TSA mess and the police

[skater]

I'll answer, too. I fly at least 30 times per year - sometimes closer to 50. I will have no problem with the scanners. After all, 100 scans will expose me to less radiation than a single flight across the country.

Okay.

 

[skater]

Personally, after reading a little internet stuff, I'm not so sure about the radiation. I'd like to see some more unbiased studies before I submit myself to it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How other folks feel about having their bodies touched is irrelevant and is an invalid measure on the appropriateness of the enhanced pat down.

I'm not okay with even the smallest chance that I will have to submit to such an act (especially right now as a nursing mother!) just for the privilege of flying so that you will feel safer knowing that an undertrained agent was able to accurately determine that it was only a bra, underwire, nursing pads and breast tissue and then OOPS, breast milk.

I'm not okay with men determining that women should be okay with this.

I'm not okay with other women telling me it isn't a big deal and just the sensationalized media talking.

To that I say--you are just falling for the sensationalized propaganda of the TSA that claims they are keeping you safe with such measures. There is truth in humor and that is what makes the other thread, sadly, funny.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Personally, after reading a little internet stuff, I'm not so sure about the radiation. I'd like to see some more unbiased studies before I submit myself to it.

It has been stated that even on the shortest flights--you are exposed to much more radiation than walking through the scanners even one time.

Not up on my radiation studies--but I do know that we are exposed to radiation daily. Often we equate it with too many x-rays and that "radiation" is such a naughty term and we must avoid it. But we can't. We can minimize our exposure...but as far as I have read on the subject, the exposure in the scanner is insignificant compared to the rest of our travel day.

Kind of like throwing a protest b/c Coca Cola increased their 200 calorie servings to 202 calories.

It is making a mountain out of a mole hill from a physical health perspective on this topic.

 

[skater]

It has been stated that even on the shortest flights--you are exposed to much more radiation than walking through the scanners even one time.

Not up on my radiation studies--but I do know that we are exposed to radiation daily. Often we equate it with too many x-rays and that "radiation" is such a naughty term and we must avoid it. But we can't. We can minimize our exposure...but as far as I have read on the subject, the exposure in the scanner is insignificant compared to the rest of our travel day.

Kind of like throwing a protest b/c Coca Cola increased their 200 calorie servings to 202 calories.

It is making a mountain out of a mole hill from a physical health perspective on this topic.

Yes, its been stated. But there are a lot of other statements out there too. I'm just not so sure after researching it a little bit . I don't believe anything the tsa is putting out there about radiation (too much of a vested interest) - just like I wouldn't believe anything put out there by the "other side." Its really hard to get to the truth, but there are a lot of conflicting opinions.

 

[Tricia1972]

Why would you think that ?

Though I am quoting you, this isn't against you. I just am answering this because this struck me a few days ago when I read these two posts.

jsmith posts this, many trips with no concerns of security.

this entire thread-and the tempest in the teapot that it is creating-just emphasis how willing americans are to be manipulated by the mainstream media. Yes the situation in San Diego seems out of hand-but it also appears that the Harbor Police are contributing to that as well.
We are a family who fly ALOT-my husband an i work in the defense industry-both our sons are in graduate programs that do defense related research. As a family-since the first of November we have taken 18 air trips-these involved passing thru airport security in-Detroit, Philadelphia, Chicago, Denver, Las Vegas,Colorado Springs, and Huntsville ( Colorado Springs and Huntsville are smaller airports which do not have scanners) and layovers in Dallas and Houston that did not involve security screenings. In 18 trips -my younger son was put thur the scanner in Denver 1 time-he said the machine resemebled an MRI-and i witnessed one pat down i would consider intrusive. None of the other screenings have been signifgantly more intense that what we have experienced entering sporting events, concert venues or our work places. Yes i think there are areas where things are out of hand or offensive-it is a national transportation crisis-no its not-and for those of you who seem thing think its going to hit the airlines bottome line-there are a record number of seats booked for the holiday travel season-so if thats going to happen-its not going to be this month.
this of course has been our personal experience-your mileage may vary.

Another poster a few posts downthread tells them that they've willingly given up their rights, but nobody seemed to hear or care that this person travels a lot with no issues.


The very next post was this...

I'm a little late to the party here, but wanted to throw in my experience. I recently had to take 2 business trips, one to Orlando and one to Vegas. On the way back from Orlando I went through the scanner and it went off, I had no belt on, no change, jewelry or anything else that I can think of that would set it off. Then I realized that it could be the underwire in my bra. I asked if I could go take it off and then go back through, they told me no I had to get the pat down. Fine whatever, never had one before didn't think it would be a big deal. Well needless to say I really think the TSA agent should have bought me dinner first. It was a little overboard. I think what was most embarassing was the fact that they do it right out in the open in front of everyone. I know I still have my clothes and everything on, but I think it would be a little more appropriate for them to take you behind a screen or something.

I understand the need for safety when flying and I don't really have a problem with the scanners, but there has got to be a better way than these pat downs.

The post after that ignored the person who traveled with no issue and offered sympathy for this person.

I am not saying that kwelch doesn't deserve sympathy, but it does seem to be that the sensational stories are quoted and high-fived with "See?!?!" as the reaction. The " 'eh, nothing happened" stories are largely ignored.

It's not bad, it just struck me as funny when I read the thread.

 

[hambirg]

Why do you give stories like this more credence than the stories of all the people who have been through this and didn't care or feel violated in any way?

Because that is how our system works! Just because the majority of guys on death row are guilty doesn't mean that everyone doesn't deserve due process. . .or that there haven't been innocent men that have been unjustly convicted. Holy cow! So if most people think it's ok for blacks to ride on the back of the bus and go to inferior, segregated schools. . .then it's ok? I thought we were past this kind of crap! I don't give a rats *ss if "most people" think it's ok. The truth if it makes anybody feel violated. . .than that is one too many.

Let me ask you this. . .if the cops raided your home in the middle of the night and found nothing. . .and you thought . . eh. . no big deal. . I didn't get put out too much. Does that make it right?

 

[hambirg]

Though I am quoting you, this isn't against you. I just am answering this because this struck me a few days ago when I read these two posts.

jsmith posts this, many trips with no concerns of security.



Another poster a few posts downthread tells them that they've willingly given up their rights, but nobody seemed to hear or care that this person travels a lot with no issues.


The very next post was this...


The post after that ignored the person who traveled with no issue and offered sympathy for this person.

I am not saying that kwelch doesn't deserve sympathy, but it does seem to be that the sensational stories are quoted and high-fived with "See?!?!" as the reaction. The " 'eh, nothing happened" stories are largely ignored.

It's not bad, it just struck me as funny when I read the thread.

I haven't found what you are finding. This is a really good friend of mine. Btw. . he's a op for the navy. .. he has passed numerous background checks and has the highest level of security clearance for his job. He works at the Pentagon.

I fly pretty often. Like at least once a month. Is there any need for me to be treated the same as someone who has never been on a plane before in the US? Being random just for the sake of being random is stupid. I was selected three times in one month for the extra search. Why? Because I came up in the random selection. Two of those times the guy searching ran his hand up my leg and over my *****. Seriously. At that point the crotch check was suppose to be a back of the hand thing. The second guy was sort of odd about it as he stopped and stared up and me when he realized what he did.....while not moving his hand. The same guy missed a package of cough drops and a pack of gum I forgot to remove before going through the line from my back pocket. Fools.

We are spending something like 700 million for a couple of years in a row for these dumb scanners, that as I mentioned will not find a bomb that is swallowed or keistered. How many well trained TSA agents (no offense to the TSA folks now as I am sure there are some smart ones, but the folks that I run across are cashier material, I do not mean more of them) can we hired for that money?

I am going to do my best to avoid flying if at all possible. Two reasons for that, the first is I think the TSA is going overboard and have crossed the line of violating civil liberties and two is they have proven to me now that the organizations is run by idiots who have no idea what they are doing. I do not feel safe with those fools taking care of things.

 

[maxiesmom]

There are soooo many posts on the Disboard saying the same thing: The scans can't catch everything, so they are useless. So tell me, what security method is out there that is 100% foolproof?

We can only do what we think is the best we can do, at that time. Hopefully they will find a new, less touchie feelie way of checking for bombs and other contraband. But if that is what is the best method for now, that is what we have to deal with. Nothing will catch every bad guy 100% of the time.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

How other folks feel about having their bodies touched is irrelevant and is an invalid measure on the appropriateness of the enhanced pat down.

I'm not okay with even the smallest chance that I will have to submit to such an act (especially right now as a nursing mother!) just for the privilege of flying so that you will feel safer knowing that an undertrained agent was able to accurately determine that it was only a bra, underwire, nursing pads and breast tissue and then OOPS, breast milk.

I'm not okay with men determining that women should be okay with this.

I'm not okay with other women telling me it isn't a big deal and just the sensationalized media talking.

To that I say--you are just falling for the sensationalized propaganda of the TSA that claims they are keeping you safe with such measures. There is truth in humor and that is what makes the other thread, sadly, funny.

And it is not okay that your personal hang-ups drive change that effects everyone else, right?

 

[Lionqueen2]

I haven't found what you are finding. This is a really good friend of mine. Btw. . he's a op for the navy. .. he has passed numerous background checks and has the highest level of security clearance for his job. He works at the Pentagon.

I fly pretty often. Like at least once a month. Is there any need for me to be treated the same as someone who has never been on a plane before in the US? Being random just for the sake of being random is stupid. I was selected three times in one month for the extra search. Why? Because I came up in the random selection. Two of those times the guy searching ran his hand up my leg and over my *****. Seriously. At that point the crotch check was suppose to be a back of the hand thing. The second guy was sort of odd about it as he stopped and stared up and me when he realized what he did.....while not moving his hand. The same guy missed a package of cough drops and a pack of gum I forgot to remove before going through the line from my back pocket. Fools.

We are spending something like 700 million for a couple of years in a row for these dumb scanners, that as I mentioned will not find a bomb that is swallowed or keistered. How many well trained TSA agents (no offense to the TSA folks now as I am sure there are some smart ones, but the folks that I run across are cashier material, I do not mean more of them) can we hired for that money?

I am going to do my best to avoid flying if at all possible. Two reasons for that, the first is I think the TSA is going overboard and have crossed the line of violating civil liberties and two is they have proven to me now that the organizations is run by idiots who have no idea what they are doing. I do not feel safe with those fools taking care of things.

I agree.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Yes, its been stated. But there are a lot of other statements out there too. I'm just not so sure after researching it a little bit . I don't believe anything the tsa is putting out there about radiation (too much of a vested interest) - just like I wouldn't believe anything put out there by the "other side." Its really hard to get to the truth, but there are a lot of conflicting opinions.

Don't believe the TSA - believe the various college's and radiological institutes that have weighed in on the subject. I don't know of a single credible source that has contradicted the information offered by the TSA. A few are "suspicious", as you seem to be, but without any data to back up their suspicions.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

... The truth if it makes anybody feel violated. . .than that is one too many...

Okay - I feel violated when I read this thread. Should we shut it down?

 

[eliza61]

Just curious (respectfully of course - I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around here lately ), if scanners end up being used for every traveler instead of randomly, would you have a problem going through one 2-3 times a month? Why or why not?

Hey skater,
Please don't walk around on eggshells 'cause of me. I'm very open and welcome any questions no matter what position. I love talking!!

Anyway, I don't think I'll have much of an issue with it. In order to answer the why Ihave to give you a bit of my background.

first, I'm a scientist. I've worked in petrolelum and nuclear facilities pretty much the last 30 years. I've done a lot of reading on these machines, the chances of me getting cancer from exposure is pretty much the same chance of me getting cancer from the airplane itself. sure without a doubt it can happen but I have to weigh the risk and benefits. I probably get more exposure when I visit an oil refinery or the Limerick nuclear facilities.

second, I really have no problem with total strangers seeing fuzzy pictures of me. maybe it's the european in me (in laws are portugese) but I just don't get the uproar. I totally acknowledge there are some creepy tsa agents but then there are creeps every where. stop painting (not you but the general public) this guys as Jack the ripper just waiting to get their hands on my overweight body.

third. I totally admit that I love to travel and I don't think people are guaranteed the "right" to flying according to their "rules". My stance is really pretty simple, don't like the scanners, don't go through them. I also admit to being a impatient critter, let's see 16 hours drive to wdw or a 2 hour flight. Nope sorry 2 hour flight will win every time for me, throw in a super cheap airfare (southwest or spirit) and I'll go through 10 scanners.

There are a few things I do wish the TSA would do.


1) warning signs. I think there should be labels every where.
2) flexibilty. there needs to be put in place some contingency plans so people who may be disabled, or other issues can be checked quickly and without drama.
3) better training. I agree tsa agents need better training but we also get what we pay for. tsa agents here in philly are paid the high 20's a year maybe the low 30's. My good friend who is a retired nyc cop makes more working security at Yankee stadium.

Lastly, I'm the daughter of a NYC cop. he use to have a saying, the minute you come up with a new alarm the crooks are out there coming up with a way to go around it. there is no such thing as total security all we can do is try to stay 1 step ahead of the bad guy. If scanners help do that, so be it.

 

[eliza61]

Yes - I have a very strong faith - in many things.. It has become an increasingly important (actually crucial) part of my daily life - something that I thank God for every single night.. Without faith, there's nothing..

I wish you the best in your business and pleasure travels - no matter how this issue turns out..

Oh I have great faith in GOD. John P. Public, not so much. I'm like the sign you see in stores above the dollar bill.

"In God we Trust, all others pay cash". I trust God to do the right thing implicitedly, I trust America to do the right thing..... not so much.

Thanks for the well wishes, Have a happy Thanksgiving.

 

[bicker]

This is critical, and you've really highlighted the gross Entitlement Mentality inherent in the insistence on being able to take photographs of the security screening area.

It isn't anything of the sort. Photography is not prohibited by TSA.

It doesn't have to be prohibited by the TSA, for there to be entitlement mentality: Any airport has the unassailable right to prohibit photography in any part of the airport. And as far as we know, there is no rule prohibiting a TSA supervisor from prohibiting photography in any screening area. There is no entitlement to take photographs; all that is necessary to prohibit it is a posted sign. Airports are a generally public accommodations - not a public facility. The presumption that because the TSA doesn't prohibit photography it means one is entitled to take photographs there regardless of other sources of prohibition is indeed Entitlement Mentality.

 

[skater]

Hey skater,
Please don't walk around on eggshells 'cause of me. I'm very open and welcome any questions no matter what position. I love talking!!

Anyway, I don't think I'll have much of an issue with it. In order to answer the why Ihave to give you a bit of my background.

first, I'm a scientist. I've worked in petrolelum and nuclear facilities pretty much the last 30 years. I've done a lot of reading on these machines, the chances of me getting cancer from exposure is pretty much the same chance of me getting cancer from the airplane itself. sure without a doubt it can happen but I have to weigh the risk and benefits. I probably get more exposure when I visit an oil refinery or the Limerick nuclear facilities.

second, I really have no problem with total strangers seeing fuzzy pictures of me. maybe it's the european in me (in laws are portugese) but I just don't get the uproar. I totally acknowledge there are some creepy tsa agents but then there are creeps every where. stop painting (not you but the general public) this guys as Jack the ripper just waiting to get their hands on my overweight body.

third. I totally admit that I love to travel and I don't think people are guaranteed the "right" to flying according to their "rules". My stance is really pretty simple, don't like the scanners, don't go through them. I also admit to being a impatient critter, let's see 16 hours drive to wdw or a 2 hour flight. Nope sorry 2 hour flight will win every time for me, throw in a super cheap airfare (southwest or spirit) and I'll go through 10 scanners.

There are a few things I do wish the TSA would do.


1) warning signs. I think there should be labels every where.
2) flexibilty. there needs to be put in place some contingency plans so people who may be disabled, or other issues can be checked quickly and without drama.
3) better training. I agree tsa agents need better training but we also get what we pay for. tsa agents here in philly are paid the high 20's a year maybe the low 30's. My good friend who is a retired nyc cop makes more working security at Yankee stadium.

Lastly, I'm the daughter of a NYC cop. he use to have a saying, the minute you come up with a new alarm the crooks are out there coming up with a way to go around it. there is no such thing as total security all we can do is try to stay 1 step ahead of the bad guy. If scanners help do that, so be it.

Fair enough. Great answer and great points.

I don't think that the scanners are really keeping us one step ahead of the bad guy, but different opinions are what make people interesting . I am cautious about how many dental x-rays we receive and so naturally, feel cautious about the scanners. I will read everything I have time to in the next few weeks about the radiation - education is important to me .

I'm guessing I will feel violated if I'm chosen for the additional screening and I'm imagining that I will feel even more upset if my daughter is chosen. Since I already have a trip planned, there's not much I can do about it except educate myself and prepare my daughter. I still think its constitutionally wrong, but I understand that not everybody interprets it that way. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Thanks for your educated adn respectful response.

 

[bicker]

So now my potentially mandated search has now crossed the line.

No. It has crossed your line. Not "the" line. Imposing one's own personal preferences on society as a whole is indefensible.

 

[bicker]

I'm glad to see that the whole opt-out silliness fell flat. It is heartening to see that so few people were snowed by the rampant propaganda the critics of the policy had been piling on. Hopefully, people will continue to ignore the extremists trying to foster fear, uncertainty and doubt to try to make it such that their personal preference trumps reasonable consideration of the issue.

Back to cooking. Seeyas in a few days.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Happy Thanksgiving!

I might not agree with everyone but I am grateful my family and I live in a place and time we can all voice our opinions about anything and everything

This thread is all about that!