TOT at DCA?

[greyno]

I was at DCA in April and spoke with a CM about future plans for the park. She indicated that they may build the TOT. I really hope they do! Has anyone else heard this or do I just look like a naive tourist who will believe anything?

 

[toefungus]

Paul Pressler said that they were fast trackin a new e-ticket attraction for DCA. It could me ToT, or Rock'n'Rollercoaster. It could be a few things. They were doing balloon test for ToT, so that could be an indication.

 

[Another Voice]

The status of ‘Tower of Terror’ depends on who you talk to, and if they’re able to choke back the tears long enough to give an answer. Right now, the only thing more terrifying than the drop in the ‘Tower’ is the complete free fall in California Adventure’s financials. Based on current trends, the park will draw less than half of it’s projected first year’s attendance (and trailing Universal Hollywood, Six Flags Magic Mountain and probably Knott’s Berry Farm). A substantial chunk (like 40%) of the attendance comes from annual passes, free, or steeply discounted tickets. The other result of the ticket giveaway is to siphon people away from Disneyland itself so that the total attendance at the resort remains flat. Park hours have already been cut three times, with still further cuts to follow in a couple of weeks. Closing the park for one or two days in the “off” season is now virtually certain; the question is how early the park will go dark and if the park will become “weekends only” post New Year’s. The park-saving Electrical Parade has been cut back to one performance nightly and will stop weekday performances entirely on Labor Day. And rumors are that if enjoy the wine tasting, you have four weeks left.

In short, Calfornia Adventure may not be able to pay for a xeroxed 'Tower of Terror'.

The different parts of the Company are squabbling over what’s wrong and how much to spend to fix it. A stalemate of sorts has been created by two events. First, the individuals with the strongest drive to get things right (Tony Baxter and Marty Sklar) have been striped of any decision making authority, The only ones left are those that created DCA in the first place and they’re very reluctant to admit they built a disaster. Second, Michael Eisner is backpedaling away from this project so fast there are skid marks up I-5 all the way to Burbank. Six months ago he made it sound like he was personally laying tile in all the restrooms, now there are “rumors” about screaming fits of “why wasn’t I told about these things” and “if I had known, I would have fixed it” (very similar to the disastrous parking structure opening). Without the interest of The Big Guy, it’s very hard to get a hundred million dollars to spend on a theme park.

Plans are drifting along, but without an overall strategy and without a definite decision. There are a lot of people arguing against yet another WDW clone in DCA (which has a reputation as a “been there, done that” park already). Groundwork in the expansion area may begin later this year just in case (and to prep for the new hotel). If Disneyland can scrape up the money on its own, and if ‘Millionaire’ surprises everyone and is a hit, and if Euro Disney Corp goes ahead with a ‘Tower’ for Paris, you may see it in Anaheim.

 

[larworth]

If the cashflow is as bad as it appears I don't see how they can afford to sit back and argue too much longer.

The impression from the PP interview was they were in the process of fastracking (ToT?) as he spoke "and we may even get there by 2002". I assumed it was already a "go", with a high likelihood it would be the stripped down version. I too would rather not see them go with another WDW clone. However, if there is real demand for a local ToT it may be the prudent next move. Is it your impression that this would be a big hit?

It looks like they really need to put all new DL rides on hold for another couple more years and pump all DL Resort capital into getting DCA fixed. However, they have DL's 50th coming up and it seems many are demanding a new E ticket for DL. If they try the "we have a new parade routine" they probably risk another big PR problem.

Talk about laying prostrate on that hard spot waiting for another rock to drop.

 

[BRERALEX]

Dont mind me im just depressed


But does anyone know if they do have enough money and imagineers to pland, build and execute a bulldozer about 100 times larger then a regular bulldozer? They can poistion the "MEGA" bulldozer right in front of the gates to DCA and roll right over it. I wouldnt pay to go see DCA and wouldnt go if they paid me but i would pay to watch a bulldozer roll right over a badly designed and poorly executed idea. What were all those so so smart intelligent big wigs thinking when they built that?

I keep reading last years Disney magazine with that big DCA sun on the cover. I'm talking about the article where they say everyone joined for a big meeting to discuss ideas for a park. How depressing. They messed up bad.

Back to ToT i thought WDW wasnt supposed to be Disneyland on the East coast so why are they making WDW on the West?

 

[AKemel]

In the latest issue of Disney magazine they describe 22 new rides at TDS. Does OLC has exclusive rights to those rides or does Disney? If it is Disney why don't they "copy" them in US/US?

 

[larworth]

My understanding is that Disney has complete access to all ride designs and could clone any of them whenever they desire.

If could see where Disney would want to wait until after TDS had some real operating experience first. Let TDS discover any mechanical/programming bugs and get some real customer feedback on likes and dislikes. Than incorporate any enhancements into the replicate (sounds very Blade Runnerish doesn't it).

Does anyone have any insight on Disney's practice around evaluating attraction performance. How many ride cycles, customer responses would they need before they were comfortable? It seems to me that you should be able to get suitable data in 6-12 months?

The Disney design process, even for a clone, feels like it is very deliberate (slow!). My assumption is that is will be several years before we see any TDS replicates? However, if they are going to throw ride copies into DCA wouldn't something from TDS have potentially a bigger draw than a WDW clone?

OK, what TDS ride would be the best candidate.

 

[AKemel]

It does make since for them to build only one copy and see if it works. It makes even more since to let someone else build it and have them gamble with the money if the ride flops. Then another question would be, does Tokyo Disneyland have any rides that are not in the US.

 

[Mousekateer55]

Yes there are a couple of things found at Tokyo Disneyland that are not found any where else. I can't name them off the bat, but I know there is one in Tommorowland at least.

 

[wdwguide]

Mousekateer,

I think you may be referring to Meet The World, a Carousel of progress type show that was a WDW/TDL coproduction but was not installed at Epcot's Japan pavilion due to the problems Disney and particularly Epcot ran into in the early to mid 80s.

 

[Another Voice]

I’ve read several places where the spin is that Disney’s genius strategy is to let Tokyo Disneyland take “the risk” and then Disney USA will take skim off the best and bring it to our fair shores. Nice thought, but things just don’t happen like that. Unless you’re buying the rides out of a catalog, you can’t hand someone a Xerox copy of blueprints and order them to start construction.

Each installation of an attraction is unique, even if the show tries to be an exact duplicate of a previous ride. All of the parks have different building and design constrictions and these are more important factors than any “lessons learned” from another park. Compare the “cloned” rides between Disneyland & The Magic Kingdom and you will find numerous major changes between each attraction that, from an engineering point, make each ride a new mechanism.

For ‘Tower of Terror’, the WDW version is a great building with an elaborate foundation and was designed to withstand the force of a hurricane. Perfect for Florida, but completely unsuited for Southern California. While the existing Tower building can stand up to winds, a moderate earthquake will send all those tons & tons of lift equipment crashing to the ground – something even Disney would like to avoid. So now the entire show building must be redesigned – and that’s where the big money gets spent. California also has more severe height restrictions than Florida, but it also allows construction underground – both elements that will change the engineering for a new Tower.

The existing clones in California Adventure – Muppets, Bugs, ¾ of Animation – are the most Xerox-like that Disney has ever done, but that wasn’t to save money on construction. The clones were –er, cloned - because the design staff for DCA was exceptional small and copying an existing show saved time & effort. Management also thought it would be safer to go with “proven hits”, but both Muppets and Bugs are pulling in substantially lower attendance ratios than the WDW versions. Not only are the construction factors different between the parks different, but the audience is different as well (something Mr. Pressler still does not understand).

As for the DisneySea clones – most of those rides were originally designed for the American parks anyway (example, ’20,000 Leagues’ was supposed to be the Magic Kingdom’s long promised ‘Little Mermaid’ attraction). It’s only Corporate’s unwillingness to invest money in the parks that has prevented those attractions from opening here – and that attitude doesn’t look like it will change anytime soon.

If you want to see great attractions -- book a seat to Tokyo, not Anaheim.


(P.S. ‘Meet the World’ ran into sponsor problems which is why it was never built at Epcot).

 

[larworth]

Yes, the biggest hurdle will be their reluctance to open the wallet. I was trying to put that aside for a moment and just think about the process.

I agree that having to alter an existing design to fit different geographic codes/building practices is often not trivial. However, I'd would find it very surprising if WDI couldn't shave signficant costs on the building of a clone over the original.

This is sure the experience in most other industries. Many companies build the same basic manufacturing plants around the world. Not having to go through all of the initial concept and feasibility studies, to understand the fundamental design principles in play, to already have many parts specifications decided on, you could go on... Why, Disney better be saving money on the cost of installing the Primeval Whirl following on the tail of Alladin. I know poor analogy, but if it works here, it work in spades for ToT.

It sure would be interesting to get a look at all those project cost records that are on file somewhere in WDI to see how this plays out. Anyone know which one of those behind the scenes tours this one falls into?

 

[AKemel]

I do agree that there are differences on how rides are installed, so they need to be customized. If they were all unique, there would be no "of the shelf' rides, which makes me believe it is cheaper to clone.
The other point of ride success in different locations is much more interesting. Different people like different things, and are willing to pay differently. Will Californians be willing to pay big bucks for TDS-style park and expensive rides- probably not (attendance was low from opening day, even before the fact that the attractions were mediocre became known). Will Florida vacationers may be, IMHO. As you said, just look at Muppets, etc. If they build it they may not come.

 

[Another Voice]

The real cost of an attraction is the construction and the physical elements. Engineering work needs to be done each time because of the different circumstances involved (for the real attractions, not the traveling carnival bits like Paradise Pier). But the design of the “cloned” elements (which are really the show elements), is relatively cheap but time consuming. All of the real parts need to be manufactured again, even if you already know what the elevator is supposed to look like. Of course they’re saving money on the spinners, buying in bulk from a warehouse store is always cheaper.

I think that if DisneySea had been built in Anaheim or Long Beach, the traffic jams would be the stuff of legends. Californians expect to be amazed and to have the best of everything. Most of all, we like things that are new. DCA is perceived as a cheap copy of things that are better at other amusement parks – Universal, Magic Mountain and Knott’s. There is nothing in the park that makes anyone around here say “wow”. People saw that from the very beginning.

One of the lines that is going around is that “walking through the gates of DCA makes you feel like you’ve been magically transported from Anaheim to all the way to California”. That’s the kind of impression that’s killed this park.

 

[AKemel]

From my experience, the creative process is the most expensive part of the product. It costs a lot of money to develop a new product, much less to manufacture it.

Californians expect to be amazed and to have the best of everything.

That is what they expect and may not wait in lines for.

 

[Banzai]

They should have waited to Feb, 2002 to open it, get more rides and stuff.