Trouble? at school

[sk!mom]

oh wow... i guess i wil go away now. Thanks for nothing. I was looking for ideas. One was given so I took it down.. another one was given I took it down...

My kid is not perfect. She gets in trouble just like every other kid and she gets punished, but three months in and we are banging our head on the wall and the school is suggesting ADD and I was looking for a fresh view. She is ahead not because she is gifted but because I have worked very hard with her from age two to get her where she is... she is not curing cancer she is counting and spelling.. something the rest of them will be doing soon...

But if this is a bitter rude place. I will leave

I'm sorry that you were offended.

I would suggest dealing with this from several angles at once. If her behavior is disruptive enough to have you "banging our head on the wall" then I would visit the doctor on the possibility that there is a medical issue.

I would also put some type of behavior plan in place. A system where good school behavior earns some small reward. Typical 5 year olds could control behavior for a future reward. This actually could help her behavior but also be a test of her impulse control.

If you honestly think that she's just bored but cannot control her behavior and that talking about it hours later has no effect then I would doubt that she's emotionally ready to skip a grade. I would talk with the teacher about giving her options of what she may do when she has completed work- read a book (if her attention span is not an issue then this would be my number 1 choice), or not sure what else- I'm not a fan of worksheets so extra of those seems boring and counterproductive to the problem.

I would really caution against grade skipping unless she is truly extremely gifted intellectually and emotionally, and socially advanced. Many children appear to be gifted in the early grades for just the reasons mentioned- excellent preschool, parental involvement, etc... This does not mean that they will continue to stay ahead of the pack especially if they have difficulty settling in to the other demands and requirements of school.

 

[Scootypuffjr]

I am an elementary school dean and from a behavior stand point, I would talk to them about a behavior contract for multiple reasons. 1. It gives the child a visual cue for appropriate/inappropriate behavior 2. If the child does not respond to the contract after several adjustments have been made, THEN you can start looking at the potential of an underlying medical issue. 3. It gives both you and the school clear data in which you can use to make decisions. I have a preschooler that they are telling me is advanced and because of DH is also on the tall side. DH and I have discussed this, and we would never, under any circumstance have him skip a grade. There is way too much learning (outside of academics) to take that risk, and in 14 years in education I've seen it harm more children than help. Just my 2 cents. Good luck, OP.

 

[mjkacmom]

As much as I hate to say it, I was one of "those moms" who thought my oldest was the smartest in the class in kindergarten. She could read simple books, do simple addition and subtractions, printed all of her letters and numbers beautifully, etc. And yes, I asked for extra work.

It took a few kids before I realized that about 1/3 of kindergarten parents do the same. The thing is, up until 3rd/4th grade, there is a HUGE academic and behavioral gap between the kids. Some kids show up to kindergarten not knowing a single letter, and some show up reading at a 6th grade level.

All of my kids tested into the GT program, but although they are bright, none of them are "gifted." Dd13 was reading chapter books when she entered kindergarten (Magic Treehouse, Junie B - certainly not Harry Potter), and spent time helping other kids. The teacher even offered to give her additional work, but I declined, because dd was happy at school. My oldest WAS a distraction to others, not because she was bored, but because she was a PITA kid, who finally settled down in the 4th grade. Ds11 is also a PITA kid, but has mellowed. Some kids are just not well behaved.

Most kids entering kindergarten know at least their shapes, numbers, letters, and can write their names, addresses, and telephone numbers. I've never met a child who didn't go to preschool. All of my kids could read when they entered kindergarten, although dd13 was really my only outstanding reader.

As it turned out, my oldest graduated HS with a 4.0 GPA, and is currently attending a competitive university, majoring in business. Dd13 has never received a B in her life, and is currently taking Spanish 2 and accelerated Geometry in 8th grade (a second year HS course). Yes, she's bright. She's never misbehaved in school (or at home), and is NOT gifted.

 

[DopeyDame]

I have a K kid right now, so I have a few thoughts:

1. What you described is advanced, but not incredibly so. Assuming you're in a relatively decent school district, there are most certainly other K kids counting to 1000, doing addition and subtraction, and reading basic books. I'd be willing to bet there's even a kid or two doing multiplication and reading chapter books. Which isn't to say that your daughter isn't awesome, but to say that the school should absolutely be able to handle a K kid at her academic level without a problem. (For what it's worth, my son is where your daughter is in math, but isn't really reading yet - just starting to sound out words. He's pretty middle of the pack in his class.)
2. Depending on when your school district started, it's still early in the year. A lot of the first month or two of K is really social and behavioral, rather than academic. Explain to your daughter that listening and following directions IS part of what she's supposed to be leraning, and she is graded on it. Putting it in that perspective may help her understand how important it is. (Depending on her personality.)
3. The first month or two is also the time the teachers need to figure out where the kids are academically. My son goes to a montessori school, so it's a little different, but in talking to the neighborhood moms, within the last few weeks they finally started doing reading groups in K. Ask your daughter's teacher if/when reading groups and math groups will start. This might give her more appropriate work.
4. As others have mentioned, talk to the teacher about giving your daughter something specific to do when she's finished her work. Maybe a book to read, an additional worksheet to do, a special task from the teacher like dropping something off in the office, whatever. I don't think it's realistic to expect a 5 year old to sit silently with nothing to do, so work with the teacher to find out what she IS supposed to do when she's finished her work ahead of the others.

Good luck! You sound like an awesome mom who wants the best for her daughter.

 

[mjkacmom]

It's very draining on me as a parent to deal with his giftedness bc he always keeps me on my toes lol. But he does have a problem with perfection. He tries to be perfect in everything he does and most things come easy for him. We are having another issue with him bc things to come easy for him that when something is not easy he gets extremely frustrated. Like this weekend we were trying to teach him how to ride a two wheel bike and he was having trouble and got extremely frustrated and now he doesn't want to ride his bike anymore bc he couldn't ride the two wheeler in the first 5 minutes that we took the training wheels off.

Start with a small bike, so he can put his feet firmly on the ground, and push and glide (you can even take the pedals off at first). When he can balance well gliding, have him pedal. All of my kids learned in minutes with this method, before they went to kindergarten.

 

[msjprincess]

It's normal for kids to be at different levels in Kindergarten. Some kids can't read at all and others can read books. Nothing that you have written sounds out of the ordinary or that she needs to be moved to 1st grade. Yes, some kids will get bored but they still have to learn not to disrupt the class.

 

[StirlingSilver83]

Start with a small bike, so he can put his feet firmly on the ground, and push and glide (you can even take the pedals off at first). When he can balance well gliding, have him pedal. All of my kids learned in minutes with this method, before they went to kindergarten.

Thanks so much I will try that! I hate seeing him get so frustrated. He usually rides a scooter and can glide on that really well but all his friends ride bikes so he wants to ride a bike too lol.

 

[JanaDee]

It's normal for kids to be at different levels in Kindergarten. Some kids can't read at all and others can read books. Nothing that you have written sounds out of the ordinary or that she needs to be moved to 1st grade. Yes, some kids will get bored but they still have to learn not to disrupt the class.

I totally agree. Part of learning how to behave in school is learning NOT to disrupt your peers.

Right now, she may academically be above her peers, but socially and emotionally, she is not.

Both are important and she is not remotely ready to be moved to First Grade.

 

[pigletto]

Gifted or not, this is just another learning opportunity that is as important as academics. I think you just teach, guide, and model the desired behaivours whenever you have an opportunity. I don't advocate skipping a grade, specifically because she clearly is having issues with elements of the program that are just as important as the academics. Kindergarten is the place to adapt to the school environment and learn when it's time to be quiet, when it's time to be a helper, when it's time to listen etc. I think if you can frame it in a way that this isn't "trouble" it's more learning she needs to do, it will help.

Here they don't even test for gifted programing until the fourth grade. My son was clearly advanced and I knew in my heart he needed to have more of a challenge. We didn't have any behaivour issues, but he wasn't challenged at all. He started compensating by making his work more challenging. I remember him telling me he would time himself to do his work. He'd challenge himself to get "X" number of questions done in "X" number of minutes or seconds. Or he would do a writing assignment and challenge himself to only use words that didn't use a certain letter. He was creating ways to keep himself interested. I could go on and on, but basically I was afraid to go in and say "I think maybe he's gifted" because as you see in this thread, people roll their eyes before you are done speaking.
As others have mentioned, so much can change between the early and middle grades that you just have to keep a close eye, look for opportunities to learn and keep challenging them at home.
I moved him to a French Immersion program in the 4th grade and it was a godsend. It still wasn't hard for him, but it was harder and he was actively engaged in school again. This was also the testing year and he tested in the 99th percentile. His scores were in the top 7% in our province. Our board stopped funding the full time gifted program a few years ago and shut the doors. So he will get bussed in for one day per ten day cycle for extra classes. It isn't much but it will do. We've just accepted that a great deal of his learning needs to come from home. If you provide challenging and exciting opportunities outside of school they continue to thrive.
I wrote a novel here but I just wanted to share our experience and that the bottom line was that he needed to learn to get along and socialize with his peers as much as he needed the academics. He'll have to be with people who aren't necessarily like minded his whole life, as we all will. So it's best to learn it now. We are constantly working on the perfectionism and his frustration. That's his challenge. We all have something.

 

[kirstenb1]

She does sound gifted, but really? Even if she doesn't listen? Seems Mom, here you don't understand the difference between punishing and teaching her to listen to the teacher... In my opinion anyway..

Sending her up won't help that if you don't teach it, to help the teacher.. She may be bored, but she still needs to listen.

Agree. She may well be academically gifted but needs to work on following classroom rules, doing what the teacher says etc. Kids understand what their parents' priorities are. I have always tried to make respect for others a top priority. We are currently having a minor issue with our younger dd who's in 3rd grade. We have let both her and her teacher know that we will punish her at home if her behavior continues. (in her case, she is not following the strategies in math that her teacher is providing. Honestly our dd isn't very good at math, and needs very much to try the different strategies her teacher is offering).

 

[Colleen27]

I think whenever possible accommodation in-grade is more valuable than skipping grades because it allows kids to remain with their peers age-wise without sacrificing educational challenges, so that would be the goal I'd be pursuing before discussing promotion. Moving her on to first grade may look like a solution now, but how about when you're moving her into a dorm at 17?

I would start, as others have suggested, with a one-on-one conference with the teacher. See if you can work out something for more advanced lesson practice for your daughter to work on when she's done with her work or other constructive ways to use her free time, while also reinforcing the lessons about classroom behaviour.

I wouldn't, however, accept "teacher's helper" work - that was always the solution offered to us by my daughter's teachers and while I'm sure it helped the teacher it did nothing to meet my daughter's need to be challenged in school. It also created a situation where DD had no idea how to deal with small failures because she was never presented with something she had to work hard to master or didn't understand on the first try. Never being pushed fails to teach persistence, study habits, and other life skills that develop primarily from reaching beyond our comfort zone.

If you aren't able to work something out with the teacher, are there other school options available to you that might be better able to meet your daughter's needs? We moved our girls to a private school out of frustration with the lack of appropriate programming for DD13 and the difference is like night and day. My advanced daughter gets to work at a level appropriate to her abilities, and my younger daughter who has struggled a bit gets the support she needs to catch up to grade level expectations without needing a formal diagnosis or long bureaucratic process of hammering out accommodations. Between smaller class sizes, fewer constraints handed down by legislators and administrators, and more flexible thinking about what is possible they're more able to meet each student at their level and help them advance according to their potential.

 

[Sanchez]

OP, you have come to the right place and should receive excellent advice. After all, most DIS children are gifted and advanced.

 

[smiths02]

OP, Could you go observe one day? I know your DD will behave differently, but it would give you a chance to see the classroom management system already in place.
If someone was saying my child is ADD after a couple of months in KINDERGARTEN, I would want to see the classroom behavior system.
These things need to happen:
Level 1- A quality behavior management system in the classroom for every student (rules are posted and directly taught to all children, models are given, some basic reward system in place)
Level 2-Something a little more individualized for your child (extra work to keep her occupied, helper role, teacher conference in the morning to remind her to do her best)
Level 3-Full blown behavior contract with rewards and consequences (still with things mentioned in Level 2)

A 5-year-old girl getting her work done and THEN talking doesn't sound like typical ADHD. Sounds like a social little girl getting used to kindergarten. The biggest problems with the kids with ADHD that I work with are impulsive and disruptive behaviors, not paying attention to teacher directions, losing focus during work time. These children don't get their work done (or don't get it down without a lot of teacher prompting) because they were too busy not focusing.

Also, ADHD, by definition, has to be something noticed somewhere other than school. For example, my son (who is not officially ADHD but does have some attention problems) can be sent upstairs to retrieve something and not come back...I find him 10 minutes later in his room playing with some toy that distracted him. If you are not noticing the impulsivity, absent-mindedness, hyperactivity, lack of focus at home, then it is less likely ADHD.

 

[Kae]

Sounds like you DD was just prepared then some of the other kids. Some kids don't go to preschool & I think all preschools teach differently. most states do not have teaching guidelines for preschools. Back when my kids and most of our neighbor kids we alway heard oh your kid is a Hillcrest Kid-it was the closest preschool & we carpooled the teachers said Hillcrest kids were more prepared. But I will say that after the first semester everyone started getting into the swing of things. Some kids need more time adjusting to bigger class sizes, bigger school & a time away home.

Kae

 

[Earstou]

Play school with her. Set up a situation similar to the ones she has problems with at school and teach her how to behave. Print out some worksheets and give her a set time to work, which should be more then she needs. When she is done early, teach her how to manage her time as she waits, to listen to the teacher, etc.
If you think it would work, you could also reverse the play! You be the student and behave the way she does, not listening and being disruptive. Keep interrupting her and hopefully she will be frustrated by your behavior and you can explain that is how her teacher feels. This won't work with all kids, and you know your child best, so if you think it would work, give it a try!

As others have suggested, do set up enrichment possibilities for her with the teacher. The teacher needs to provide more for the advanced children!
One teacher my dd had, had an area of the classroom the kids could go to when they were done with their work, to either do more worksheets, work with math manipulatives, or to find a book to read.
The beginning of school is about assessing everyone's skills. As the year advances, there will be more learning, and your dd may do better.
Good luck!

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

At my son's preschool, the teachers were absolutely mean to kids who were disruptive, but those kids graduated preschool knowing how to sit still and behave. Did your daughter's preschool stress discipline, or were they more relaxed? Maybe Kindergarten is just a different environment.

You could try to move her up a grade, but there are advantages to being the smartest in the class. Is she physically as big as the kids in the grade above?

 

[okeydokey]

Your first step should be to have a meeting with the teacher. The teacher can help you find ways to reinforce at home what she is trying to accomplish in the classroom. Skill gaps are pretty pronounced in kindergarten and will even out over time. The important thing is for your daughter to enjoy the learning experience kindergarten has to offer without distracting the other learners in the class from doing the same. You and the teacher can be a team to make this happen.

 

[bjscheel]

I went through K with my original class (though it was half days only) but I had been reading for a couple of years already. I spent some of my K time going to a 1st grade room for reading, and also met one on one with the principal to do math workbooks. I then started first grade as usual but was completely miserable. After two weeks (during which I had visits and testing with a school psychologist), they moved me to second grade.

It was the best move for me, academically and socially. I had a 10/2 birthday (9/15 cutoff here) so I was only a month younger than the youngest of my new grade. I didn't have friends in 1st grade, but was too scared to approach 2nd graders even though I wanted to, until I was in their class. I fit in with that class better.

Just my experience, no advice on how to get her to behave in class.

 

[phorsenuf]

You cannot base being gifted because someone is more advanced in a kindergarten class. I was ahead of my class at that age and the school bumped me to first grade. In the end, I was just a normal student, doing normal course work. No giftedness on my end.

But I HATED the fact that I was moved up a grade, especially as I entered the high school years. Everyone was a good year older then me and therefore could do more things then I could. Getting into movies, driving, heck, even being of legal drinking age. You may not think any of this is a big deal in the scheme of things, but when you're a kid dealing with it is. I would think long and hard and look years down the road of how it may impact your child. There is more to growing up then just academics.

 

[msjprincess]

You cannot base being gifted because someone is more advanced in a kindergarten class. I was ahead of my class at that age and the school bumped me to first grade. In the end, I was just a normal student, doing normal course work. No giftedness on my end.

But I HATED the fact that I was moved up a grade, especially as I entered the high school years. Everyone was a good year older then me and therefore could do more things then I could. Getting into movies, driving, heck, even being of legal drinking age. You may not think any of this is a big deal in the scheme of things, but when you're a kid dealing with it is. I would think long and hard and look years down the road of how it may impact your child. There is more to growing up then just academics.

Exactly. My son entered Kindergarten ahead of much of his class. He was one of the oldest kids in the class and had an "extra" year of preschool. It evened out by 1st or 2nd grade. He is now in middle school and struggling.