TSM standby-less test Oct. 6-9

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I agree, it doesn't mean they'll enjoy them. But if Disney doesn't care if they come back or not, then they don't need to care what they thought of it.

Even on a positive note, take the big shows. FoTLK and Nemo are great shows. BaTB at DHS would be another example. But there is only so many times or so often you need to see them. But to a first-timer, they are good. So Disney doesn't have to switch anything out.

I guess the most appropriate question would be "Is Disney primarily building parks for first timers or return guests?" Of course those are numbers only Disney has and they aren't really a sharing of info company when it comes to those kinds of facts.
 
I agree. That is part of my point when I say that limiting some popular attractions to FP+ only will cause the other rides to be flooded with people. People have to go somewhere and if you don't increase capacity you just end up moving the mobs to new lines.

There's also some factor to consider if there aren't people lined up for attractions you've got a lot more peoplo out on the streets and pathways, making the park look and feel much more crowded overall.
 
I guess the most appropriate question would be "Is Disney primarily building parks for first timers or return guests?" Of course those are numbers only Disney has and they aren't really a sharing of info company when it comes to those kinds of facts.

It would be hard for them to come out with a politcally correct answer on either side of that question. Of course if I were wedded to Disney via a DVC contract I know the answer I'd expect.
 
This whole system is just crazy to me.

It really creates a mess for people who want to make a spontaneous trip to one of the parks. If they go ahead with an all ride reservation system then it will lock out anyone who wants to do a spur of the moment trip. You can bet that people will protest loudly if they are not allowed to rude a certain ride because they did not have reservations!

A few years ago my daughter and I went to Universal and we decided to head over to MK for the day. It was late August and the crowds were pretty manageable. We had an awesome day and used the old Fastpass system for two rides. We never encountered any issues at all and we had a great day.

If we had to do this under the new system or whatever future system they are looking at we would have missed many attractions and endured extra long wait times!

It wasn't broke....why are they trying to do this? People go to theme parks and they know they have to wait in lines. A lot of places have done a few things to make it better but in the end you know you have to wait. Why make things so complicated?

If there was no such thing as FP+, I'd be looking at making a spur of the moment trip in a few weeks, for various reasons.

Because of FP+, I won't be.
 

We were there during this trail. The didn't get the FP+ quantity right, they were spinning empty cars while people outside were complaining that they couldn't ride.

The answer to the TSMM problem at hollywood studios is to build more family rides at the park. At California Adventure I was able to walk onto TSMM standby after they opened cars land.
 
We were there during this trail. The didn't get the FP+ quantity right, they were spinning empty cars while people outside were complaining that they couldn't ride.

The answer to the TSMM problem at hollywood studios is to build more family rides at the park. At California Adventure I was able to walk onto TSMM standby after they opened cars land.

We were as well, 3 times in a row, on 2 different days.
 
If there was no such thing as FP+, I'd be looking at making a spur of the moment trip in a few weeks, for various reasons.

Because of FP+, I won't be.
This is what I think ultimately will cause the changes in fast pass plus. Eventually the bottom line will reflect decisions like these and they will feel it in the wallet. It will be a few years but I can see it happening. I know it will affect us as we do last minute trips too. Who wants to go if the full menu of rides aren't available to you.
 
/
vacationer1954 said:
Nothing is guaranteed of course but again the only people that would likely have to wait more in a system like this would be those who used the standby lines in the past.
!

Those who used standby lines in the past = the vast majority of WDW guests.

Even FP commandos use SB lines at various times. I've never had a trip where we *didn't* use stand by lines, regardless of if we got 1 fp/day or 10.
 
I guess the most appropriate question would be "Is Disney primarily building parks for first timers or return guests?" Of course those are numbers only Disney has and they aren't really a sharing of info company when it comes to those kinds of facts.

Working backwards from what they do or don't do can show what their focus is.

Using the example of the shows, when I see the same shows there year after year after year, I conclude that their focus is first-timers, not frequent visitors. My local arts center has to constantly switch shows out to keep themselves in business. How can a company like Disney not have the money to switch them out more often? Because they've decided they don't need or want to. They would rather go to the literal ends of the earth to get new, first-time customers.

That's my theory anyway ;)
 
Planogirl said:
If you get people out of line they have to go somewhere else. I think that other lines is likely.

I think legacy fp did a pretty good job illustrating that....I'm skeptical that it would change.
 
If there was no such thing as FP+, I'd be looking at making a spur of the moment trip in a few weeks, for various reasons.

Because of FP+, I won't be.

Our family too. I had thought about surprising my DS and DH setting everything up for a weekend trip for Christmas in the beginning of Dec. After the surprise test at DHS and the stress of getting FP+s set up, I have decided to look at maybe a beach trip instead.
 
Working backwards from what they do or don't do can show what their focus is.

Using the example of the shows, when I see the same shows there year after year after year, I conclude that their focus is first-timers, not frequent visitors. My local arts center has to constantly switch shows out to keep themselves in business. How can a company like Disney not have the money to switch them out more often? Because they've decided they don't need or want to. They would rather go to the literal ends of the earth to get new, first-time customers.

That's my theory anyway ;)

Interesting theory, however they are building more DVC which would seem to be a focus on return customers. More than likely Disney feels they can be cheap for a while longer and it not affect the bottom line. I personally hope it blows up in there face and they do what universal is doing(building attractions)!
 
Disney wants:
(1) Happy Guests
(2) who spend money

Long waiting lines lead to unhappy guests, and when in line they are not spending money.

Original FP was announced (in a speech by Eisner) to get guests out of line and spending money. It was somewhat successful in meeting those goals, but there are still long lines of non spending guests.

Disney, if their goal is revenue (duh), will completely achieve both of these objectives by instituting FastPass/Reservation only. The complaint of standing in lines will be absolutely gone, and guests will have no choice but to visit revenue-generating locations (in or out of the parks).

So, Disney had a real-world experiment in using FP+ for a popular ride. They would only do this if they needed information on how a FP+ only ride would work in reality.

Their PR mistake, of course, was not announcing it in advance, thus not considering many families who work very hard and save for a rare vacation, and get excited with their kids about TSMM.

Once Disney does go to a reservation-only system, they just need to consider a lot of implementation questions:
- How to distribute FPs throughout the day as rides have available capacity (phone, kiosks)
- How to charge for premium FPs packages (it has already started, folks)
- Whether to institute a small SB line, similar to the single rider lines of today
- How to make it simple. It is now complicated for so many people, to the point of overwhelming

Reservation/FP only, once it gets through the painful transition, will completely eliminate the number one complaint about Disney World (long lines), and will increase revenue. They squeeze guests pretty hard now, but enough people seem to happily spend money on overpriced photo packages, dining packages, and hotel rooms. With reservation only rides there will be happier guests who are even more squeezable.

Soarin', A&E, and TSMM are clear hints as to what's coming. If you think long standby lines are here to stay, you haven't been paying attention.
 
Or they could forget this nonsense and build more attractions to give the crowds someplace to go.
 
:lmao: And my guess is that one of the bean counters made that decision.
I think this is where the focus on first-timers versus many-timers comes into play. A first timer won't know, so they'll try them all, and I think many of them offer some level of enjoyment the first time around. It's all new to them, so that helps. And even getting to sit and rest for 20 min can be enjoyable sometimes.
Maybe I'm naïve but I'd bet that even first-timers won't enjoy certain things. I vaguely remember being a first-timer and thinking 'meh' about certain attractions but I suppose that that would happen under any circumstances. I guess that we're back to first-timers being the ones that matter.

Awwww. All my favorite posters all in a row.

Whoa - that was so OT of me.


I'd love to see how those bands are going to convince my kids that they WOULD really like to watch O Canada & that Eco-nauseating Lion King movie, when what they really want is a third ride on Soarin. (DH works for GM so thankfully I *think* we still have FOTL for that...)
 
I long ago guessed that this I where FP+ was headed.

It is slightly ironic that Folks are saying: folks were mad because they missed an attraction they had planned on seeing, AND Disney keeps attractions/shows the same because they only want new guests.

It is actually the reverse: return guests dislike change. (see: loss of Off-Kilter)First time guests don't know what to expect/don't know what they have missed/don't often plan well enough to see all of WDW.

I mean even in this day and age, lots of folks go to WDW for a day.


Disney made a HUGE whopping mistake when they decided to simply turn away guests that didn't have a FP.

When they should have given folks a one-time freebie - like a free snack room (via a one-time FP), or extra character greets.
 
Or they could forget this nonsense and build more attractions to give the crowds someplace to go.

Now there's an idea I've heard mentioned once or twice before. ;)

I think adding lanes to TSMM & Soarin will help & is cheaper than a new ride. But that's shooting so low. Aspire higher Disney!!!
 
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