactly the type that you like.

While you actually proved my point, I think you also missed the premise. It's not that those three things are the only things one is interested in but they certainly do require an inordinate amount of prep time for relatively little in return.

Point: There is so much to do that it's ridiculous having to spend so much time planning such a small portion of it. Time is fungible; is it better to stand in line for 20 minutes or to spend 20 minutes planning to avoid the line?

 

[Laketravis]

I wouldn't extrapolate someone's fp+ reservations to be indicative of all they are interested in at WDW. Many people don't feel there is a value in using fp+ reservations for parades/fireworks/shows. That doesn't mean they are not interested in those experiences, just that they aren't interested in using fp+ for those experiences. If you aren't choosing to use fp+ for shows/parades/fireworks, then there will be a lot of repetition at parks that aren't MK just because there aren't as many attractions at the other parks.

Exactly. And that was a large part of the viewpoint I was trying to articulate. By virtue of going thru the motions of planning, one can very easily be consumed by something that constitutes such a small portion of the experience. It's probably a good thing I didn't take that supposition to the next level since it was so easily misinterpreted, but consider what happens when others also fall victim to the same perception - "I went to Disney World and was only able to do the same three things over and over" . Like a PP said, who in the world would want to do that?

I think that is a likely long term possibility - that a WDW visit becomes so structured and pre-planned that a guest considers what they were able to accomplish to be the absolute limit.

In other words, it promotes myopia.

 

[agavegirl1]

I wouldn't extrapolate someone's fp+ reservations to be indicative of all they are interested in at WDW. Many people don't feel there is a value in using fp+ reservations for parades/fireworks/shows. That doesn't mean they are not interested in those experiences, just that they aren't interested in using fp+ for those experiences.

If you aren't choosing to use fp+ for shows/parades/fireworks, then there will be a lot of repetition at parks that aren't MK just because there aren't as many attractions at the other parks.

This. Exactly. I have the same FP+ over and over with slight variations for my 9 day trip. That doesn't mean I won't be riding anything else, it means I have used all the tips and tricks on this message board to plan my park visits. Yes, there are attractions I have no interest in experiencing again and I will skip them but for the most part, I should be able to experience a lot. I don't have a FP+ for TSMM because I will use a different strategy to ride it, if I ride it at all (sorry folks, not a "must-do" for me). However, if I showed up after pre-booking my FP+ in freaking August and counting on riding during the last half hour and that "sign" showed up...I would be pretty upset.

 

[Planogirl]

Welcome to the World known as Disney
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely space.
Plenty of rooms at the World known as Disney
Any time of year (any time of year) you can find empty rooms here.

Last thing I remember (after I tried to ride TSMM), I was
Running for the door
I had to find logic back as I knew it once before
'Relax' said the bean counters,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you are now locked in so you can never leave!'

I bet that someone (anyone) can do way better.

Laketravis, I agree that there is way too much fuss over this notion of three fastpasses. I kind of wish that we could go back to the days of no fastpasses but crowds have increased so that would probably just be a mess.

 

[Laketravis]

Welcome to the World known as Disney
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely space.
Plenty of rooms at the World known as Disney
Any time of year (any time of year) you can find empty rooms here.

Last thing I remember (after I tried to ride TSMM), I was
Running for the door
I had to find logic back as I knew it once before
'Relax' said the bean counters,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you are now locked in so you can never leave!'

Up ahead in the distance, I saw the FP kiosk line...
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim,
I just wanna ride one more time.

The CM stood at the gateway,
But then I heard her iPad chime,
And I was thinking to myself,
That last FP is MINE!



LOL!

 

[OtherScott]

Time is fungible; is it better to stand in line for 20 minutes or to spend 20 minutes planning to avoid the line?

Avoiding.