Too many rooms -too few attractions???

[ChrisFL]

The masses are most definitely happy so far. It seems like the average joe loves MM+, bands, and FP+. Much to the disgust and gnashing of teeth of the few enlightened.

Based on what data?

 

[shalom]

Based on what data?

Nobody has hard data but Disney at this point. But my impression matches Yellowstonetim's -- I've seen a lot of positive reviews from first-timers or people who haven't gone in years, while the ones screaming and tearing at their hair are long-time fans who've been going pretty regularly.

 

[ChrisFL]

Nobody has hard data but Disney at this point. But my impression matches Yellowstonetim's -- I've seen a lot of positive reviews from first-timers or people who haven't gone in years, while the ones screaming and tearing at their hair are long-time fans who've been going pretty regularly.

But what is the difference between those staying on-site vs. those staying off-site? That's the big divide right now (not even mentioning AP)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But what is the difference between those staying on-site vs. those staying off-site? That's the big divide right now (not even mentioning AP)

That's a great point...remember that a bulk of the visitors to Disney parks each day come from off property. Over the years we've gotten used to this idea that 50 million ticks at the gate are generated from pop century and animal
Kingdom lodge...

It's just not possible...the numbers just don't work out.

So the "generally positive" rating of magic bands is as anecdotal as it gets...
It's being generated by those that accept Disney's hotel rates... Which are not reasonable. So obviously that is the most forgiving audience. i know I'd get 100,000 "we think it's worth it"...but that is more a perception crafted by Disney and a personal vacation mentality talking...not really a reasoned analysis.

You can't take that as an undisputed fact anymore than those that argue that quality is on the decline based on observation and history.

It SEEMS that way...but can't be tied to an empirical fact. And as long as the gates keep clicking...or doing that crazy green spinning thing...disney will extend their hands up over their shoulders and continue to pat away.

And this is where you unequivocally cannot trust the Disney information relay system. They are the best at collecting and applying data...I've said that over and over again. But they highly manipulate it/lie when it comes to feedback on anything that changes the operation at parks.
The answer is all the same: guest wanted...always. Without fail.
Even when they modified the original dining plan to Increase the cost by about 30% and reduce wages...they still blamed the customers AND the staff. That was a doozy...customers begged to pay more and waiters begged to make less (and avoid the IRS...which they tiptoed around in an irresponsible way)

Yeah...and a bear uses my bathroom when I'm not home.

I would guess the "real" reception to the bands and the fastpass+ is a push at best...especially if it involves mass confusion and queuing people up in the front of the park trying to use Disney's technology system. Because its glitchy as hell...like all Disney computer programs. Even the app on apple platforms is all over the place...i just made a dining res through my account on a calendar selection system the other day...then had to wait for the email and link it back into the Calendar I was looking at... Because it got disconnected.
Glitchy

 

[Eoghann]

Given that reputedly as many as 50% of visitors didn't even use the previous Fast Pass system the reaction really could be anything from head scratching, to eh, to not knowing it's there at all.

I'd be surprised if the more casual or one time visitors react as strongly as the regulars. But that's not the same as saying they are in favor of it.

Disney really didn't start promoting the FP+ element of the Magic Bands until Christmas so my guess is most people don't even know it's there yet.

 

[yitbos96bb]

My only issue here is that the FLE, Avatarland and The redo of DYD all represent significant cap ex improvements and infrastructure improvements. They may not be what Some people WANT to see, but that is a different issue than them not spending money on these types of improvements. The FP+, MBE etc also represent significant expenditure. While it's not most of our first choice, they are spending.

Let's see what happens once the Cap Ex budgets are loosened again. I for sure see a DHS major effort made in the future... Either Pixar/cars and/or Star Wars... Guessing starting after the new movies begin showing.

Hope to see some Epcot love as well.

All right - I buck the trend - I agree with the OP.

My first visit was in Dec '71, just after the MK opened. Freq visitor since then, have lived in Florida several times over that period - we're Fl residents now.

I do NOT see that Disney is going to invest in significantly more hardware infrastructure (more parks or attractions) - they're putting their efforts into maximizing the return and throughput of what they have - that's the reason for MDE and MBs and Dining Plans - they're forcing the guests to plan their experience - therefore allowing WDW to plan their logistics to be more efficient - the right number of cast members, etc. to meet the projected demand.

It's a adaptation of "just in time" manufacturing for an entertainment service company - their tweaking the use of their existing infrastructure (parks) to serve as many paying customers (maximize throughput) as possible - thereby maximizing revenue.

More rooms just means more customers they can (by better planning on the customers part) squeeze into the same park infrastructure. It's good business - but it has changed the experience of the guest - used to be you could get into a decent table service restaurant without a reservation or a 90 minute wait - not anymore - and in what slow demand period that remain (mid-Sept) you still have to wait - they have cut back on the number of CMs and the restaurants are half-empty.

 

[beer dave]

My only issue here is that the FLE, Avatarland and The redo of DYD all represent significant cap ex improvements and infrastructure improvements. They may not be what Some people WANT to see, but that is a different issue than them not spending money on these types of improvements. The FP+, MBE etc also represent significant expenditure. While it's not most of our first choice, they are spending.

Let's see what happens once the Cap Ex budgets are loosened again. I for sure see a DHS major effort made in the future... Either Pixar/cars and/or Star Wars... Guessing starting after the new movies begin showing.

Hope to see some Epcot love as well.

It is a wise business move to prepare for expanded business prior to having the expanded business. Could you imagine the complaints about the park experience if Disney built all of the desired additions, and then said-- oh no-- what are we going to do about crowd control? What are we going to do about FP running out by 11 every day? What if they tried to do this roll out so many have been complaining about at a time when the parks were more crowded because of multiple new lands?

 

[MiramarQE]

My only issue here is that the FLE, Avatarland and The redo of DYD all represent significant cap ex improvements and infrastructure improvements. They may not be what Some people WANT to see, but that is a different issue than them not spending money on these types of improvements. The FP+, MBE etc also represent significant expenditure. While it's not most of our first choice, they are spending.

Respectfully disagree - FLE, Avatarland do not represent a significant capital expenditure, they are leveraging current infrastructure - a NEW park would be a SIGNIFICANT capital investment - building a new park would also entail attendant infrastructure (parking, transportation, etc.) you don't have to spend by expanding/improving an existing park - that would be a significant investment.

Avatarland is Disney's response to Universal's Harry Potter - but how much real capacity to reduce loading in all the parks will be realized by adding Avatarland to an existing park? - likely not much, and certainly not what adding a new park would accomplish. FLE is just correcting an earlier error (Toontown) and the "DYD" (DTD?) redo is another (IMO) feeble attempt by Disney to turn that property into a real money maker - Disney just can't seem to compete effectively with Citywalk - the "adult" venue DTD/Pleasure Island was supposed to be.

Disney is going to continue to leverage their current investments in parks/infrastructure and to TRY (MDE, FP+ etc) to smooth the logistics of the parks - that reduces their cost of operating the parks (fewer CMs per guest) and adds the most black ink to their bottom line in the shortest time.

 

[oddman]

The real reason many people here do not complain, as this forum attacks and dismisses anyone who feels there is a problem with Disney..

If one dares to say , treating some visitors as second class is bad there are ten posters who quickly claim money is more important, and paying more should get you more.

If you say the cruise ship is dirty, you are told that you are the problem.


If you say staff are rude, 200 will respond with stories of great staff and imply you were the one who was rude.


In short Disboards, is a fanboy site. Posters are required to leave common sense at the door and only spread sunshine. IT should not be this way and need not be this way. but that is how it is.

 

[beer dave]

The real reason many people here do not complain, as this forum attacks and dismisses anyone who feels there is a problem with Disney..

If one dares to say , treating some visitors as second class is bad there are ten posters who quickly claim money is more important, and paying more should get you more.

If you say the cruise ship is dirty, you are told that you are the problem.


If you say staff are rude, 200 will respond with stories of great staff and imply you were the one who was rude.


In short Disboards, is a fanboy site. Posters are required to leave common sense at the door and only spread sunshine. IT should not be this way and need not be this way. but that is how it is.

Really? Have you been reading any threads lately? Fanboy? If you go by the actual posts, I give it about 20% unsubstantiated negative, 40% negative with logic/ business back up, 30 % fighting to remain positive, and 10 % blind.

Please direct me to a "sunshine only" thread. Doesn't exist.

 

[surferdave]

Really? Have you been reading any threads lately? Fanboy? If you go by the actual posts, I give it about 20% unsubstantiated negative, 40% negative with logic/ business back up, 30 % fighting to remain positive, and 10 % blind.

Please direct me to a "sunshine only" thread. Doesn't exist.

Yep. It's definitely not all sunshine & smokescreens here, although there may be some that would like to make it that way.

If you've never listened, check out the DIS Unplugged podcast sometime and listen to the owner of the website (Pete). He definitely does not tow the line for Disney and will take them to task; in fact I sometimes suspect that he's one of the posters on the theme park board that gets labeled a Negative Nancy by the happy thoughts police.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

The real reason many people here do not complain, as this forum attacks and dismisses anyone who feels there is a problem with Disney..

If one dares to say , treating some visitors as second class is bad there are ten posters who quickly claim money is more important, and paying more should get you more.

If you say the cruise ship is dirty, you are told that you are the problem.


If you say staff are rude, 200 will respond with stories of great staff and imply you were the one who was rude.


In short Disboards, is a fanboy site. Posters are required to leave common sense at the door and only spread sunshine. IT should not be this way and need not be this way. but that is how it is.

~It used to be that way, it's not like that anymore.

~Those who support Disney's efforts to once again invest in the themeparks and upgrade their infrastructure with new and engaging technologies are in the minority. It's just that no one here in rumors really cares about all of the complaining.

~We're not going to get all up in arms because you can no longer run around all day collecting fastpasses until they all ran out and use them anytime you wanted after the return window opened.

~Some of us can think for ourselves, we don't have to jump on the bandwagon to fit in or feel important like our opinion is somehow superior to others.

~I was one of the fastpass collectors, it was a blast while it lasted but in no way did this make or break my vacation -- and I certainly didn't expect it to last after several guests were having terrible confrontations with "rogue" CM's who did not allow them to use their fastpass late.

~I was also among the very few posters on this board, who noticed and vocally expressed discontent with the obvious neglect and lack of new e ticket attractions in the parks like years ago.

~Those cries were completely ignored by the majority. Discussions were mostly focused on celebrating more DVC, the Fantasy and Dream Cruise ships, BBB, free dining, pin codes and preserving the Tiki Room and COP. The mass majority here could not care less about "capacity" and new E tickets.

~I was advised back then to make adjustments to my expectations and I did.

~Disney is finally reinvesting in the parks again after years of flat out neglect. The parks are receiving the much needed TLC and upgrades they have gone without for years.

~I appreciate and support Disney's commitment to the parks again. It will never be what it once was, but we are partly to blame for that.

~I recognized years ago that Disney bowed out of the themepark industry and redirected their efforts into becoming a timeshare resort with a few themeparks -- instead of a themepark with a few timeshares. This is why Disney will never have to compete neck and neck with Universal.

~Do you know of any other themepark or amusement park vested in building timeshares that can literally encompass an entire town??? Most amusement parks build new rides and attractions more than anything else because it's their livelihood. Disney's doesn't have to remain true to this model, their livelihood is DVC.

~I think it's ridiculous that people are blaming fastpass plus and magic bands for the lack of new attractions. It's DVC -- this has been going on for years, and only a tiny handful of us expressed discontent with Disney's new focus.

~I've gotten over it, so don't expect me to get all worked up and angry just because Disney got rid of legacy fp and snatched away my ability to race around all morning pulling fastpasses.

~With that said, I respect your opinion -- it's too bad this isn't working for you. But, it works for me -- I love magic bands and fp+.

~The new Fantasyland is gorgeous -- I can't wait to see the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and for Avatarland at AK to be completed. And, I hope for a possible announcement about a Star Wars/Pixarland at DHS and Epcot desperately needs some love, too.

Really? Have you been reading any threads lately? Fanboy? If you go by the actual posts, I give it about 20% unsubstantiated negative, 40% negative with logic/ business back up, 30 % fighting to remain positive, and 10 % blind.

Please direct me to a "sunshine only" thread. Doesn't exist.

~Hey there, beer baby! You are such a genius! And, as usual I totally agree with you. I see no fanbois here.

 

[beer dave]

~It used to be that way, it's not like that anymore.

~Those who support Disney's efforts to once again invest in the themeparks and upgrade their infrastructure with new and engaging technologies are in the minority. It's just that no one here in rumors really cares about all of the complaining.

~We're not going to get all up in arms because you can no longer run around all day collecting fastpasses until they all ran out and use them anytime you wanted after the return window opened.

~Some of us can think for ourselves, we don't have to jump on the bandwagon to fit in or feel important like our opinion is somehow superior to others.

~I was one of the fastpass collectors, it was a blast while it lasted but in no way did this make or break my vacation -- and I certainly didn't expect it to last after several guests were having terrible confrontations with "rogue" CM's who did not allow them to use their fastpass late.

~I was also among the very few posters on this board, who noticed and vocally expressed discontent with the obvious neglect and lack of new e ticket attractions in the parks like years ago.

~Those cries were completely ignored by the majority. Discussions were mostly focused on celebrating more DVC, the Fantasy and Dream Cruise ships, BBB, free dining, pin codes and preserving the Tiki Room and COP. The mass majority here could not care less about "capacity" and new E tickets.

~I was advised back then to make adjustments to my expectations and I did.

~Disney is finally reinvesting in the parks again after years of flat out neglect. The parks are receiving the much needed TLC and upgrades they have gone without for years.

~I appreciate and support Disney's commitment to the parks again. It will never be what it once was, but we are partly to blame for that.

~I recognized years ago that Disney bowed out of the themepark industry and redirected their efforts into becoming a timeshare resort with a few themeparks -- instead of a themepark with a few timeshares. This is why Disney will never have to compete neck and neck with Universal.

~Do you know of any other themepark or amusement park vested in building timeshares that can literally encompass an entire town??? Most amusement parks build new rides and attractions more than anything else because it's their livelihood. Disney's doesn't have to remain true to this model, their livelihood is DVC.

~I think it's ridiculous that people are blaming fastpass plus and magic bands for the lack of new attractions. It's DVC -- this has been going on for years, and only a tiny handful of us expressed discontent with Disney's new focus.

~I've gotten over it, so don't expect me to get all worked up and angry just because Disney got rid of legacy fp and snatched away my ability to race around all morning pulling fastpasses.

~With that said, I respect your opinion -- it's too bad this isn't working for you. But, it works for me -- I love magic bands and fp+.

~The new Fantasyland is gorgeous -- I can't wait to see the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and for Avatarland at AK to be completed. And, I hope for a possible announcement about a Star Wars/Pixarland at DHS and Epcot desperately needs some love, too.

~Hey there, beer baby! You are such a genius! And, as usual I totally agree with you. I see no fanbois here.

As usual, it's an illusion. Smoke and mirrors, but mostly knowing when not to comment.

I guess if I wasn't one of the founding members of DVC (not really but close) I would feel the same way about it. It all depends which boat you are in. My boat is just continuing to find more ports in which to dock.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Respectfully disagree - FLE, Avatarland do not represent a significant capital expenditure, they are leveraging current infrastructure - a NEW park would be a SIGNIFICANT capital investment -

How many hundreds of millions does one have to spend to expand a park with a major new "land" (AK) or the biggest expansion ever (MK) before you call it a significant capital expenditure?! You a billionaire or something that thinks hundreds of millions is chump change?! A new park would be a HUGE capital investment, but a new land, both FLE and Pandora are without a doubt significant investments!

~It used to be that way, it's not like that anymore.

~Those who support Disney's efforts to once again invest in the themeparks and upgrade their infrastructure with new and engaging technologies are in the minority. It's just that no one here in rumors really cares about all of the complaining.

~We're not going to get all up in arms because you can no longer run around all day collecting fastpasses until they all ran out and use them anytime you wanted after the return window opened.

~Some of us can think for ourselves, we don't have to jump on the bandwagon to fit in or feel important like our opinion is somehow superior to others.

~I was one of the fastpass collectors, it was a blast while it lasted but in no way did this make or break my vacation -- and I certainly didn't expect it to last after several guests were having terrible confrontations with "rogue" CM's who did not allow them to use their fastpass late.

~I was also among the very few posters on this board, who noticed and vocally expressed discontent with the obvious neglect and lack of new e ticket attractions in the parks like years ago.

~Those cries were completely ignored by the majority. Discussions were mostly focused on celebrating more DVC, the Fantasy and Dream Cruise ships, BBB, free dining, pin codes and preserving the Tiki Room and COP. The mass majority here could not care less about "capacity" and new E tickets.

~I was advised back then to make adjustments to my expectations and I did.

~Disney is finally reinvesting in the parks again after years of flat out neglect. The parks are receiving the much needed TLC and upgrades they have gone without for years.

~I appreciate and support Disney's commitment to the parks again. It will never be what it once was, but we are partly to blame for that.

~I recognized years ago that Disney bowed out of the themepark industry and redirected their efforts into becoming a timeshare resort with a few themeparks -- instead of a themepark with a few timeshares. This is why Disney will never have to compete neck and neck with Universal.

~Do you know of any other themepark or amusement park vested in building timeshares that can literally encompass an entire town??? Most amusement parks build new rides and attractions more than anything else because it's their livelihood. Disney's doesn't have to remain true to this model, their livelihood is DVC.

~I think it's ridiculous that people are blaming fastpass plus and magic bands for the lack of new attractions. It's DVC -- this has been going on for years, and only a tiny handful of us expressed discontent with Disney's new focus.

~I've gotten over it, so don't expect me to get all worked up and angry just because Disney got rid of legacy fp and snatched away my ability to race around all morning pulling fastpasses.

~With that said, I respect your opinion -- it's too bad this isn't working for you. But, it works for me -- I love magic bands and fp+.

~The new Fantasyland is gorgeous -- I can't wait to see the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and for Avatarland at AK to be completed. And, I hope for a possible announcement about a Star Wars/Pixarland at DHS and Epcot desperately needs some love, too.

~Hey there, beer baby! You are such a genius! And, as usual I totally agree with you. I see no fanbois here.

Very well stated. An extremely reasoned viewpoint! Not in either extreme camp. I'll bet there are a lot of people here that would agree with this.

Regarding DVC, it will be interesting to see what happens over time. I think Disney certainly has room for both and DVC is based on love for their theme parks. Hopefully now that DVC has grown a great deal an emphasis will be placed on updating the parks. I don't think they need new rides every few years, but it is time for Pandora and Star Wars. Then some updates at Epcot and they should be set for a long time.

 

[disneywalkers]

I agree as well with OP. Fantasyland seems to have more walking space than new rides/attractions.
But this only bothers frequent attendees. It's all new to those who have been years ago or only once or not at all.
I don't know is it more in their best interest to keep those new comers coming or get those families who want to and can afford to come yearly like us?
Both nice of course.
This year we have already gone and going back again in September but we will spend more time at universal parks, legoland, Busch gardens and sea world.
As much money as Disney has and as much undeveloped land they have you'd think adding new things would be faster and easy but what do I know? Lol

 

[disneywalkers]

I could not believe how things have deteriorated over just the last 3-4 years. When rode Buzz Lightyear earlier this month, the thing that hit me when I entered the building was "wow, why is this place so dirty?". The entire queue area, and all the ride cars, need a gigantic scrubbing and refresh. Badly. And many other areas of the parks are in the same condition. We were there for 9 days and thus ate counter service meals quite often, at least a couple times a day most days. I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I did not have to clean off a table. They didn't have people doing any cleaning - in order for my family to sit down and eat, I had to remove trash from tables and use napkins to wipe food and debris away from both tabletops and chairs. I remember standing in line for 20+ minutes to get food from the Patisserie in France, going to find a table, and everything was filthy. Tables looked like many families had eaten at them without anyone wiping them down. Sticky and spilled food and drink dried on top of them. It was really gross. And this happened over and over at counter places. One afternoon we had a 4pm reservation at Rose and Crown. Unfortunately for us, they seated us outside. The reason I say unfortunately is because for whatever reason, they were convinced that people sitting outside would try to stay 5 hours for the fireworks (again, this was 4pm in the afternoon). We were informed, as we sat and were handed menus, that there was to be no lingering and we needed to eat and leave as there were people waiting for our table; the waitress repeated this multiple times during our meal, as did the person who delivered our food. And we were only there 45 minutes, we ordered our food and ate it quickly because the seagulls kept trying to land on the table. All in all it was a miserable dining experience that I paid $100 for. If I ever go back - and even if I return to WDW, I don't know if I'll ever go to Rose and Crown again - I'll be sure to ask for a table inside so perhaps I can eat my meal without being treated like a deadbeat. Another day we had a 1pm Tusker House ADR. We checked in at 12:55 and waited a full hour before we were given a table. No apologies, nothing but "oh we had a computer glitch". When we finally sat down, it took forever to even get drinks. Half the party was done eating before beverages finally showed up. Our room keys didn't work, and we waited in line over an hour to get them fixed. And those are just a few of so many bad experiences this last trip, the whole MDE thing was actually just a small part of it. No, they aren't getting our money anymore unless and until they fix a whole lot of things.

Did you bring any of this to the attention of a manger?
I would have asked to speak to a manager if I was being reminded that many times that someone was waiting for my table. Disney can't make changes if they aren't told they need to make such changes.

 

[disneywalkers]

This is absolutely my experience, except for food. It was 12 years between visits Jan 2000 to Jan 2012, and then 1.5 years to Sept 2013. While the last two were closer, I still thought things were clean, well maintained, and CM's were great. I am not doubting at all the experiences of others, but I am wondering why the difference? Is it how often you visit. Those of us that visit less often notice less problems? Perception? Bad circumstance? (You just happen to be there for the one bad CM or right before they clean something) I do not know, but it does seem that a number of regular visitors have had repeated bad experiences whereas I have had nothing but great experiences. Regarding food: I am a simple food person. But we got free dining for September so we ate at a number of nice restaurants with my adult children who are "foodies." I thought the food and restaurants were fantastic, but I did not eat at these places in the past.

We have gone yearly for the last 7 years. This year we bought annual passes and went in January and going back for 3 weeks in September. I haven't noticed any decline in cleanliness. Now service at restaurants, will that can vary she to the server. In January we had a bad one at Tusker but everyone else was great. We do at least one TS a day sometimes 2. None of our party of 10 has ever complained about the food. I'm totally confused about these bad experiences. We stay off site in a house with a pool. I refuse to pay that much per night at a resort when I can get a 4 bedroom house for $100 a night. So I can't attest to the hotels. I think we get good value for what we pay but if we stayed on site I would think differently. No offense but I think paying that much per night is crazy lol One thing that I have noticed is an increase in the crowds.