TSA pulled my 6 year old for additional screening

[maxiesmom]

***[u-r-l]w-w-w.youtube.com/watch?v=sTVLqTfcJ7g[/u-r-l][/***

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." says you 100 dollar bill.

And how many people would feel safe flying if there was no security?

I also don't see flying as an essential liberty. It is a product I buy, the flight. It is not essential to life.

 

[achinfeet]

Who is Isaac Yeffet?

Folks who bring up Israeli security I don't think consider the SCOPE of what we have here. Israel has FOUR(?) airports. All of which COMBINED handle less passengers than our 20 (or more) busiest airports.

Last but not least, if a full body cavity search was required to fly, *I WOULDN'T FLY*. If you are that against the existing security, don't fly. "But I have to fly for work.", "But I can't get where I need to be quick enough" are common excuses. You know what, too bad. It's still a CHOICE to fly. Back up your words. If you're that offended by going through the body scanners and don't want to submit to a POSSIBLE "hands on" inspection, the solution is simple... don't fly.

Those of us who choose to fly obviously, even if we disagree with the procedures, aren't inconvenienced enough.

Look at Disney... their "bag checks" are nothing but "security theater" also. So why not protest that? Stadiums do bag checks. More "theater". It doesn't stop people from going to Disney or go watch their favorite sports team. The "line" hasn't been crossed for most.

Isaac Yeffet is the former El Al Security Director. He minces no words and you can see his disgust for our security procedures, specifically those that force 3 years to be patted down, children in wheel chairs to be frisked and 95 year old women to have their diapers checked. Let them on the plane, I will take my chances and these are not hollow words. I'm simply not afraid of any of the three fore mentioned individuals and WOULD happily fly with them without such invasive BS.

It goes way beyond whether flying is a CHOICE or not. Sometimes it isn't. Driving to work is a CHOICE as well. Would I be happy if I was sent a ticket from a remote camera every time I exceeded the limit? "But, you broke the law" someone might say? Yes, but at some point I would have no money left and neither would anyone else. BTW, thanks DC for my remote ticket which I did pay without contesting.

And for the record, only a family emergency would get my on a plane at this point. I do make other arrangements, but why should I? Why do I need to embrace the "boiling of the frog" when it comes to personal freedom. It all started with the lovely Patriot Act - Bush passed it and Obama codified it. and it keeps getting worse....too much time to even scratch the surface.

And for the record, If Disney stopped checking bags tomorrow, It would not scare me in the least to enter ANY park or ANY public forum for that matter. It just doesn't bother me to live like I did when I was a child and people were pretty screwed up back then as well - there really are no "good old days" when it comes to the weakness of the human condition - it's all been done before, but we weren't scared all the time and neither am I now. I can live with that uncertainty.

And btw, checking a bag is not the same as a dossier of naked photographs or grabbing the very private areas of both men and women because...well.....because...??? They have breast milk? Because their 3 and holding "lamie"?.

The "boiling of the frog" is occurring everyday as people are conditioned to lose more and more freedom. Did you know the "Supreme" Court said we can be stripped searched when we are arrested for ANY OFFENSE - even a parking ticket?? Go to POLICESTATEUSA.COM if you think this is all BS.

We demonize entire nations and religions in this country all the time, making people more angry, fearful and stressed. We are being conditioned to be afraid of everything and everyone who isn't in bed with the puppet masters pulling all the strings. It's a joke.

 

[achinfeet]

Now that's painful.

I guess I'm heartless because I don't trust any of my fellow travelers in an airport, and I want them checked out.

Your not heartless. It's just the way we look at the picture. The truth is, I trust my fellow citizen and "neighbor" 100 x more than I trust ANY of our so called leaders and would not be afraid to fly with them. Why? We are 100x MORE honest than our so called "leaders" who are calling the shots and making us a bunch of hysterical, stressed out automatons waiting for them to tell us who the NEXT enemy is.

 

[Kenny1113]

I once had my hands swabbed twice in the same line, once before the detector and once after. When I asked, they said it was random selection.

Better that they just swabbed his hands than did a patdown. That would have been more traumatic for him.

I had this happen to me at FLL ON 10/3. (Appears to be around when OP was flying)

They swabbed my hands, DS13 and DS10 hands prior to metal detector and then the machine alerted that I was randomly selected and taken aside to have my hands and purse swabbed. I was not allowed to touch anything prior to being separated. My family could not grab my belongings either.

 

[rbrbnd]

I think it's terrible that people think this kind of heavy handed approach to security is tolerable and "normal". This is "security theater" designed to make it seem like they're actually doing something productive. There are other countries where security agents are better trained and use different procedures. We should definitely speak up and complain whenever these things happen. It's the only way things will change for the better.

Amen!! I've had enough of these useless intrusions in the name of some sort of undocumented and false sense of security

 

[goofy4tink]

Oh and Isaac Yeffet says your NOT more secure - he minces no words that it is just an illusion. Israeli Security = PROACTIVE......American "Secuity" = REACTIVE.

They have an excellent track record - none other than the Huffington Post speaks highly of it - there is NO dispute here.

Bring on those 3 year old's crying for "Lamie" during a pat down or that 95 year CANCER patient in an adult diaper. Sad and pathetic.

If full body cavity searches made you "safer", would you all agree to it? From what I've read on this thread, there may be a majority that would agree. Would you??

My mother flew to Israel on El Al...said she never felt safer anywhere. Why? The armed personnel wandering the airport! Yes, security is different in Israel...and yes, it works. They interview all travelers.,..every one. Can you imagine the out cry here in the US when people are held 'chatting' with a security person? Can you imagine the increase in costs to pay for these super educated personnel? And that means higher fares...someone is going to have to pay for it. And Americans are just not going to be happy about that either. So, they get to be much safer in the air, but they now have to be at the airport 3 hrs prior to departure, for that flight that now costs double what they paid before! Yeah, that's going to happen.

Are we safer because of our current proceedures? Probably not a lot safer, that's for sure. At this point, I want to know what the security is in the baggage/cargo areas. Who is screening down there? Much bigger chance of something being in cargo that shouldn't be.

I just can't get all worked up over the idea of taking off my shoes or not being able to carry full sized shampoo bottles in my carry on bag. I've had to have 'extra' screening twice in all the times I've flown in the past 10 years....when flying a month after 9/11, and then when flying repeatedly over a 12 hr period...back and forth up and down the eastern seaboard (thank you Southwest!). I don't really look at it as a loss of my liberty....truly think that's a bit far fetched. If anyone doesn't want to go through this security 'theatre' they don't have to fly. Drive or take a boat.

A 'dossier of naked photographs'? Seriously. If someone out there is thrilled to see those shots of me from security, they have a serious issue! And 'grabbing of private parts'? Sorry but my 'private 'parts' have never been touched, nor come close to being touched. Then again, I may just be less 'prim and proper' than some.

 

[LadyBeBop]

My mother flew to Israel on El Al...said she never felt safer anywhere. Why? The armed personnel wandering the airport! Yes, security is different in Israel...and yes, it works. They interview all travelers.,..every one.

Probably DD's scariest moment of her life was getting grilled by Israeli security in the Tel Aviv airport.

At the time, she was working for the airlines...free flights, both domestic and international. One weekend (actually over a Tuesday/Wednesday), she and a friend flew from Cincinnati to Tel Aviv. Just for the heck of it (and to scope the new airplanes flying to Israel). Well, coming home, she got one whale of a grilling. After all, who would fly round trip from America to Israel and back home to America in less than 24 hours? Without luggage.

 

[CPT Tripss]

My mother flew to Israel on El Al...said she never felt safer anywhere. Why? The armed personnel wandering the airport! Yes, security is different in Israel...and yes, it works. They interview all travelers.,..every one. Can you imagine the out cry here in the US when people are held 'chatting' with a security person? Can you imagine the increase in costs to pay for these super educated personnel? And that means higher fares...someone is going to have to pay for it. And Americans are just not going to be happy about that either. So, they get to be much safer in the air, but they now have to be at the airport 3 hrs prior to departure, for that flight that now costs double what they paid before! Yeah, that's going to happen.

Are we safer because of our current proceedures? Probably not a lot safer, that's for sure. At this point, I want to know what the security is in the baggage/cargo areas. Who is screening down there? Much bigger chance of something being in cargo that shouldn't be.

I just can't get all worked up over the idea of taking off my shoes or not being able to carry full sized shampoo bottles in my carry on bag. I've had to have 'extra' screening twice in all the times I've flown in the past 10 years....when flying a month after 9/11, and then when flying repeatedly over a 12 hr period...back and forth up and down the eastern seaboard (thank you Southwest!). I don't really look at it as a loss of my liberty....truly think that's a bit far fetched. If anyone doesn't want to go through this security 'theatre' they don't have to fly. Drive or take a boat.

A 'dossier of naked photographs'? Seriously. If someone out there is thrilled to see those shots of me from security, they have a serious issue! And 'grabbing of private parts'? Sorry but my 'private 'parts' have never been touched, nor come close to being touched. Then again, I may just be less 'prim and proper' than some.

I too have been in places places with armed people, official government people, all around. There were times I did not particularly safe and protected by their presence.

As for the nonsense about driving or boating . . .
Flying is more than a privilege, it is your right.

Under Contract:
When you make a lawful purchase of an airline ticket, it is your property. It
represents your right to receive a service from the airline; and the airline’s
corresponding duty to provide that service to you, subject to the terms of the
contract between you and the airline.

Under Statute:
"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the
navigable airspace." 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2)


In the Constitution:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Common Law:
"The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe
its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a
natural right." Schactman v. Dulles, 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

Case Law:
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be
deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment."
Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

 

[maxiesmom]

Flying is not a right. The right to travel has to do with being allowed to leave your home and travel to other places. It is not about having the right to get on an aircraft. The mode of transportation is not the right, being able to travel is.

 

[Tigger1]

When I was screened I thought they were just putting Pixie dust on my hands.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I too have been in places places with armed people, official government people, all around. There were times I did not particularly safe and protected by their presence.

As for the nonsense about driving or boating . . .
Flying is more than a privilege, it is your right.

Sorry Tripps, you have the right to travel, flying like driving is a privilege not a right and it done under certain government restrictions.

Under Contract:
When you make a lawful purchase of an airline ticket, it is your property. It
represents your right to receive a service from the airline; and the airline’s
corresponding duty to provide that service to you, subject to the terms of the
contract between you and the airline.

please not above....under terms of contract....restrictions, etc. You do not the right to travel under your terms!


Under Statute:
"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the
navigable airspace." 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2)


In the Constitution:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Pubic right or individual right and again its a privilege granted under government laws.

Common Law:
"The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe
its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a
natural right." Schactman v. Dulles, 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

Again under restrictions and government laws.

Case Law:
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be
deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment."
Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

The individual has the *RIGHT TO TRAVEL*, however flying is not part of that right............you can travel, but you do not have the privilege to fly under your own terms.

AKK

 

[sam_gordon]

Let's see..

As for the nonsense about driving or boating . . .
Flying is more than a privilege, it is your right.

Under Contract:
When you make a lawful purchase of an airline ticket, it is your property. It
represents your right to receive a service from the airline; and the airline’s
corresponding duty to provide that service to you, subject to the terms of the contract between you and the airline.

Regarding the bolded... from Delta's Contract of Carriage...

Delta may refuse to transport any passenger, and may remove any passenger from its aircraft
at any time, for any of the following reasons:...

A) Government Request or Regulations
Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulations, directives, or
instructions
B) Search of Passenger or Property
When a passenger refuses to permit search of his person or property for explosives, weapons,
dangerous materials, or other prohibited items.
C) Proof of Identity
When a passenger refuses on request to produce positive identification

It sure sounds like submitting to the TSA search is included there. I'm assuming other airlines have similar wording. Feel free to research on your own.

Under Statute:
"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the
navigable airspace." 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2)

Does that refer to flying in a commercial plane or flying in an owned, leased, or rented plane (none of which are subject to TSA searches that I know of)?

In the Constitution:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Common Law:
"The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe
its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a
natural right." Schactman v. Dulles, 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

Case Law:
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be
deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment."
Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

As mentioned, "travel" doesn't always equal "flying".

It's too bad we don't have a system in place where people who think their rights are being abridged can present their argument to a specially trained person (or group of person) who are knowledgeable in the law and who can make a legally binding decision.

 

[goofy4tink]

I too have been in places places with armed people, official government people, all around. There were times I did not particularly safe and protected by their presence.

As for the nonsense about driving or boating . . .
Flying is more than a privilege, it is your right.

Under Contract:
When you make a lawful purchase of an airline ticket, it is your property. It
represents your right to receive a service from the airline; and the airline’s
corresponding duty to provide that service to you, subject to the terms of the
contract between you and the airline.

Under Statute:
"A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the
navigable airspace." 49 US Code-Section 40103 (2)


In the Constitution:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Common Law:
"The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe
its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a
natural right." Schactman v. Dulles, 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

Case Law:
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be
deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment."
Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

Others have responded with researched 'facts'...so I'm not going to repeat those. BUT.....no one, not one single person, has the 'right' to opt out of security proceedures. If you don't want to go through those proceedures, then don't fly. And security is what we're talking about here, not flight.

As I've said before, I just can't get all worked up over something so small. I have no issue taking off my shoes, or emptying stuff into a bin. I certainly have no issue going through any of the screeners....as I said, if someone is getting their jollies looking at my photo, more power to 'em. So, for me.....it's a non-issue. Others may have an issue....so, it is up to them to decide if it's a big enough issue to avoid flying.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Let's see..
Regarding the bolded... from Delta's Contract of Carriage...

It sure sounds like submitting to the TSA search is included there. I'm assuming other airlines have similar wording. Feel free to research on your own.
Does that refer to flying in a commercial plane or flying in an owned, leased, or rented plane (none of which are subject to TSA searches that I know of)?

As mentioned, "travel" doesn't always equal "flying".

True. Americans have the right to parachute, or hangglide, or if someone would get with the program (pun intended) and mass-market the flying cars The Jetsons 'promised' us by now... plenty of ways to travel through airspace without using a commercial airline. Human cannonball. Only good for short trips. Catapult.

It's too bad we don't have a system in place where people who think their rights are being abridged can present their argument to a specially trained person (or group of person) who are knowledgeable in the law and who can make a legally binding decision.

I see what you did there

 

[achinfeet]

Message # 9 - no pixie dust - sorry

 

[achinfeet]

Message # 10 - no pixie dust - sorry

 

[achinfeet]

It's too bad we don't have a system in place where people who think their rights are being abridged can present their argument to a specially trained person (or group of person) who are knowledgeable in the law and who can make a legally binding decision.

I think we all agree with this statement, especially those unhappy, injured or distressed by the TSA: http://tsascandals.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/tsa-lawsuits-legal-cases/

 

[Jkpark]

I stopped reading halfway but my daughter (8 both times) has been selected for additional screening and both times they swabbed me instead telling me they don't swab kids so I get to do it for her. Surprised by so many reports of kids being swabbed. Don't think I would care. Just so different than my experience to date.

 

[Dubb]

Basically if you have nothing to hide, then you should have no problem in being tested.

Horrible philosophy. Why do people still parrot this?

 

[sam_gordon]

I think we all agree with this statement, especially those unhappy, injured or distressed by the TSA: http://tsascandals.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/tsa-lawsuits-legal-cases/

I think you missed the point. Have the TSA searches been declared illegal or a violation of constitutional rights? Until they do, it's not a violation of your rights, regardless of what you (or some nameless blog) think.