Too many rooms -too few attractions???

[xie]

WDW quality has run several cycles in those 42 years - and it is now about as low as I can remember. Food quality in both the QS and table service restaurants is down, and many of the "signatures" should be re-categorized - most are little better than a hospital ER where the goal is to get you in and out as fast as humanly possible while separating you from as much cash as they can.

Park cleanliness is just plain putrid compared to the '70s.

Disney now treats guests the way most doctor's offices treat patients - your time has no value.

I could not believe how things have deteriorated over just the last 3-4 years. When rode Buzz Lightyear earlier this month, the thing that hit me when I entered the building was "wow, why is this place so dirty?". The entire queue area, and all the ride cars, need a gigantic scrubbing and refresh. Badly. And many other areas of the parks are in the same condition.

We were there for 9 days and thus ate counter service meals quite often, at least a couple times a day most days. I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I did not have to clean off a table. They didn't have people doing any cleaning - in order for my family to sit down and eat, I had to remove trash from tables and use napkins to wipe food and debris away from both tabletops and chairs. I remember standing in line for 20+ minutes to get food from the Patisserie in France, going to find a table, and everything was filthy. Tables looked like many families had eaten at them without anyone wiping them down. Sticky and spilled food and drink dried on top of them. It was really gross. And this happened over and over at counter places.

One afternoon we had a 4pm reservation at Rose and Crown. Unfortunately for us, they seated us outside. The reason I say unfortunately is because for whatever reason, they were convinced that people sitting outside would try to stay 5 hours for the fireworks (again, this was 4pm in the afternoon). We were informed, as we sat and were handed menus, that there was to be no lingering and we needed to eat and leave as there were people waiting for our table; the waitress repeated this multiple times during our meal, as did the person who delivered our food. And we were only there 45 minutes, we ordered our food and ate it quickly because the seagulls kept trying to land on the table. All in all it was a miserable dining experience that I paid $100 for. If I ever go back - and even if I return to WDW, I don't know if I'll ever go to Rose and Crown again - I'll be sure to ask for a table inside so perhaps I can eat my meal without being treated like a deadbeat.

Another day we had a 1pm Tusker House ADR. We checked in at 12:55 and waited a full hour before we were given a table. No apologies, nothing but "oh we had a computer glitch". When we finally sat down, it took forever to even get drinks. Half the party was done eating before beverages finally showed up.

Our room keys didn't work, and we waited in line over an hour to get them fixed.

And those are just a few of so many bad experiences this last trip, the whole MDE thing was actually just a small part of it.

No, they aren't getting our money anymore unless and until they fix a whole lot of things.

 

[Mommy2Corinne]

It pains me so much to say it but yes, the quality and service have been declining since the mid 2000's. It has finally reached the point, for us, that the cost of the trip is too high for the level of service we received on our last two trips, so we have no plans to return for the foreseeable future.

In other words, while we can afford Disney's ridiculously (and continiously climbing) exorbitant prices, we don't feel what they are offering us in return is worth the cost. I'm done paying hundreds of dollars a night to stand in a hotel lobby for over an hour begging for a working room key, begging to be seated for my ADR (an hour late) so I can pay for overpriced food and spotty service, standing in line for anything and everything. Over it. I get a better room at a 100 dollar a night Hampton Inn and more pleasant service at the Cracker Barrel restaurant off the interstate on the drive down.

And we loved going to Disney. We don't understand why they've let it go. We'd be back there in a heartbeat if they truly fixed it.

They are rapidly replacing the middle class single families that were return guests with teenaged tour groups and one-and-done foreign visitors, who come for a few weeks on the trip of a lifetime and never return. And in so many ways that's a "cheaper" guest for them, not least because they come without such high expectations. In addition, those guests don't care about having "new stuff" to do on future trips they're never going to make. There's no pressure from them to improve.

If something happens to drive off the foreign tourists, say the dollar drastically strengthens against their currency's exchange rates or whatever, I don't know who will be left to go fill the rooms. Deals in the US will get sweeter I guess.

Unfortunately, ITA. I wish I didn't, but I do.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

During our last trip I longed for the days when you went to the Magic Kingdom and saw only two hotels. Now with DVC at the Grand Floridian, the Contemporary and soon at the poly it felt like a mini city and not a vacation oasis.
Also with downtown under construction, several areas of EPCOT closed, a need for some new life at Disney Studios and yet to be completed work at the Magic Kingdom it felt like more people, more shopping and less attractions. Don't get me wrong, still love Disney World and will return soon, but is there a danger of losing balance between attractions and accommodations?
What do you think?

~WDW has been severely neglected for several years. Just because the old fastpass is gone now, people finally want to take notice and complain, it's not a genuine argument and Disney is not going to listen.

~I brought up these concerns repeatedly, several years ago and no one blinked an eye. I'm just glad I could see what was obviously coming and made adjustments to our expectations *years* ago, lol. Now, we can't wait to head back to WDW, and I actually love what Disney is doing right now!!!

 

[Rumors Rocks]

I find both these observations fascinating. I could not disagree more. I am not questioning your personal experience and feelings, I just have had completely different experiences.

I went numerous times in in the 80's, several times in the 90's and then our first onsite stay in 2000. Then two trips in 2012 and 2013.

My experience was awesome. Good trip, great CM's, service, food. Loved all the parks and enjoyed all the rides. Didn't have problems and didn't find a fall-off in service or product.

Why is my experience so different than yours? I honestly don't know. Maybe I am not noticing as much, not as picky. Maybe I got lucky when I was there. I do not know, but I and many people like me find Disney provides a great quality product.

In fact I have even told people that when I went in 2012 after 11 years I didn't think Disney could live up to my 2000 experience and I was nervous. Turned out better than expected. But it was so great I was CERTAIN that 2013 would not be as good. Disney again met and exceeded my expectations!

Good post.

 

[MiramarQE]

I could not believe how things have deteriorated over just the last 3-4 years. When rode Buzz Lightyear earlier this month, the thing that hit me when I entered the building was "wow, why is this place so dirty?". The entire queue area, and all the ride cars, need a gigantic scrubbing and refresh. Badly. And many other areas of the parks are in the same condition.

We were there for 9 days and thus ate counter service meals quite often, at least a couple times a day most days. I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I did not have to clean off a table. They didn't have people doing any cleaning - in order for my family to sit down and eat, I had to remove trash from tables and use napkins to wipe food and debris away from both tabletops and chairs. I remember standing in line for 20+ minutes to get food from the Patisserie in France, going to find a table, and everything was filthy. Tables looked like many families had eaten at them without anyone wiping them down. Sticky and spilled food and drink dried on top of them. It was really gross. And this happened over and over at counter places.

Google "Why did Disney build Disneyland" and the answer comes up something like "Lillian Disney (Walt's wife), didn't care much for the idea as she felt that most theme parks were dirty - Walt told her that the point of his park would be that it would be clean and different from how other theme parks were operated."

Disney is in danger of coming full circle here

 

[Mommy2Corinne]

~WDW has been severely neglected for several years. Just because the old fastpass is gone now, people finally want to take notice and complain, it's not a genuine argument and Disney is not going to listen.

:

How on earth is this not a genuine argument??? I have noticed the neglect and decline of the parks (the overall cleanliness, the maintenance of the rides, the friendliness of the CMs, the quality of the food, etc.) significantly during our last two trips...the most recent being Sept '13. I was extremely disappointed by these things.

But I was still willing to plan trips because at least we were able to ride all the attractions my children were interested in riding throughout the day without waiting standby, using our own pace and preferred touring strategies. FP+ has taken that option away from us.

Now, for *us,* the value of Disney vacations has rapidly declined even further. Add that to our dissatisfaction with the issues mentioned above, and we have not yet booked the fall 2014 trip we had anticipated.

I guess we will all see if Disney listens to these complaints or not...and their response will determine whether we actually book that anticipated trip.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

~I totally respect everyone's opinion. You will never see me on these boards, jumping down someone's throat for how they feel about their vacation and how Disney's decisions may negatively impact them. There is no right or wrong when it comes down to what we each value in our time spent at Disney.

~For me, some of the arguments don't seem genuine because it was *never* an issue at all until fastpasses were changed. The message I'm getting is -- that it's okay to dumb down dining, build DVC and cruise ships excessively, cut the monorail hours, cut maintenance, cut EMH, ignore the parks, raise prices and we'll keep visiting multiple times a year and we'll buy all your DVC, as long as we have our old fastpasses.

~Now, that FP has changed to appeal to the masses, suddenly there is this uproar by some. I don't think Disney cares, they've been rewarded by the same people complaining for too long. Disney has always had several flaws long before the implementation of Magic Bands and FP+. From my observations, the majority of guests will continue to frequent Disney and I am one of them! I respect that some people may feel differently.

~I'm so glad that I was given great advice from some very knowledgeable posters here and have made the adjustments to my expectations *years* ago to fully appreciate what is happening at Disney now.

~The majority of complaints that I'm seeing did not arise overnight. This has been going on for a long long time. I can count on one hand, how many posters were complaining along with me about the obvious state of decline at Disney World.

~It was a whole lot worse back then. Now, the parks are *finally* receiving much needed attention after years of flat out neglect. Even dining has improved a little, after being stripped down to barely nothing but chicken nuggets and grapes.

~We cant wait to get back to Disney! I can't wait to see the mine train, and Avatarland! It has been so long since Disney has built a new E ticket attraction! Sorry this isn't working out for you!



`

 

[manning]

Good thing a lot of you didn't experience Disney early years. I think the ones who have may be those who know the high quality Disney once was.

 

[ChrisFL]

Good thing a lot of you didn't experience Disney early years. I think the ones who have may be those who know the high quality Disney once was.

Or have the benefit of seeing how high quality a Disney experience CAN be, even in this day and age. The problem is that you have to fly to Tokyo to see it.

 

[tidefan]

Or have the benefit of seeing how high quality a Disney experience CAN be, even in this day and age. The problem is that you have to fly to Tokyo to see it.

Or California...

 

[xie]

Good thing a lot of you didn't experience Disney early years. I think the ones who have may be those who know the high quality Disney once was.

Indeed. "Be Our Guest" had some serious meaning on Disney property at one time, particularly at the deluxe resorts and the table service restaurants. I miss what it used to be.

 

[Joe in VA]

Go read the Yacht Club reviews on Tripadvisor. I was to pay $400 a night this summer (with a discount) for rooms that nearly every reviewer mentions as being run down or worn. The overall review ranking is dropping monthly for this resort and several others.

I noticed that last time I went in 09 that the Buzz queue was absolutely filthy, can't believe it's still in the same condition. The parks in the 90s were in immaculate condition compared to what I saw on my 07 and 09 trips. There have been no E ticket attractions added since 09 at any of the parks that I can think of, I just can't come to grips with spending $6,000 for a subpar vacation for two. As much as I love Disney, I'm very happy with going to Hawaii instead.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

Just wanted to share that the ad above while I was typing my post was "so much room, it's wild" Carry on

 

[massmickeypal]

The first time - 1995 - we took our kids to MK we all commented over and over again on the cleanliness of the park. Everything looked like it was just painted, maintenance crews were very visible, the streets were spotless. Our last visit was to a very different park. Chip used to be only a character but now was the condition of the paint . I am genuinely concerned for a special place that has lost some luster and am hopeful for better days ahead and a refocused attention to details. Those who argue bigger crowds equal more money for Disney and thus greater park investments miss the point manning made illustrating the opposite is true

Good thing a lot of you didn't experience Disney early years. I think the ones who have may be those who know the high quality Disney once was.

 

[manning]

Jim Cramer picked Iger as one of his top seven CEOs.

 

[beer dave]

How on earth is this not a genuine argument??? I have noticed the neglect and decline of the parks (the overall cleanliness, the maintenance of the rides, the friendliness of the CMs, the quality of the food, etc.) significantly during our last two trips...the most recent being Sept '13. I was extremely disappointed by these things.

But I was still willing to plan trips because at least we were able to ride all the attractions my children were interested in riding throughout the day without waiting standby, using our own pace and preferred touring strategies. FP+ has taken that option away from us.

Now, for *us,* the value of Disney vacations has rapidly declined even further. Add that to our dissatisfaction with the issues mentioned above, and we have not yet booked the fall 2014 trip we had anticipated.

I guess we will all see if Disney listens to these complaints or not...and their response will determine whether we actually book that anticipated trip.

Yup-- but the other side of the coin is that for the long time DVC owners, the value of our vacations has increased-- used to have to stay at OKW and SSR-- now for the same money we stay on the monorail loop at any resort we chose. I agree that alot has been slipping, and agree with DRDMD the the food quality is a bit on the rise again... and as of my last visit, for anyone who cares, the adult beverage list has greatly improved. Long awaited by yours truly.

 

[xie]

Yup-- but the other side of the coin is that for the long time DVC owners, the value of our vacations has increased-- used to have to stay at OKW and SSR-- now for the same money we stay on the monorail loop at any resort we chose. I agree that alot has been slipping, and agree with DRDMD the the food quality is a bit on the rise again... and as of my last visit, for anyone who cares, the adult beverage list has greatly improved. Long awaited by yours truly.

So maybe if they get everyone drunk enough the rest won't matter? Sorry that was too easy to resist.

I don't think Universal is trying to compete with Disney, except in that they'd like to have similar attendance to Disney's and of course, generally speaking, they are making good profits and would like to continue to grow those dollars. In terms of their park content, they serve some age groups and interests that Disney mostly ignores (thrill riders have a lot more to choose from at Universal, for example). Disney gave up on the adult nighttime scene years ago when they pulled the plug on PI, and Universal serves that crowd now (quite handily, from what our friends who go there say). MNSSHP is little kid friendly, HHN is for teens and adults who want to be spooked. And so on.

Disney wants to sell you on a "feeling", a little bit of old fashioned feel of yesteryear, whether Victoriana or other. That only works if the parks and resorts are spotless. If they begin to get run down it starts looking cheesy quickly.

It's funny but I've only been to Universal twice. When I went in the 90s I thought the place was not very well kept, and didn't enjoy it nearly as much as WDW. When I went back to IoA in early 2013, it was a big difference from what Universal was 15 years ago. Really big difference. It didn't feel seedy anymore. And they're spending money to keep improving it, and not just inside the 2 parks- by the time we go this fall it sounds like many of the Citywalk restaurants will have been replaced by new ones.

Anyway! Here's hoping that both companies keep working. Disney's got a bit of a cluster going right now, but there's no reason to think they will die from it; they will sort it out eventually, at some cost I'm sure. And Universal can be ascendant without necessarily impacting Disney.

Having two very strong park complexes that offer different things to different people is Not A Bad Thing. Just saying.

One thing I believe about the Orlando area in general is that a rising tide lifts all boats. Split stays, offsite stays where people are buying day tickets for both Disney and Universal parks and/or visiting other parks and parts of central Florida, etc. Anytime something new and big gets built in or near Orlando, all of the businesses there benefit from people who might have come to see the new thing, but will still pony up the dough go see a lot of other existing things while they are in town.

In other words, I guarantee you that somebody, somewhere, who had never been to WDW, but loved Harry Potter, went to Orlando to see HP and visited WDW property for the first time as well. And to whatever extent WDW is drawing brand new visitors, I bet that some of them try Universal too. In fact, I'm so sure of that simply because WDW wouldn't be working as hard to trap you onsite, if they weren't aware you were going to other parks.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

Yup-- but the other side of the coin is that for the long time DVC owners, the value of our vacations has increased-- used to have to stay at OKW and SSR-- now for the same money we stay on the monorail loop at any resort we chose. I agree that alot has been slipping, and agree with DRDMD the the food quality is a bit on the rise again... and as of my last visit, for anyone who cares, the adult beverage list has greatly improved. Long awaited by yours truly.

haha! You make me want to buy DVC and an adult beverage. Very good points, Dave.

 

[FigmentFans]

I could not believe how things have deteriorated over just the last 3-4 years. When rode Buzz Lightyear earlier this month, the thing that hit me when I entered the building was "wow, why is this place so dirty?". The entire queue area, and all the ride cars, need a gigantic scrubbing and refresh. Badly. And many other areas of the parks are in the same condition.

We were there for 9 days and thus ate counter service meals quite often, at least a couple times a day most days. I can count on ONE HAND the number of times I did not have to clean off a table. They didn't have people doing any cleaning - in order for my family to sit down and eat, I had to remove trash from tables and use napkins to wipe food and debris away from both tabletops and chairs. I remember standing in line for 20+ minutes to get food from the Patisserie in France, going to find a table, and everything was filthy. Tables looked like many families had eaten at them without anyone wiping them down. Sticky and spilled food and drink dried on top of them. It was really gross. And this happened over and over at counter places.

One afternoon we had a 4pm reservation at Rose and Crown. Unfortunately for us, they seated us outside. The reason I say unfortunately is because for whatever reason, they were convinced that people sitting outside would try to stay 5 hours for the fireworks (again, this was 4pm in the afternoon). We were informed, as we sat and were handed menus, that there was to be no lingering and we needed to eat and leave as there were people waiting for our table; the waitress repeated this multiple times during our meal, as did the person who delivered our food. And we were only there 45 minutes, we ordered our food and ate it quickly because the seagulls kept trying to land on the table. All in all it was a miserable dining experience that I paid $100 for. If I ever go back - and even if I return to WDW, I don't know if I'll ever go to Rose and Crown again - I'll be sure to ask for a table inside so perhaps I can eat my meal without being treated like a deadbeat.

Another day we had a 1pm Tusker House ADR. We checked in at 12:55 and waited a full hour before we were given a table. No apologies, nothing but "oh we had a computer glitch". When we finally sat down, it took forever to even get drinks. Half the party was done eating before beverages finally showed up.

Our room keys didn't work, and we waited in line over an hour to get them fixed.

And those are just a few of so many bad experiences this last trip, the whole MDE thing was actually just a small part of it.

No, they aren't getting our money anymore unless and until they fix a whole lot of things.

I have to agree. I have been going to Disney since 1984, and after a trip, I usually am already planning the next one. However my last three visits (early Sept 2011, late Aug 2012 and late April 2013) were not the magic that I had hoped for. I found the areas not as clean as they used to be, especially the restrooms. We also waited a long time with ADRs. The crowds (IMO) were heavier than I expected, and none of these visits were in top peak times. There were a lot of maintenance issues, including rides.

That is not to say that the trips were totally a bust (we did do the behind the scenes tour in Epcot; that was the best part of the last trip; the CM leading the tour was awesome!).

However, for the first time, I am not planning a trip back anytime soon. I don't feel the excitement that I used to. I am not angry or complaining. I am sad that my last few experiences were not as fun because I do love Disney!

 

[massmickeypal]

This is what I have been trying to say. You said it much better.