TSA "FREEZE" Drill

[Tonka's Skipper]

This is an interesting statement. What are your credentials, AKK?

35 years in the martitime industry.the last 10 or so involved with all transportation secruity.

It seems the NY Times is a little more than an isolated blog who is out to start trouble. Since they are included, as well as other respected publications, in reporting TSA behaviors, I would say these sort of generalized statements fail to make your case, AKK.

The times is far from a A rated paper any more when you count the number of reporters who have admited making up stories and facts and been fired or criminally charged. Granted they still have the name and are well read in the cities.but not much more then that. Enough detail?
I never said there weren't a few bad apples/incidents is 34,000 in the tsa alone, but what a find interested the blogs and the Times never come back and admit it when the real fact do come out and shows there *TAKE* on the problem was reproted wrong!. Beleive me most american dont beleive the main stream press for much of anything anymore.,

There are more than a few "bad apples".

Sorry please provide your proof now? .....I can count about 14 stories repeorted this year ........not alot.and that doesnt count the ones where the agents were shown to have acted correctly after a investigation.........Only a few.*bad Apples*
Personal note:
I can understand the reason for the "freeze drill", as the TSA has let people through with items that should have been caught, and it is easier to inconvenience those in the area instead of rescreening the whole airport. That said, I think they take it way too seriously. Practice is to ingrain immediate actions, so they are performed without thought, but forcing someone not to "fidget" is just plain silly.

I I have to agree on this one.to try and make peole freze is a bit over the top.this is the first I have hread of this.I intend to read up a bit

In addition, I have come to realize that the role of the TSA is to provide the appearance of security, with the ancillary benefit of being able to be more vigilant to those security measures required before September 2001. Actually delivering security against terrorist attack would require different processes and procedures, which are well documented and tested in other parts of the world, but are not the focus of the TSA.

and YOUR credentials to say that? What happens directly with the public is a very small part of the overall secruity role of the TSA and other groups.....

There has not been a terrorist attack on an airline originating from the United States since September 2001; however, many of the more draconian requirements have been mandated years after the initial engagement. In addition, these enhanced requirements were not based on any actionable intelligence or imminent threat to airline safety; rather, they were implemented due to actions of terrorists on aircraft, which originated outside of our nation. To that end and based on the lack of evidence suggesting these enhancements and the TSA are at all effective, it stands to reason that we should be relaxing security and instead focusing our money and attention toward those efforts that would be effective in stemming the tide of a future terrorist attack.

again your proof?.credentials to say that?........Maybe just maybe the fact we have the secruity we have may have forcesd the terroriest to not weven try and take down a plane. Not to mention you have no idea if there has been any planned attacks or if TSA, FBI, CIA etc have stopped it early on...How ever I will tell you are far off the mark in this statement.

These are my thoughts. I don't consider myself anti-security or anti-TSA, but the empirical evidence of the agency's lack of

You are entitled to have your opinion.

 

[CPT Tripss]

According to the TSA blog, 381 of their employees have been terminated for theft. They have not published how many more have resigned rather than be terminated. We have not counted the number of bad apples that were fired or resigned for other types of criminal behavior, nor have we counted the any of the TSA employees that were suspended and returned to work based upon illegal or inappropriate activities. Then there are those TSA employees that got away with their misdeeds. Putting thes together gets us to a number of "bad apples" well in excess of 381 - maybe 10 times as many.

You cite 34,000 TSA employees, 0.1% (what you suggest is the "number of bad apples") of that would only be 34 . . . you significantly underestimate the "bad apples."

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

According to the TSA blog, 381 of their employees have been terminated for theft. They have not published how many more have resigned rather than be terminated. We have not counted the number of bad apples that were fired or resigned for other types of criminal behavior, nor have we counted the any of the TSA employees that were suspended and returned to work based upon illegal or inappropriate activities. Then there are those TSA employees that got away with their misdeeds. Putting thes together gets us to a number of "bad apples" well in excess of 381 - maybe 10 times as many.

You cite 34,000 TSA employees, 0.1% (what you suggest is the "number of bad apples") of that would only be 34 . . . you significantly underestimate the "bad apples."

You are talking about years.........not last year like I was...........TSA started 11 years ago....381 divided by 11 is 34 or .1%................

bad behavor?....not caught?? There maybe a few....but as usuall you are condmeming people without any knowledge additional problems...

Still not alot of problem bad apples............certainly no reason to call the TSA folks names as you have in past posts.

In any case all my other facts stand......and most folk here know your vendeta againist the TSA and don't pay any attention any more.!

I have proved my point........


AKK

 

[CPT Tripss]

TSA does have high turnover. But not close to the 100% annual you need to get to your numbers.

The theft problem along with the other abuses has gotten so bad that legislators on both sides of the aisle in DC are calling for investigations. About the only bipartisan activity in that entire body.

ABC found a thief in 10 trials, do you really believe that the 381 thieves discovered and fired are the only crooks out there in TSA?

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

TSA does have high turnover. But not close to the 100% annual you need to get to your numbers.

The theft problem along with the other abuses has gotten so bad that legislators on both sides of the aisle in DC are calling for investigations. About the only bipartisan activity in that entire body.

ABC found a thief in 10 trials, do you really believe that the 381 thieves discovered and fired are the only crooks out there in TSA?

Turnover..???.....it was 381 people over 11 years........that 34 a year....simple math.

Ho come on..........even you can't believe the congress stuff................a few congressman and 1 senator called for investigations, all mugging for camera time!...............a year ago..................lets see now................gee...... 1 set of 2 hearings,those crooks in congress smiling for all the camera time they could get.......TSA came in and proved thier methods and systems......how many changes were reqiured??...............NONE!..........gee......maybe the congress people were being elected?......trying to get votes by making issues and then not doing anything..YES!


You keep saying things as so bad, yet the figures....even by your figures...its not Bad. Is there some bad apples...yes....but not anywhere near the amount that you keep saying it is..........lets be honest tripp, if it were,the whole US traveling public would be yelling.............yet we only keep hearing a select few that keep rattling off the same statments over and over,thinking if they do people may beleive them.....I remember another group in the 1930's/1940's that tryed that!

I want my family as safe as possible and that is what is happening now........with time it will get better........TSA is always making changes and hopefully is reducing the thiefs, I cant say that for sure as I don't have the yearly figures.....but for now its the best we have.

Qiute frankly I think we all would be doing the nation a better service is we looked harder at the thiefs in and corruption happening in Congress!

AKK

 

[dis-happy]

wont to do

 

[goofy4tink]

While I do understand that the TSA has employees that are less than honest, I think it's unfair to tarnish an entire group of people because of some less than honest employees. Understand, I am sure there are plenty of instances of theft out there....and some of it is due to passenger stupidity...not trying to make excuses, but really??? I stood, at the end of the conveyor belt at security at Logan 10 days ago. My dh was talking to some lady, who was just standing there, prior to going through the scanner. Seems she decided, after putting her Coach bag on the belt, that she wanted a pat down, not go through the scanner. She must have been standing there for about 5 mins....just stood there. Finally, a TSA person asked her what she was waiting for. She then told them she refused to go through the scanner and wanted a pat down!!! Not sure why she didn't feel the need to speak up rather than just stand there, telling people to go ahead of her. And then she started complaining that her Coach bag had done through without her!!! And I have to say, I never saw it. But then again, she had been standing there for a bit before I went through the scanner. Why in heaven's name would someone be stupid enough to put their belongings on the conveyor belt if they weren't going along with it??? Don't know if they ever found the bag...but that doesn't mean it was a TSA employee, it could easily have been another passenger!!!

But, I have to say that I had the nicest TSA people, on both ends of my trip...San Diego and Boston. I have to assume that the vast majority of them are honest people.

So, can we please stop casting aspersions on an entire group of people based on a small percentage of the group???

 

[CPT Tripss]

snip
.....I remember another group in the 1930's/1940's that tryed that!
snip

I want my family as safe as possible and that is what is happening now........with time it will get better........TSA is always making changes and hopefully is reducing the thiefs, I cant say that for sure as I don't have the yearly figures.....but for now its the best we have.

snip

AKK

Exactly what are you asserting in the part that I bolded? If it's what I suspect, it's an interesting way to defend meembers of a government agency that inspects our ID papers before permitting us to travel domestically.

Sure, we all want to be safe . . . life is risky and so is freedom.

We really have no idea how many bad apples are out there in TSA uniforms. TSA only recently released any firing figures and that was in response to getting stung by the media.

Also, remember that TSA refused to testify before congressional committees when they ddidn't like the topic or some of the other witnesses.

 

[CPT Tripss]

While I do understand that the TSA has employees that are less than honest, I think it's unfair to tarnish an entire group of people because of some less than honest employees. Understand, I am sure there are plenty of instances of theft out there....and some of it is due to passenger stupidity...not trying to make excuses, but really??? I stood, at the end of the conveyor belt at security at Logan 10 days ago. My dh was talking to some lady, who was just standing there, prior to going through the scanner. Seems she decided, after putting her Coach bag on the belt, that she wanted a pat down, not go through the scanner. She must have been standing there for about 5 mins....just stood there. Finally, a TSA person asked her what she was waiting for. She then told them she refused to go through the scanner and wanted a pat down!!! Not sure why she didn't feel the need to speak up rather than just stand there, telling people to go ahead of her. And then she started complaining that her Coach bag had done through without her!!! And I have to say, I never saw it. But then again, she had been standing there for a bit before I went through the scanner. Why in heaven's name would someone be stupid enough to put their belongings on the conveyor belt if they weren't going along with it??? Don't know if they ever found the bag...but that doesn't mean it was a TSA employee, it could easily have been another passenger!!!

But, I have to say that I had the nicest TSA people, on both ends of my trip...San Diego and Boston. I have to assume that the vast majority of them are honest people.

So, can we please stop casting aspersions on an entire group of people based on a small percentage of the group???

It seems somewhat disingenuous to complain about some of us saying there are more bad apples in the ranks of the airport secuurity screeners than TSA/DHS leadership acknowledges. That's what is being said, not aspersions about the entire group. After all anyone who wants to travel on a commercial airplane is treated as a terrorist until a government official decides they are not.

We all know that there are dishonest airport secuurity screeners who have not been caught. The only real question is how many? Why don't the airport security screeners have their bags searched when they are leaving the checkpoint?

And it's plain wrong to blame any passenger for the dishonesty of any airport security screener. I am certain that you know that there are lots of times when TSA employees separate travellers from their belongings during the security search process. You put your stuff on the belt and an airport security screener prevents or delays you from passing through. If you are going to get a patdown (whether voluntary or involuntary) you will be told to wait in a specific spot. A good portion of the security checkpoints are set up so that you can not see you property from where you are forced wait. And guess what? If you complain about not seeing your stuff, you a likeely to get hassled and further delayed.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Exactly what are you asserting in the part that I bolded? If it's what I suspect, it's an interesting way to defend meembers of a government agency that inspects our ID papers before permitting us to travel domestically.

Sure, we all want to be safe . . . life is risky and so is freedom.

We really have no idea how many bad apples are out there in TSA uniforms. TSA only recently released any firing figures and that was in response to getting stung by the media.

Also, remember that TSA refused to testify before congressional committees when they ddidn't like the topic or some of the other witnesses.

I was refering to people who keep repeating the same lie over and over becuase people will start to beleive it!.just what you do here over and over.....

Checking the papers becuase a person, by their own request,is wanting to fly is not the Nazis, or dictatorship or communist regeme checking papers on every street corner..please read your history

Committees?.......no...no my dear....there was only 1 actual committee.........lots of *WE will be having hearing*..but only 1 had them and that was 2 meetings that TSDA explained there rules and resons and no changes were reqiured by the committee.....not even try at changing anything.

What you are refering to was a meeting to set up the agenda for the hearing.......TSA had some reqiurements which was agreed to.


Just your usual congressal thiefs and crooks looking for votes over a none issue!

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

It seems somewhat disingenuous to complain about some of us saying there are more bad apples in the ranks of the airport secuurity screeners than TSA/DHS leadership acknowledges. That's what is being said, not aspersions about the entire group. After all anyone who wants to travel on a commercial airplane is treated as a terrorist until a government official decides they are not.

We all know that there are dishonest airport secuurity screeners who have not been caught. The only real question is how many? Why don't the airport security screeners have their bags searched when they are leaving the checkpoint?

And it's plain wrong to blame any passenger for the dishonesty of any airport security screener. I am certain that you know that there are lots of times when TSA employees separate travellers from their belongings during the security search process. You put your stuff on the belt and an airport security screener prevents or delays you from passing through. If you are going to get a patdown (whether voluntary or involuntary) you will be told to wait in a specific spot. A good portion of the security checkpoints are set up so that you can not see you property from where you are forced wait. And guess what? If you complain about not seeing your stuff, you a likely to get hassled and further delayed.

Yet you have in the past....done that over and over........called them all names...


While I agree its likely there are some who did not get caught stealing...........I don't and you can't know there are anymore!

Funny, in all the Airports I have been in, the few times I have been asked to wait, the tray with my stuff is brought over to a table near where I was standing.....Even if they didn't, I could see it just beyond the X ray.

The point is even using your figures.....1% of a 34,000 person agency is not a big number of people!......try looking at bae handlers who have been caught..police forces..........people working in OFFICES, BUSINESSES.......I dont have figiures.but Would bet is often more then 1% having found to steal.

The bottom line is this is the best way to keep the skies safe for now............if anyone doesn like it....please don't fly, get together with other thiniing your way and charter a plane........because I won't risk my families safety for a few noisy bloggers.!

ALL

 

[kaytieeldr]

According to the TSA blog, 381 of their employees have been terminated for theft. They have not published how many more have resigned rather than be terminated.

Terminated. Had their employment ended. It doesn't matter which side terminated the relationship. And it's not the public's business why or how any employee was parted from any position of government employment - no matter what you think. Sure, sometimes it makes the news.

Not excusing the still relatively few former TSA employees who are no longer in that position due to theft - which, it appears, is somehow now the topic here , as opposed to ANY other reason a person may have been separated from the TSA - but theft from luggage and cargo at airports long predates the existence of the TSA.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

What do they do if your kid is throwing a tantrum?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Like other reasonable adults, they probably expect you the parent to get your child under control. While you do that, the rest of the flying public likely expects you and your tantrumming child to step aside.

 

[sam_gordon]

Like other reasonable adults, they probably expect you the parent to get your child under control. While you do that, the rest of the flying public likely expects you and your tantrumming child to step aside.

Which you couldn't do if you aren't allowed to move.

 

[goofy4tink]

It seems somewhat disingenuous to complain about some of us saying there are more bad apples in the ranks of the airport secuurity screeners than TSA/DHS leadership acknowledges. That's what is being said, not aspersions about the entire group. After all anyone who wants to travel on a commercial airplane is treated as a terrorist until a government official decides they are not.

We all know that there are dishonest airport secuurity screeners who have not been caught. The only real question is how many? Why don't the airport security screeners have their bags searched when they are leaving the checkpoint?

And it's plain wrong to blame any passenger for the dishonesty of any airport security screener. I am certain that you know that there are lots of times when TSA employees separate travellers from their belongings during the security search process. You put your stuff on the belt and an airport security screener prevents or delays you from passing through. If you are going to get a patdown (whether voluntary or involuntary) you will be told to wait in a specific spot. A good portion of the security checkpoints are set up so that you can not see you property from where you are forced wait. And guess what? If you complain about not seeing your stuff, you a likeely to get hassled and further delayed.

I have yet to feel like a terrorist when flying. I guess it's all about perception. I know what I'm doing and have never had any issue. And that woman I watched?? No, she could not see her belongings. But she made a choice to sent her bag through without her being there. She wasn't told to put it on the belt, and she wasn't told to step aside for addtl screening. She put the bag on the belt, stood there for quite awhile, waiting. I got behind her and said 'are you in line?', 'No...I don't want to go through the scanner, so you go ahead. Someone needs to search me.' So, who knows what happened to her bag. Another passenger could very well have snatched it. It amazes me to see how people stand there, at the point where bags come out of the scanner and then start putting their shoes on, their belts on...clogging up the works, so other people can't get through to get their belongings. It would have been very easy, on that day, to take someone else's bag. I wish the TSA people would tell passengers to move away from the belt.

I know there are 'bad apples' in the bunch. I just take issue with some here saying the number of bad apples is huge. No one knows that. And yes, I'm sure there are many that haven't been caught yet. And yes, I'm pretty sure that this type employment may possibly (probably is more likely) attract those with thievery on their minds. And that's sad. So yeah, the TSA as a whole, could probably do more to weed out these people. And yes, they should be doing bag checks on TSA employees as they leave...both those that are working the public security areas as well as the behind the scenes baggage security areas.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Which you couldn't do if you aren't allowed to move.

Sorry, Sam - I forgot the thread topic. This page appeared to have moved it to TSA thievery for no apparent reason - so can you blame me for losing track?

 

[CPT Tripss]

I was refering to people who keep repeating the same lie over and over becuase people will start to beleive it!.just what you do here over and over.....

Checking the papers becuase a person, by their own request,is wanting to fly is not the Nazis, or dictatorship or communist regeme checking papers on every street corner..please read your history

Committees?.......no...no my dear....there was only 1 actual committee.........lots of *WE will be having hearing*..but only 1 had them and that was 2 meetings that TSDA explained there rules and resons and no changes were reqiured by the committee.....not even try at changing anything.

What you are refering to was a meeting to set up the agenda for the hearing.......TSA had some reqiurements which was agreed to.


Just your usual congressal thiefs and crooks looking for votes over a none issue!

AKK

First steps onto the slippery slope are usually small ones. Have you read Martin Niemöller?

As far as congrssional hearings go . . . There have been significantly more than ONE hearing on potential misconduct by TSA employees or otherwise critical of the methods employed by the agency. At least four in the recent past popped up on the first page of a web search.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I have yet to feel like a terrorist when flying. I guess it's all about perception. I know what I'm doing and have never had any issue. And that woman I watched?? No, she could not see her belongings. But she made a choice to sent her bag through without her being there. She wasn't told to put it on the belt, and she wasn't told to step aside for addtl screening. She put the bag on the belt, stood there for quite awhile, waiting. I got behind her and said 'are you in line?', 'No...I don't want to go through the scanner, so you go ahead. Someone needs to search me.' So, who knows what happened to her bag. Another passenger could very well have snatched it. It amazes me to see how people stand there, at the point where bags come out of the scanner and then start putting their shoes on, their belts on...clogging up the works, so other people can't get through to get their belongings. It would have been very easy, on that day, to take someone else's bag. I wish the TSA people would tell passengers to move away from the belt.

I know there are 'bad apples' in the bunch. I just take issue with some here saying the number of bad apples is huge. No one knows that. And yes, I'm sure there are many that haven't been caught yet. And yes, I'm pretty sure that this type employment may possibly (probably is more likely) attract those with thievery on their minds. And that's sad. So yeah, the TSA as a whole, could probably do more to weed out these people. And yes, they should be doing bag checks on TSA employees as they leave...both those that are working the public security areas as well as the behind the scenes baggage security areas.

Well, to me being subjected to a body search (either by a machine or another person), having my belongings searched and being require to prove my identity is anything but a presumption of innocence. And a desire to use commercial air travel is certainly not a reasonable cause to trigger these intrusions. Whether the people doing these things are "nice, "polite," or "professional." Is really beside the point. They are loud, "impolite," or otherwise exhibit a prison guard like demeanor, then they only add to the criticism.

You know, if we kept our shoes and belts on, a lot of your issue would go away. Sometimes I really wish that DHS would hire Temple Grandin to redesign their security checkpoints . . .

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Well, to me being subjected to a body search (either by a machine or another person), having my belongings searched and being require to prove my identity is anything but a presumption of innocence. And a desire to use commercial air travel is certainly not a reasonable cause to trigger these intrusions. Whether the people doing these things are "nice, "polite," or "professional." Is really beside the point. They are loud, "impolite," or otherwise exhibit a prison guard like demeanor, then they only add to the criticism.

You know, if we kept our shoes and belts on, a lot of your issue would go away. Sometimes I really wish that DHS would hire Temple Grandin to redesign their security checkpoints . . .

There you go again..............calling them rude and impolite......and a nasty prizon guard type......in fact the only thing you have not called them..this time.... is dumb............your credibillity is as always, is shot to hell.

BYW...........in todays world these things are nessary and your use of air travel certianly DOES WARRENT there us!..You see I pass the site of the twin towers 2 or more times a month.....I don't need reminding..........however you seem too!

The bottom line is ..........the system is in place and it is going to stay.........improve with time ??....of course.......but it will do its best to keep me and my family safe.

To be frank.I really don't care anymore if your not liking the seciurity or not.

AKK