To tip or not to tip

[declansdad]

bicker:

I have had this discussion in the classroom many times as one of the courses I teach involves customer service.

Many people will tip regardless of the service and the servers know this. So they do not have to provide a certain level of service to get their tip. On the other hand, if they don't receive a tip, they provide less and less service. Bartenders are a perfect example. Many of them will tell you that if you don't tip, it will take longer and longer for them to serve you. They feel that unless you tip, they are not required to provide you with good service. This is why I feel the expectation of a tip has hurt customer service.

I agree with you that the customer is the best judge of the level of service they feel they have received. If you go back to what a tip is suppose to be, a gratuity for service that went beyong the expected, taking the "expected" tip out of the equation would simplify the entire process. A customer who truly feels that the server deserves something extra would still be free to tip and even the mediocre server would know they will get a decent wage.

 

[declansdad]

If you don't want to tip, don't eat in the USA. Every country/culture has it's own traditions and customs, some are written, some are just known. That is why there are guide books, to help travellers know what is expected, and not to do anything inappropriate.

I never said I don't want to tip or that I don't tip. That isn't what this discussion is about.

 

[declansdad]

Don't have anything in writing, but do you have the Disney Dining Experience card? Wait - they changed the name - can't remember the new name.

Disney automatically adds 18% gratuity. Our last trip, we ate at Sci Fi. First thing the waitress asked was if we were on DDP or DDE. The couple behind us were on DDP and gratuity is not automatically added. We got crappy service and they got great service. We were in the same car. We were seated first, but our order was taken last and our food was much later coming out and we had to ask for drink refills. The people behind us did not.

But I know this is all another thread and debate.

You still have two different situations. If the tip was added for everyone, the servers wouldn't have to compete for the tip, so to speak. They would have to treat everyone the same and provide a good level of service. If they didn't, customers would complain about the service and management would be forced to make changes.

 

[bicker]

Many people will tip regardless of the service and the servers know this.

Which is basically the same as the menu prices being 15% higher. Okay...

On the other hand, if they don't receive a tip, they provide less and less service.

Evidence? How does a server know in advance that they're not going to receive a tip? (By the way, there is a valid answer to this question, but it supports my contention, not yours.)

Bartenders are a perfect example. Many of them will tell you that if you don't tip, it will take longer and longer for them to serve you.

Okay, so you're talking about the next round of drinks. This is fair, and why shouldn't a bartender provide better service to people who provide higher tips. That sounds perfectly fair to me.

This is why I feel the expectation of a tip has hurt customer service.

But the poor customer service isn't caused by the expectation of the tip; it is caused by the patron's failure to fulfill that expectation. Big difference!

If you go back to what a tip is suppose to be...

Don't go there. First, what you wrote isn't really true. But more importantly, it doesn't matter. Gratuities are what they are, and that even varies from country to country. All that matters, in the United States, today, is what they are supposed to be in the United States, today (and perhaps what they should be based on why that would be better). You're advocating changing that system, so you can't legitimately defend your claim about what gratuties should be based on what you claim it is "supposed to be".

 

[declansdad]

Sorry, all you are doing is interpreting what I stated to match what your opinion. We both have an opinion, neither is going to change.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Here's the thing!!!!

Tipping discussions bring out the beast in people......with that I am asking that we respect each other opinions and maybe come to the realization that we are not going to change each other's opinions on this subject..

On the restaurant board, these discussions get testy and then locked.....we will be watching this thread and if it goes that way, it may be locked too..

 

[mjkacmom]

I honestly don't see the advantage of restaurants charging 15% more, and paying their servers more, and indicating such to the patrons, so they don't feel obligated to tip for average service, vs. the restaurants charging 15% less, paying their servers less, and giving me the option NOT to tip 15% if service was really lousy, or tipping more if service was really good. It gives the patron more wiggle room with the latter.

Having waitressed, knowing my tip will be based in part by my service really did motivate me to do a better job. I have personally found customer service to be better when they are monitarily motivated to do provide good service.

 

[declansdad]

Having waitressed, knowing my tip will be based in part by my service really did motivate me to do a better job. I have personally found customer service to be better when they are monitarily motivated to do provide good service.

I agree with this; however, I have had people tell me just the opposite as well. They know people feel obligated to tip so they don't feel they need to provide good service. They realize that most poeple will tip regardless.

There are also those who feel they are entitled to a tip and again, do feel theat they have to do much to get the tip. I don't think this is everybody, bu there are a fair amount of servers who feel this way.

 

[bicker]

To be fair, I think the understand is, or at least must be, that the whole "charging 15% more" arrangement would be across-the-board: All restaurants (forced into) doing it, all at once. At a minimum, all restaurants would be forced to comply with the minimum wage, but that, alone won't do the trick. I'm not sure what else would be needed to bring that about, but without a means of ensuring across-the-board implementation of the change, it is truly a non-starter.

 

[ICF]

The gratuity is to cover the cost of service provided by the server. The food is covered by the menu price. Kitchen mistakes, unless obvious to the eye (of the server), are not to be accounted for in the gratuity.

If I order a hamburger w/o cheese and the server brings me the burger with cheese I'll dock them.....and this happens ALL the team. I order lots of foods with or without something that is standard included....places get my orders right about 1/2 the time.

I love the ones that don't write your order down, acting all cool that they'll remember it, and then when the food comes its wrong. I told one of them once, that perhaps next time they should write things down so they don't mess up the order and not even realize it when they bring me my food.

 

[Amlee]

If one is not from the United States and unfamiliar with which positions are "tipped" and "untipped", it would behoove them to purchase a guide book or go on any number of travel websites to familiarize themselves with the practice. Seems like a simple solution.

I agree. As a traveler, I am expected to learn some of the customs of the country I am traveling too. When I leave the states, I leave behind my rules, customs and culture.


I expect the same of others who vist my country.


That being said, I tip as the service warrents. If I have great service, then I give a great tip. If I have poor service, I will give a tip to fit that service.

As for people expecting a tip, two of the worse of my tipping experiance came in Euorpe. While in Belfast, the tour guide didn't know snot. The bus driver was always correcting him on things. He was rude to boot. But at the end of the tour, he demanded that we tip him as we would if we were in the states. OK bucko! You got it! I gave the tip to the bus driver!

The other was in Amsterdam, she was awful! I had already decided I was going to tip her a small amount, but then at the end, she once again demanded that we tip her as we would in America. Do not demand me to do anything!

 

[bicker]

If I order a hamburger w/o cheese and the server brings me the burger with cheese I'll dock them....

Me too. The server should be able to see that cheese is missing and have that remedied before bringing the food to the table. Contrast that with my ordering the burger medium-rare and it arriving medium-well. It is unreasonable to expect the server to be able to tell the difference between those two.

 

[juligrl]

While we can discuss whether or not patrons should or shouldn't be responsible, my point was about the reality that patrons are responsible. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

No, patrons are not responsible for tipping a server. It's absolutely a nice gesture to show your appreciation, but if I walked out of a restaurant without leaving a tip - nobody would be chasing me down to get the tip off of me. If I didn't pay my bill on the other hand... that is something I am truly responsible for.

 

[mjkacmom]

I agree with this; however, I have had people tell me just the opposite as well. They know people feel obligated to tip so they don't feel they need to provide good service. They realize that most poeple will tip regardless.

There are also those who feel they are entitled to a tip and again, do feel theat they have to do much to get the tip. I don't think this is everybody, bu there are a fair amount of servers who feel this way.

If you paid those servers who don't feel the need to provide good service a flat salary, with no expectation of a tip, I don't think their service would improve - might actually get worse.

 

[declansdad]

If you paid those servers who don't feel the need to provide good service a flat salary, with no expectation of a tip, I don't think their service would improve - might actually get worse.

Then you would fire those servers.

Tipping is subjective for everyone involved.

 

[Spiritinthesky]

I've just come back from a three week trip in California. We just left a tip when the service was good, which was most times, and we always leave above 10%.