fatmanatee
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2017
Did a double take when I saw those temps, wow.
To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)
- Thread starter DopeyBadger
- Start date
lookingforsunshine
it never hurts to keep looking for sunshine
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2021
Billy finished!!! Way to go Billy!!! You are seriously my running hero/inspiration. Hope you have a nice day of recovery, and I look forward to the report.
RuntheMouse
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2022
Another one in the books. Well done Billy!
GollyGadget
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2017
Congrats on yet another marathon finish! Take some time to relax and reassess. We're all rooting for you!
dis_or_dat
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2016
Congrats on finishing in such cold conditions! 
DopeyBadger
Imagathoner
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2015
2022 Madison Marathon Recap
Prediction Game
My Prediction
My Strategy
Final Weather Forecast
Let's start with Saturday. On Saturday, I did the Western Australian carb loading procedure as planned. I was aiming for 11-12 g carbs / kilogram body weight. I weighed in at 178 pounds which was roughly where I expected to be. I was 175.8g for last year's Madison Marathon, was 170 pounds at the Madison HM in 2019, and was 167 pounds at my PR at Lakefront 2017. The carb loading went great and wasn't an issue. I added the timing breakdown to the Strategy post, but I ended up consuming 983g carbs which was 12.2 g/kg bw. Overall, I felt good coming out of Saturday. I headed to bed around 8:00pm.
I woke up at 3:45am and with a planned awakening at 4:00am I just decided to get up. My body score was only 50, as my Garmin didn't think I slept all that well. It seemed fine enough to me (7.5 hrs and 2 hrs of REM). For reference, my Body Score prior to the Princess 5k was 51, prior to Princess 10k was 47, and prior to Princess HM was 41. The Body Score was 49 prior to Madison 2021 (but was 80 the day prior). I headed downstairs and ate a toasted bagel with peanut butter and a banana by about 4:15am. I also drank a Liquid IV and in total drank about 16oz water. I headed back upstairs and showered and got ready. The plan was to leave at 5:30am, and everyone was on time and out the door. I had prepared all my stuff for leaving on Friday/Saturday night and so the morning was stress free.
We took the short drive over to Madison (about 25 min or so), and then parked in an underground parking spot. I had taken with me both sets of arm warmers (smart wool vs old socks) and decided on the old socks on the chance I would take them off and dispose of them mid-race. Additionally, I took both my Alphafly and Next%2 with me in case I didn't like how the Alphafly fit on race morning. So right after we parked, I slipped the Alphafly shoes on and they felt good. So I was ready to rock. Everyone grabbed everything we needed from the car and then we made our way to the Capital Square where the race was being held.
In year's past Starbucks opened at 6:00am on race day. But they weren't open this year, nor was anyone even getting the store prepped for opening. We shuffled over to the other coffee shop on the square (Collectivo) and confirmed they didn't open until 6:30am. There were a few gusts of strong wind which took me by surprise since we weren't suppose to have much of a wind for the race. We continued on our way and found the portas around 6:15am. I used the restroom for what was to be the last time approximately 2 hours after eating and drinking. I met up with Steph and G as we kind of just hung around the porta area. Last year I had the sudden urge to go one last time late in the process and this year I wanted to be within view shot if that came up again. I started doing some stretches around 6:20-6:30 or so. Wrapped up the stretches and then headed back to the portas again. Came back out and did some last check-ins on the clothing choices. As we were about to head to the starting line, I decided to try the portas one last time and used it for a third time. Not the usual routine, but I'm glad I stuck around.
We headed to the starting line around 6:45-6:50am. I was still wearing my winter jacket and sweatpants. I slammed my Maurten 320. When we finally arrived at the starting line, I disrobed my jacket/pants and was left with my tank top, old sock arm warmers, headband, light gloves, and shorts. I said goodbye to Steph and G, and then got in the starting chute. I made my way through the crowd towards the front-ish area tucked in with the 7:00-8:00 min/mile projected pace. I met up with a runner, Griffin, whom I had helped train for last year's Madison Marathon, and again for this year's race. We went over some last minute strategy. We're of similar fitness level (Mile and 5k PRs are similar), but he lacks a ton of data in the 10k or HM races. So we decided to be conservative for him and aim for a 3:15. If he was feeling good late, then open the legs and see what happens. They sang the National Anthem, and then we were running behind on the race and so within about 10 seconds of the national anthem finishing the guy on the microphone was starting the countdown. And then we were off.
Conditions -
Clear, Wind 7mph to 13mph
Start: Temp+Dew = 27°F + 20°F; FL - 19°F
End: Temp+Dew = 31°F + 21°F; FL - 19°F
The weather ended up being pretty much as predicted. It was about a 19F windchill, sunny, and the wind wasn't all that bad.
I paid attention to my splits, and made adjustments to split goals along the way based grade adjusted pacing calculations done pre-race (see Strategy). Going into the race, I felt like I had a slim chance of a sub 3:05 BQ and a pretty good chance of a sub 3:14 PR. I thought something around 3:08 was going to be the most likely outcome.
Mile 1 - 7:10 (GAP 7:17) - Est. Finish 3:08:59
Things felt decent right at the start. There's a short uphill that I was fairly conservative on. This is a place where lots of people tend to be flying by you despite being at an appropriate pace. After the short uphill is the longer downhill. It's not terribly steep (-3 to -7% grade), but it does exact a toll if you take it too aggressively. At this point I was just trying to settle in and find my groove. At times the Madison roads can be quite cambered (even more so than at home). So it's always about trying to keep the long term in mind. I believe at one point I looked down and saw something in the 7:25-7:35 range for average pace. Given this was likely a net negative GAP mile, I did want to see me in the sub 7 area. But I didn't really let it bother me since I knew it was early and I just wanted to settle in to a groove. I ended up finishing the first mile in 7:10. A little off the goal, but I was ok with it. Nothing was hurting which was the important early phase of running goal.
Mile 2 - 7:21 (GAP 7:21) - Est. Finish 3:11:24
Right after the end of the first mile was the first aid station. Last year this was a cluster because of the 3:20 pace group. They went out super aggressively, and it made getting to the aid station a little more trouble since I found myself on the opposite side of the group. But this time around, I didn't have any issues with them. My goal was to take in two waters at every aid station under the assumption they'd have about 3 oz per cup. More often than not, the cups had more than 3 oz. But what took me by surprise at the first aid station, and it probably shouldn't have, was the layer of ice on the water in the cup. As soon as I tried to drink it a shard of ice tried to make its way down my throat. I was like, whoa, that's not a good idea while trying to run. So I quickly slowed down and took the water down without choking myself out with ice. It's at this point I decided that I would probably walk all of the aid stations. It's likely they're all going to have ice covered cups. I also thought that the brief reprieves of walking could help serve me later in the race. So I walked for a bit, drank the water, and then got going. My Garmin 245 (or maybe the Garmin Connect had an update) now includes estimated for walking duration, but it didn't capture anything here. Based on the pace, it was about 10-15 seconds or so. I started moving again, and was anticipating the pace of the mile to be somewhat slower. My hands were cold, but tolerable. Otherwise the rest of my body was doing alright. I hit up the second aid station, and it was much the same as the first. I got one cup, walked through it, and there was ice in the cup. I crossed the two mile mat at 14:40. Last year I crossed at 14:42.
Mile 3 - 7:01 (GAP 6:58) - Est. Finish 3:09:17
Things were starting to settle into a groove once we entered the arboretum. I also noticed at this point in the race that the crowd around me wasn't quite like the crowd from 2021. Where last year there were a few other runners making some noise or being boisterous or setting off at blazing paces, this time around the group seemed more business like. More subdued and everyone was there for a reason. I jockeyed back and forth with a few other runners in this section. I'd be running with them, and then I'd stop for water, and then slowly reel them back in. Garmin shows me being a little too quick on the pace in this mile. I was hovering around the 6:30-7:00 area when I was actually running. And that explains how I could manage a 7:01 mile despite having a 10 second or so walking break for water. HR wise though I wasn't in a bad place. Last year's race was average of 145, and it would appear this mile's average HR was 145. So I was in the right place all things considered. I can't remember when it was, but sometime when I was in the arboretum (Mile 2-5) is when I had my first bit of real adversity. The right Alphafly shoe kept hitting my left foot ball of the ankle. This happens from time to time when I'm running, and it's why I wear quarter socks. But it was happening a little more frequent than I would expect. In post-run analysis, the Alphafly back end is just a tad wider than the Next%2. I didn't have any issues with this though in my one trial run with them. Each time it would make contact with my ankle it was a little more painful than the last. While I'd like to say this was a reason for the eventual slowdown, it wasn't that big of an issue. If I had tried to maintain paces later, then maybe it would have been. But that's an unknown. When I finished the Mile at 7:01, things were feeling good and I felt like I had found my groove.
Mile 4 - 7:19 (GAP 7:07) - Est. Finish 3:10:12
This was my first pre-marked GAP uphill mile. I was expecting a +11, and it ended up being a +12. I took it nice and easy and made sure I wasn't too aggressive on the uphills. I continued to jockey with the same few runners, but each time I stopped at the water stations and they didn't they would get a little further ahead of me. But I was fine with that since I was aiming to be a touch slower on this mile anyways. During a downhill section it appears I was doing about 6:00-6:10 pace for a few moments. When I came in at 7:19, I knew I had done well being appropriately paced.
Mile 5 - 6:53 (GAP 6:50) - Est. Finish 3:08:27
This was the end of the arboretum portion of the course. I knew towards the tail end of this mile was going to be a nice big downhill outside of the Nakoma golf course. I came out of the Arb feeling pretty good. We got some crowd energy on the exit, and then I bolted down the hill. Looks like I was doing about 6:10-6:20s down the hill. Cadence was good. HR was still good. Everything was feeling good. Ended the mile at 6:53 which was a good feeling.
Mile 6 - 7:00 (GAP 7:03) - Est. Finish 3:07:49
Felt like I was really starting to hit my groove here. I was eating up good ground. Body was feeling decent. Hit up the aid station sponsored by the local high school and they gave some good energy. Garmin says it took me 5 seconds of walking through this one. Pace was holding the 6:50s when I was actually running. The weather felt good. Sometime after coming out of the Arb is when my fingers felt normal again. Nothing on my body felt all that cold, but I had no desire to take the arm warmers off. Finished the mile in 7:00 flat and felt like I was headed in the right direction.
Mile 7 - 7:23 (GAP 7:11) - Est. Finish 3:08:48
Alright, we're at our second pre-marked GAP uphill. It was planned to be a +13 and ended up being a +12. So I aimed to be slower through this mile. I had my first drink of Tailwind concentrate. I hit the 10k mark in 44:07. In 2021, I hit that mark in 44:55. So I was only 2 second ahead after 2 miles, but by 10k I was now nearly 50 seconds ahead of 2021. The official 10k split of 44:07 was placing me between a 3:05-3:07:30 finish. I hit the aid station, and then I made my way up the hills. I remember this being a time when I hit my ankle several times with my right shoe. It wasn't feeling great, but wasn't slowing me down. But I was trying to consciously swing my right foot out a touch more to keep it from making contact. We made our way on to the bike path after the hills, and then things settled in again. I wrapped the mile up at 7:23, and I was pleased with the effort.
Mile 8 - 7:11 (GAP 7:09) - Est. Finish 3:08:53
This mile is a bit of an up and down. We continued on the bike path. I saw some people cheering. A baby eating some food while in a stroller. When we exited the bike path there was a decent crowd cheering people on as we crossed in front of Camp Randall. I remember this was when "Alan" passed me last year, and then I would later pass him. But like I said earlier, this group of runners while spread out more so than 2021, just felt different. I was feeling good. I knew the Mile 8 aid station was coming up so I took my Maurten caff gel a bit early so I wouldn't get stuck trying to eat in the middle of the aid station. I wrapped the mile up in 7:11.
Mile 9 - 7:15 (GAP 7:18) - Est. Finish 3:09:08
As I came out of the 8th mile aid station I passed one of the places I used to live when I lived on campus. We lived there from 2009-2011 before we bought our house. A girl was cheering outside, and I yelled to her that I used to live there. She seemed perplexed, but whatever. I was cruising along old University. I saw a cop giving out fist bumps so I obliged. We turned down a short down/uphill and then headed towards Mile 10's Observatory hill. This was probably the first mile that came in and surprised me a little. I didn't feel like I was running 7:15s and that felt a little slow to me. I was running mostly in the 6:50s according to the Garmin pace. The aid station costed me about 12 seconds according to the run/walk data. So that makes sense in post-run analysis. I did about 7:03 pace if it weren't for the aid station.
Mile 10 - 7:43 (GAP 7:24) - Est. Finish 3:10:34
Alright, we made it to the third mile with a GAP adjustment. I expected a +17 and got a +19. The Observatory hill is quite steep (10-11% if Strava is to be trusted). So I slowed way down on the uphill. A guy passed me that looked a lot like a guy in my village that runs too. Our daughters are friends and we chat running whenever we see each other. He's faster than me (around 1:23-1:25 HM and near sub-3 M). He also regularly does 100+ mile weeks. I did realize after the race that it was in fact him. Once I got to the top of the hill I tried to regain my form. The problem with the uphill on Observatory is the downhill on Charter St. It is also quite steep (-11%) and is hard to control yourself on. It tends to beat me up and I tried to take it slow. So you can't make up for the uphill with this downhill section. I flattened out at the bottom of the hill and hit the aid station. The mile came in at 7:43 and I wasn't thrilled. It was slower than I wanted it to be, but also I knew I took the uphill slow in an attempt to save my legs for later. So I didn't dwell on it. At this point I looked at my GPS average pace and saw 7:14. I glanced at my cheat sheet and saw a GPS pace of 7:14 was around a 3:11 finish. I was ok with that, and carried on.
Mile 11 - 7:21 (GAP 7:17) - Est. Finish 3:10:52
I ate an Egel during this mile. We were running along University Ave. So there were a few more spectators out and about. Nothing terribly remarkable about the mile. This is the section of the course where we get some undulating rolling hills but everything cancels out on the GAP to make it "even". For the most part I was feeling ok, but things were starting to drag a little. When I finished the mile and saw 7:21s, I was getting a little concerned. Certainly didn't feel like I was trending in the right direction compared to earlier in the race. My energy levels weren't as high, the effort was still good, but I was starting to slow. There were no aid stations in this mile, so the pace was true.
Mile 12 - 7:29 (GAP 7:30) - Est. Finish 3:11:24
Continuing to fade in pace. This section of the course is hard because of the camber. I tried not to focus on it, but it did bother me. The Garmin shows that I stopped for 19 seconds on this aid station. So quite a bit longer compared to everything prior. The course was taking its toll on me. And as miles continued to clock in slower than the 7:14 mile pace average that I had been getting, I was starting to lose a tiny bit of motivation.
Mile 13 - 7:23 (GAP 7:23) - Est. Finish 3:11:39
Alright, this was a bit of an uplift on this mile. I came in at 7:23 pace and was feeling a bit better about things. I was happy to see the pace a little quicker and maybe we could stop the bleeding. There was an aid station that came in at about 11 seconds. So I was doing about 7:12 pace when actually running.
Mile 14 - 7:41 (GAP 7:38) - Est. Finish 3:12:26
I came out of the 13th mile feeling good. I hit the HM split at 1:35:15. That's an officially projected 3:10:30 finish. I'm good with that! Compared to 2021's HM split of... well look at that... 1:35:15. LOL, well at least I'm consistent. But that's not a great sign when I had gained nearly 50 seconds on 2021 in between Mile 2 and the 10k split, to turn around and completely erase that lead in 2022. It was also a little disappointing to have run a 1:34:00 HM split during my Canova 120 training run, and then turn around and run a GPS 13.11 split of 1:35:19 or so. Something doesn't add up there though. Because I was definitely hitting GPS splits before I was hitting course mile markers or timing mats, but whatever. At this point I was probably in line for a 3:10-3:11 finish if I could actually maintain pace for the remainder of the race. But I also suspected I was pretty close to the same point in the race as I was last year, and assumed if I faded by about 3-4 minutes on the back half, then I'd finish around 3:15 or so. Not what I wanted, but I'd take it. Here's the kicker though. I finished Mile 14 in 7:41. As much as the HM split was uplifting and I was ready to attack the second half, this mile split was a death knell. It definitely took the winds out of my sail for sure. There was an 11 second aid station in here, but that's still 7:30 pace. Looking back at 2021, we crossed the HM split at the same time, and Mile 14 was 7:21. I was 20 seconds slower through the same mile. So it was decision time. Do I buckle down and grind this out, or do I just admit today isn't my day and let it go. Honestly, nothing about a 3:15-3:20 finish excited me. I did that in 2021. 2021 was my return to running a marathon well after what were disappointing finishes between 2018-2020 (other than Dopey 2018). 2021 felt more like 2017, albeit not at a high level of fitness, but the finish was my second fastest and I was proud of that. I wasn't looking for the same type of moral victory in 2022. This wasn't meant to be a rehashing of my return to running marathons like 2021 was. I wanted 3:05-3:14. Not another 3:15 finish, and not another finish slightly slower than 3:15 based on how Mile 14 just went. So it's at that point that I shut it down. Marathons take a major toll on the body. Running a fast marathon relative to your fitness level takes a major toll on the body. Running a marathon when your body is fading hard and thus your running form is suffering can exact a very high toll. I wasn't willing to pay that price for a 3:15-3:20 finish. For a 3:05-3:14 finish, yes. I'll put myself through that. But not for a slower finish. I quickly accepted that reality and just set my body to cruise control. I would just run easy and not really worry about the pace for the remainder of the race. Just take in the sights and sounds as I rounded out the race. I only for a split second even considered just walking off the course, but ultimately I wasn't injured and could just cruise this one in to wrap up the training cycle.
Mile 15 - 7:42 (GAP 7:43) - Est. Finish 3:13:09
Mile 16 - 7:47 (GAP 7:36) - Est. Finish 3:13:54
Mile 17 - 8:02 (GAP 7:53) - Est. Finish 3:14:57
I believe it was during Mile 16 or so that Griffin finally caught up to me. I was expecting him to catch me eventually since he was aiming for a 3:15. He looked strong. I had a feeling he was going to be able to attack the back half of the race and possibly shave some time off the 3:15. He did. He ended up finishing just a hair above 3:09 with a very quick and strong finish.
Mile 18 - 8:08 (GAP 8:14)
Mile 19 - 8:17 (GAP 8:03)
Mile 20 - 8:33 (GAP 8:32)
Mile 21 - 8:35 (GAP 8:28)
Mile 22 - 8:58 (GAP 8:28)
Mile 23 - 8:39 (GAP 8:55)
Mile 24 - 8:33 (GAP 8:30)
There isn't much to say about these miles. I was just trying to enjoy myself out there. I was taking extra time to thank the volunteers and the spectators out cheering for us. I photobombed a few spectators who were taking pictures of themselves. I said hi to an adorable tiny puppy. Just super chill. That super uphill at Mile 21.5 was as aggressive as ever. The downhill afterwards though really destroyed my legs. Last year I was able to crush this downhill, but I had to be extra cautious going down this time as it was a little painful.
Mile 25 - 8:52 (GAP 8:52)
So I was coming down to the tail end of the race. Not much left to go now. I could see a younger guy runner ahead of me. First he was running, then he was slowing down, then he stopped running, then he sat down on the curb, and then by the time I got to him he laid down in the grass. I looked at him dead in the eye and asked him if he was ok. He was definitely conscious, but he didn't give me much of a response. This close to the finish line is not the time to see someone voluntarily sit down or lay down. So I looked for the next official person I could find. I saw a police officer at the intersection ahead and as I got closer to him he started to head to his car (probably to get warm). The timing wasn't great. He was across the street and I waved at him in his car. He waved back gleefully, but I made a point to point behind me. He got out and I told him that I was concerned for a runner that was laying in the grass. He told me he'd check on him and headed that way. Once I got to the next intersection I could see two med personnel chatting on their bikes. I told them about the runner as well and they jetted off to go check on it. I suspect he was fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. The whole situation completely took me mind off the running. I missed the Mile 25 notification, and when I looked down I was at 25.4 miles.
Mile 26 - 8:47 (GAP 8:29)
Finish - 8:42 (GAP 8:22)
Just an uphill, rounded around the outside of the capital square, up State street and then headed towards the finish line. Since I wasn't so focused on running I tried to keep an eye out for Steph and G. I saw my MIL at the corner (probably to give everyone else a head's up), and then I found Steph, G, my BIL, and SIL standing right before the finish. I decided to detour from the finish line and go give G a hug.
Then I headed to the finish line, and wrapped up the 17th marathon.
Final Time - 3:26:26
Overall - 140/1086 (12.9%)
Gender - 124/684 (18%)
AG - 22/79 (28%)
The final time was my sixth fastest of my seventeen marathons.
Once I got past the finish line I grabbed a water and drank it down. Then a volunteer offered me a mylar blanket. I jokingly asked him if it was cold enough to warrant the use of it. He looked at me very perplexed, and was like, yea, it's cold... LOL! I took it, but didn't feel the need for it. I wasn't all that cold despite it being only a 19F windchill. I headed over to the picture area and got a pic with my medal.
I headed through the finisher chute and got myself a brat and chocolate milk. Then I found the family again and asked G if she wanted to take some pics with the backdrop.
I let her wear the medal for the remainder of the time at the race. She earned it having to stand outside in the cold to see her dad finish. Thankfully, they hung out inside the Collectivo coffee shop for a majority of the time. We headed towards the car, and then we headed home. My fingers weren't doing great. They were pretty cold and shriveled up inside my light gloves. But other than that, my body was doing alright with the effects of the cold. It wasn't like I was overly shivering or anything. I wasn't that bad off at home either. I've definitely felt worse after finishing a marathon. My recovery hasn't been that bad, not that I want to get starting with training again any time soon. My quads are bruised which is a curious development, but don't know what's going on there.
So... why? Why did the race go the way it went? I sit here about 36 hrs later with more questions than answers. Cardiovascularly everything looks fine. My HR was never in a bad place compared to what I've done in prior marathons. I took walk breaks through aid stations to help keep myself fresher for later in the race (mostly because of the ice over the water cups). I felt fine in my clothing choices despite the cold weather. The Alphafly bothered my ankle early in the race, but once the pace slowed it wasn't an issue anymore. In total my watch estimated that I walked for 2:38 minutes (or 158 seconds). At 18 aid stations, that's about 10 seconds per station which makes sense. I walked at 4 aid stations in 2021 based on pace slowing (1, 8, 10, and 22). So if my overall pace was equal at the HM mark, then it means I was actually running 10 sec/mile (or thereabouts) to achieve that with those aid station walks.
At this point all I can do is chalk it up to one of those days. Some days you get Dopey 2018 and Madison 2019 where you feel untouchable, and some days you get Lakefront 2017 and Madison 2022 where things just don't feel right. Emotionally, I'm ok with how it played out. Obviously I would have preferred to reach my goals, but like I preach the race is merely the victory lap. Some things remain outside of your control, and that includes how your body decides it wants to feel that day.
What's next? Next the focus turns to Princess 2023. G and I have the 5k together (Ms Marvel and Shang-Chi to save the day!), and then I have the 10k and HM. Last year the 10k was the focus of the training cycle. This time around, I'm considering the Princess 10k and HM more as "B" races. If the weather is ideal, then I'll be ready to race. If the weather isn't great, then no big deal and I'll have some races lined up afterwards to be the actual focus. I'm pencilling in the Madison Shamrock 10k (3/11-3/12), First Call HM (3/25-3/26), and Parkinson's HM (4/8-4/9). I'd like to focus on multiple races in the Winter/Spring cycle. After that, I'll swing down the training and do some races with G (BratFest 5k, Girls on the Run 5k, and Hot2Trot 5k). We'll see about Madison 2023. I want to see how the spring season goes, and then I'll think about what/if happens with Madison 2023. The thought at the moment is to race the marathon again, but change the pacing strategy. Instead of trying to run something in the 3:05-3:10 range. Instead aim directly at the 3:14 PR from 2017. And then if I can pick up the pace late, then so be it. We'll see. A friend on Strava shared the IAAF Canova Book so I've got some reading to do. I feel like the Canova plan worked well, and I don't think that was necessarily the issue with the race day performance.
So that's the 2022 Madison Marathon recap. Thanks for reading and following along! To Infinity and Beyond!
Prediction Game
My Prediction
My Strategy
Final Weather Forecast
Let's start with Saturday. On Saturday, I did the Western Australian carb loading procedure as planned. I was aiming for 11-12 g carbs / kilogram body weight. I weighed in at 178 pounds which was roughly where I expected to be. I was 175.8g for last year's Madison Marathon, was 170 pounds at the Madison HM in 2019, and was 167 pounds at my PR at Lakefront 2017. The carb loading went great and wasn't an issue. I added the timing breakdown to the Strategy post, but I ended up consuming 983g carbs which was 12.2 g/kg bw. Overall, I felt good coming out of Saturday. I headed to bed around 8:00pm.
I woke up at 3:45am and with a planned awakening at 4:00am I just decided to get up. My body score was only 50, as my Garmin didn't think I slept all that well. It seemed fine enough to me (7.5 hrs and 2 hrs of REM). For reference, my Body Score prior to the Princess 5k was 51, prior to Princess 10k was 47, and prior to Princess HM was 41. The Body Score was 49 prior to Madison 2021 (but was 80 the day prior). I headed downstairs and ate a toasted bagel with peanut butter and a banana by about 4:15am. I also drank a Liquid IV and in total drank about 16oz water. I headed back upstairs and showered and got ready. The plan was to leave at 5:30am, and everyone was on time and out the door. I had prepared all my stuff for leaving on Friday/Saturday night and so the morning was stress free.
We took the short drive over to Madison (about 25 min or so), and then parked in an underground parking spot. I had taken with me both sets of arm warmers (smart wool vs old socks) and decided on the old socks on the chance I would take them off and dispose of them mid-race. Additionally, I took both my Alphafly and Next%2 with me in case I didn't like how the Alphafly fit on race morning. So right after we parked, I slipped the Alphafly shoes on and they felt good. So I was ready to rock. Everyone grabbed everything we needed from the car and then we made our way to the Capital Square where the race was being held.
In year's past Starbucks opened at 6:00am on race day. But they weren't open this year, nor was anyone even getting the store prepped for opening. We shuffled over to the other coffee shop on the square (Collectivo) and confirmed they didn't open until 6:30am. There were a few gusts of strong wind which took me by surprise since we weren't suppose to have much of a wind for the race. We continued on our way and found the portas around 6:15am. I used the restroom for what was to be the last time approximately 2 hours after eating and drinking. I met up with Steph and G as we kind of just hung around the porta area. Last year I had the sudden urge to go one last time late in the process and this year I wanted to be within view shot if that came up again. I started doing some stretches around 6:20-6:30 or so. Wrapped up the stretches and then headed back to the portas again. Came back out and did some last check-ins on the clothing choices. As we were about to head to the starting line, I decided to try the portas one last time and used it for a third time. Not the usual routine, but I'm glad I stuck around.
We headed to the starting line around 6:45-6:50am. I was still wearing my winter jacket and sweatpants. I slammed my Maurten 320. When we finally arrived at the starting line, I disrobed my jacket/pants and was left with my tank top, old sock arm warmers, headband, light gloves, and shorts. I said goodbye to Steph and G, and then got in the starting chute. I made my way through the crowd towards the front-ish area tucked in with the 7:00-8:00 min/mile projected pace. I met up with a runner, Griffin, whom I had helped train for last year's Madison Marathon, and again for this year's race. We went over some last minute strategy. We're of similar fitness level (Mile and 5k PRs are similar), but he lacks a ton of data in the 10k or HM races. So we decided to be conservative for him and aim for a 3:15. If he was feeling good late, then open the legs and see what happens. They sang the National Anthem, and then we were running behind on the race and so within about 10 seconds of the national anthem finishing the guy on the microphone was starting the countdown. And then we were off.
Conditions -
Clear, Wind 7mph to 13mphStart: Temp+Dew = 27°F + 20°F; FL - 19°F
End: Temp+Dew = 31°F + 21°F; FL - 19°F
The weather ended up being pretty much as predicted. It was about a 19F windchill, sunny, and the wind wasn't all that bad.
I paid attention to my splits, and made adjustments to split goals along the way based grade adjusted pacing calculations done pre-race (see Strategy). Going into the race, I felt like I had a slim chance of a sub 3:05 BQ and a pretty good chance of a sub 3:14 PR. I thought something around 3:08 was going to be the most likely outcome.
Mile 1 - 7:10 (GAP 7:17) - Est. Finish 3:08:59
Things felt decent right at the start. There's a short uphill that I was fairly conservative on. This is a place where lots of people tend to be flying by you despite being at an appropriate pace. After the short uphill is the longer downhill. It's not terribly steep (-3 to -7% grade), but it does exact a toll if you take it too aggressively. At this point I was just trying to settle in and find my groove. At times the Madison roads can be quite cambered (even more so than at home). So it's always about trying to keep the long term in mind. I believe at one point I looked down and saw something in the 7:25-7:35 range for average pace. Given this was likely a net negative GAP mile, I did want to see me in the sub 7 area. But I didn't really let it bother me since I knew it was early and I just wanted to settle in to a groove. I ended up finishing the first mile in 7:10. A little off the goal, but I was ok with it. Nothing was hurting which was the important early phase of running goal.
Mile 2 - 7:21 (GAP 7:21) - Est. Finish 3:11:24
Right after the end of the first mile was the first aid station. Last year this was a cluster because of the 3:20 pace group. They went out super aggressively, and it made getting to the aid station a little more trouble since I found myself on the opposite side of the group. But this time around, I didn't have any issues with them. My goal was to take in two waters at every aid station under the assumption they'd have about 3 oz per cup. More often than not, the cups had more than 3 oz. But what took me by surprise at the first aid station, and it probably shouldn't have, was the layer of ice on the water in the cup. As soon as I tried to drink it a shard of ice tried to make its way down my throat. I was like, whoa, that's not a good idea while trying to run. So I quickly slowed down and took the water down without choking myself out with ice. It's at this point I decided that I would probably walk all of the aid stations. It's likely they're all going to have ice covered cups. I also thought that the brief reprieves of walking could help serve me later in the race. So I walked for a bit, drank the water, and then got going. My Garmin 245 (or maybe the Garmin Connect had an update) now includes estimated for walking duration, but it didn't capture anything here. Based on the pace, it was about 10-15 seconds or so. I started moving again, and was anticipating the pace of the mile to be somewhat slower. My hands were cold, but tolerable. Otherwise the rest of my body was doing alright. I hit up the second aid station, and it was much the same as the first. I got one cup, walked through it, and there was ice in the cup. I crossed the two mile mat at 14:40. Last year I crossed at 14:42.
Mile 3 - 7:01 (GAP 6:58) - Est. Finish 3:09:17
Things were starting to settle into a groove once we entered the arboretum. I also noticed at this point in the race that the crowd around me wasn't quite like the crowd from 2021. Where last year there were a few other runners making some noise or being boisterous or setting off at blazing paces, this time around the group seemed more business like. More subdued and everyone was there for a reason. I jockeyed back and forth with a few other runners in this section. I'd be running with them, and then I'd stop for water, and then slowly reel them back in. Garmin shows me being a little too quick on the pace in this mile. I was hovering around the 6:30-7:00 area when I was actually running. And that explains how I could manage a 7:01 mile despite having a 10 second or so walking break for water. HR wise though I wasn't in a bad place. Last year's race was average of 145, and it would appear this mile's average HR was 145. So I was in the right place all things considered. I can't remember when it was, but sometime when I was in the arboretum (Mile 2-5) is when I had my first bit of real adversity. The right Alphafly shoe kept hitting my left foot ball of the ankle. This happens from time to time when I'm running, and it's why I wear quarter socks. But it was happening a little more frequent than I would expect. In post-run analysis, the Alphafly back end is just a tad wider than the Next%2. I didn't have any issues with this though in my one trial run with them. Each time it would make contact with my ankle it was a little more painful than the last. While I'd like to say this was a reason for the eventual slowdown, it wasn't that big of an issue. If I had tried to maintain paces later, then maybe it would have been. But that's an unknown. When I finished the Mile at 7:01, things were feeling good and I felt like I had found my groove.
Mile 4 - 7:19 (GAP 7:07) - Est. Finish 3:10:12
This was my first pre-marked GAP uphill mile. I was expecting a +11, and it ended up being a +12. I took it nice and easy and made sure I wasn't too aggressive on the uphills. I continued to jockey with the same few runners, but each time I stopped at the water stations and they didn't they would get a little further ahead of me. But I was fine with that since I was aiming to be a touch slower on this mile anyways. During a downhill section it appears I was doing about 6:00-6:10 pace for a few moments. When I came in at 7:19, I knew I had done well being appropriately paced.
Mile 5 - 6:53 (GAP 6:50) - Est. Finish 3:08:27
This was the end of the arboretum portion of the course. I knew towards the tail end of this mile was going to be a nice big downhill outside of the Nakoma golf course. I came out of the Arb feeling pretty good. We got some crowd energy on the exit, and then I bolted down the hill. Looks like I was doing about 6:10-6:20s down the hill. Cadence was good. HR was still good. Everything was feeling good. Ended the mile at 6:53 which was a good feeling.
Mile 6 - 7:00 (GAP 7:03) - Est. Finish 3:07:49
Felt like I was really starting to hit my groove here. I was eating up good ground. Body was feeling decent. Hit up the aid station sponsored by the local high school and they gave some good energy. Garmin says it took me 5 seconds of walking through this one. Pace was holding the 6:50s when I was actually running. The weather felt good. Sometime after coming out of the Arb is when my fingers felt normal again. Nothing on my body felt all that cold, but I had no desire to take the arm warmers off. Finished the mile in 7:00 flat and felt like I was headed in the right direction.
Mile 7 - 7:23 (GAP 7:11) - Est. Finish 3:08:48
Alright, we're at our second pre-marked GAP uphill. It was planned to be a +13 and ended up being a +12. So I aimed to be slower through this mile. I had my first drink of Tailwind concentrate. I hit the 10k mark in 44:07. In 2021, I hit that mark in 44:55. So I was only 2 second ahead after 2 miles, but by 10k I was now nearly 50 seconds ahead of 2021. The official 10k split of 44:07 was placing me between a 3:05-3:07:30 finish. I hit the aid station, and then I made my way up the hills. I remember this being a time when I hit my ankle several times with my right shoe. It wasn't feeling great, but wasn't slowing me down. But I was trying to consciously swing my right foot out a touch more to keep it from making contact. We made our way on to the bike path after the hills, and then things settled in again. I wrapped the mile up at 7:23, and I was pleased with the effort.
Mile 8 - 7:11 (GAP 7:09) - Est. Finish 3:08:53
This mile is a bit of an up and down. We continued on the bike path. I saw some people cheering. A baby eating some food while in a stroller. When we exited the bike path there was a decent crowd cheering people on as we crossed in front of Camp Randall. I remember this was when "Alan" passed me last year, and then I would later pass him. But like I said earlier, this group of runners while spread out more so than 2021, just felt different. I was feeling good. I knew the Mile 8 aid station was coming up so I took my Maurten caff gel a bit early so I wouldn't get stuck trying to eat in the middle of the aid station. I wrapped the mile up in 7:11.
Mile 9 - 7:15 (GAP 7:18) - Est. Finish 3:09:08
As I came out of the 8th mile aid station I passed one of the places I used to live when I lived on campus. We lived there from 2009-2011 before we bought our house. A girl was cheering outside, and I yelled to her that I used to live there. She seemed perplexed, but whatever. I was cruising along old University. I saw a cop giving out fist bumps so I obliged. We turned down a short down/uphill and then headed towards Mile 10's Observatory hill. This was probably the first mile that came in and surprised me a little. I didn't feel like I was running 7:15s and that felt a little slow to me. I was running mostly in the 6:50s according to the Garmin pace. The aid station costed me about 12 seconds according to the run/walk data. So that makes sense in post-run analysis. I did about 7:03 pace if it weren't for the aid station.
Mile 10 - 7:43 (GAP 7:24) - Est. Finish 3:10:34
Alright, we made it to the third mile with a GAP adjustment. I expected a +17 and got a +19. The Observatory hill is quite steep (10-11% if Strava is to be trusted). So I slowed way down on the uphill. A guy passed me that looked a lot like a guy in my village that runs too. Our daughters are friends and we chat running whenever we see each other. He's faster than me (around 1:23-1:25 HM and near sub-3 M). He also regularly does 100+ mile weeks. I did realize after the race that it was in fact him. Once I got to the top of the hill I tried to regain my form. The problem with the uphill on Observatory is the downhill on Charter St. It is also quite steep (-11%) and is hard to control yourself on. It tends to beat me up and I tried to take it slow. So you can't make up for the uphill with this downhill section. I flattened out at the bottom of the hill and hit the aid station. The mile came in at 7:43 and I wasn't thrilled. It was slower than I wanted it to be, but also I knew I took the uphill slow in an attempt to save my legs for later. So I didn't dwell on it. At this point I looked at my GPS average pace and saw 7:14. I glanced at my cheat sheet and saw a GPS pace of 7:14 was around a 3:11 finish. I was ok with that, and carried on.
Mile 11 - 7:21 (GAP 7:17) - Est. Finish 3:10:52
I ate an Egel during this mile. We were running along University Ave. So there were a few more spectators out and about. Nothing terribly remarkable about the mile. This is the section of the course where we get some undulating rolling hills but everything cancels out on the GAP to make it "even". For the most part I was feeling ok, but things were starting to drag a little. When I finished the mile and saw 7:21s, I was getting a little concerned. Certainly didn't feel like I was trending in the right direction compared to earlier in the race. My energy levels weren't as high, the effort was still good, but I was starting to slow. There were no aid stations in this mile, so the pace was true.
Mile 12 - 7:29 (GAP 7:30) - Est. Finish 3:11:24
Continuing to fade in pace. This section of the course is hard because of the camber. I tried not to focus on it, but it did bother me. The Garmin shows that I stopped for 19 seconds on this aid station. So quite a bit longer compared to everything prior. The course was taking its toll on me. And as miles continued to clock in slower than the 7:14 mile pace average that I had been getting, I was starting to lose a tiny bit of motivation.
Mile 13 - 7:23 (GAP 7:23) - Est. Finish 3:11:39
Alright, this was a bit of an uplift on this mile. I came in at 7:23 pace and was feeling a bit better about things. I was happy to see the pace a little quicker and maybe we could stop the bleeding. There was an aid station that came in at about 11 seconds. So I was doing about 7:12 pace when actually running.
Mile 14 - 7:41 (GAP 7:38) - Est. Finish 3:12:26
I came out of the 13th mile feeling good. I hit the HM split at 1:35:15. That's an officially projected 3:10:30 finish. I'm good with that! Compared to 2021's HM split of... well look at that... 1:35:15. LOL, well at least I'm consistent. But that's not a great sign when I had gained nearly 50 seconds on 2021 in between Mile 2 and the 10k split, to turn around and completely erase that lead in 2022. It was also a little disappointing to have run a 1:34:00 HM split during my Canova 120 training run, and then turn around and run a GPS 13.11 split of 1:35:19 or so. Something doesn't add up there though. Because I was definitely hitting GPS splits before I was hitting course mile markers or timing mats, but whatever. At this point I was probably in line for a 3:10-3:11 finish if I could actually maintain pace for the remainder of the race. But I also suspected I was pretty close to the same point in the race as I was last year, and assumed if I faded by about 3-4 minutes on the back half, then I'd finish around 3:15 or so. Not what I wanted, but I'd take it. Here's the kicker though. I finished Mile 14 in 7:41. As much as the HM split was uplifting and I was ready to attack the second half, this mile split was a death knell. It definitely took the winds out of my sail for sure. There was an 11 second aid station in here, but that's still 7:30 pace. Looking back at 2021, we crossed the HM split at the same time, and Mile 14 was 7:21. I was 20 seconds slower through the same mile. So it was decision time. Do I buckle down and grind this out, or do I just admit today isn't my day and let it go. Honestly, nothing about a 3:15-3:20 finish excited me. I did that in 2021. 2021 was my return to running a marathon well after what were disappointing finishes between 2018-2020 (other than Dopey 2018). 2021 felt more like 2017, albeit not at a high level of fitness, but the finish was my second fastest and I was proud of that. I wasn't looking for the same type of moral victory in 2022. This wasn't meant to be a rehashing of my return to running marathons like 2021 was. I wanted 3:05-3:14. Not another 3:15 finish, and not another finish slightly slower than 3:15 based on how Mile 14 just went. So it's at that point that I shut it down. Marathons take a major toll on the body. Running a fast marathon relative to your fitness level takes a major toll on the body. Running a marathon when your body is fading hard and thus your running form is suffering can exact a very high toll. I wasn't willing to pay that price for a 3:15-3:20 finish. For a 3:05-3:14 finish, yes. I'll put myself through that. But not for a slower finish. I quickly accepted that reality and just set my body to cruise control. I would just run easy and not really worry about the pace for the remainder of the race. Just take in the sights and sounds as I rounded out the race. I only for a split second even considered just walking off the course, but ultimately I wasn't injured and could just cruise this one in to wrap up the training cycle.
Mile 15 - 7:42 (GAP 7:43) - Est. Finish 3:13:09
Mile 16 - 7:47 (GAP 7:36) - Est. Finish 3:13:54
Mile 17 - 8:02 (GAP 7:53) - Est. Finish 3:14:57
I believe it was during Mile 16 or so that Griffin finally caught up to me. I was expecting him to catch me eventually since he was aiming for a 3:15. He looked strong. I had a feeling he was going to be able to attack the back half of the race and possibly shave some time off the 3:15. He did. He ended up finishing just a hair above 3:09 with a very quick and strong finish.
Mile 18 - 8:08 (GAP 8:14)
Mile 19 - 8:17 (GAP 8:03)
Mile 20 - 8:33 (GAP 8:32)
Mile 21 - 8:35 (GAP 8:28)
Mile 22 - 8:58 (GAP 8:28)
Mile 23 - 8:39 (GAP 8:55)
Mile 24 - 8:33 (GAP 8:30)
There isn't much to say about these miles. I was just trying to enjoy myself out there. I was taking extra time to thank the volunteers and the spectators out cheering for us. I photobombed a few spectators who were taking pictures of themselves. I said hi to an adorable tiny puppy. Just super chill. That super uphill at Mile 21.5 was as aggressive as ever. The downhill afterwards though really destroyed my legs. Last year I was able to crush this downhill, but I had to be extra cautious going down this time as it was a little painful.
Mile 25 - 8:52 (GAP 8:52)
So I was coming down to the tail end of the race. Not much left to go now. I could see a younger guy runner ahead of me. First he was running, then he was slowing down, then he stopped running, then he sat down on the curb, and then by the time I got to him he laid down in the grass. I looked at him dead in the eye and asked him if he was ok. He was definitely conscious, but he didn't give me much of a response. This close to the finish line is not the time to see someone voluntarily sit down or lay down. So I looked for the next official person I could find. I saw a police officer at the intersection ahead and as I got closer to him he started to head to his car (probably to get warm). The timing wasn't great. He was across the street and I waved at him in his car. He waved back gleefully, but I made a point to point behind me. He got out and I told him that I was concerned for a runner that was laying in the grass. He told me he'd check on him and headed that way. Once I got to the next intersection I could see two med personnel chatting on their bikes. I told them about the runner as well and they jetted off to go check on it. I suspect he was fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. The whole situation completely took me mind off the running. I missed the Mile 25 notification, and when I looked down I was at 25.4 miles.
Mile 26 - 8:47 (GAP 8:29)
Finish - 8:42 (GAP 8:22)
Just an uphill, rounded around the outside of the capital square, up State street and then headed towards the finish line. Since I wasn't so focused on running I tried to keep an eye out for Steph and G. I saw my MIL at the corner (probably to give everyone else a head's up), and then I found Steph, G, my BIL, and SIL standing right before the finish. I decided to detour from the finish line and go give G a hug.
Then I headed to the finish line, and wrapped up the 17th marathon.
Final Time - 3:26:26
Overall - 140/1086 (12.9%)
Gender - 124/684 (18%)
AG - 22/79 (28%)
The final time was my sixth fastest of my seventeen marathons.
Once I got past the finish line I grabbed a water and drank it down. Then a volunteer offered me a mylar blanket. I jokingly asked him if it was cold enough to warrant the use of it. He looked at me very perplexed, and was like, yea, it's cold... LOL! I took it, but didn't feel the need for it. I wasn't all that cold despite it being only a 19F windchill. I headed over to the picture area and got a pic with my medal.
I headed through the finisher chute and got myself a brat and chocolate milk. Then I found the family again and asked G if she wanted to take some pics with the backdrop.
I let her wear the medal for the remainder of the time at the race. She earned it having to stand outside in the cold to see her dad finish. Thankfully, they hung out inside the Collectivo coffee shop for a majority of the time. We headed towards the car, and then we headed home. My fingers weren't doing great. They were pretty cold and shriveled up inside my light gloves. But other than that, my body was doing alright with the effects of the cold. It wasn't like I was overly shivering or anything. I wasn't that bad off at home either. I've definitely felt worse after finishing a marathon. My recovery hasn't been that bad, not that I want to get starting with training again any time soon. My quads are bruised which is a curious development, but don't know what's going on there.
So... why? Why did the race go the way it went? I sit here about 36 hrs later with more questions than answers. Cardiovascularly everything looks fine. My HR was never in a bad place compared to what I've done in prior marathons. I took walk breaks through aid stations to help keep myself fresher for later in the race (mostly because of the ice over the water cups). I felt fine in my clothing choices despite the cold weather. The Alphafly bothered my ankle early in the race, but once the pace slowed it wasn't an issue anymore. In total my watch estimated that I walked for 2:38 minutes (or 158 seconds). At 18 aid stations, that's about 10 seconds per station which makes sense. I walked at 4 aid stations in 2021 based on pace slowing (1, 8, 10, and 22). So if my overall pace was equal at the HM mark, then it means I was actually running 10 sec/mile (or thereabouts) to achieve that with those aid station walks.
At this point all I can do is chalk it up to one of those days. Some days you get Dopey 2018 and Madison 2019 where you feel untouchable, and some days you get Lakefront 2017 and Madison 2022 where things just don't feel right. Emotionally, I'm ok with how it played out. Obviously I would have preferred to reach my goals, but like I preach the race is merely the victory lap. Some things remain outside of your control, and that includes how your body decides it wants to feel that day.
What's next? Next the focus turns to Princess 2023. G and I have the 5k together (Ms Marvel and Shang-Chi to save the day!), and then I have the 10k and HM. Last year the 10k was the focus of the training cycle. This time around, I'm considering the Princess 10k and HM more as "B" races. If the weather is ideal, then I'll be ready to race. If the weather isn't great, then no big deal and I'll have some races lined up afterwards to be the actual focus. I'm pencilling in the Madison Shamrock 10k (3/11-3/12), First Call HM (3/25-3/26), and Parkinson's HM (4/8-4/9). I'd like to focus on multiple races in the Winter/Spring cycle. After that, I'll swing down the training and do some races with G (BratFest 5k, Girls on the Run 5k, and Hot2Trot 5k). We'll see about Madison 2023. I want to see how the spring season goes, and then I'll think about what/if happens with Madison 2023. The thought at the moment is to race the marathon again, but change the pacing strategy. Instead of trying to run something in the 3:05-3:10 range. Instead aim directly at the 3:14 PR from 2017. And then if I can pick up the pace late, then so be it. We'll see. A friend on Strava shared the IAAF Canova Book so I've got some reading to do. I feel like the Canova plan worked well, and I don't think that was necessarily the issue with the race day performance.
So that's the 2022 Madison Marathon recap. Thanks for reading and following along! To Infinity and Beyond!
lookingforsunshine
it never hurts to keep looking for sunshine
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2021
That is wild!
A win, in my book! One time I pet 29 dogs during a half marathon… it took me longer to do that half marathon that it took you to do this marathon haha.
Way to go, Billy! I think it takes great strength and bravery to just say this is not my day and to adapt to what you’re given mid-race. I’m very proud of you & G looks so cute with the medal! Props to her for standing in the cold! Hope you enjoy your recovery process— you have earned it.
SheHulk
off to the (runDisney) races
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2016
As always, you are a true role model ( can you have a role model who is younger than you?). You'll have an "invincible" day again for sure. It always amazes me how much detail you can remember from a race! I'm so zoned out I would never be able to keep the miles straight, even if I wrote it down right after. Thanks for the report.
Naomeri
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2019
I still don’t understand how you can run in those temps dressed like that! 
Great job on not giving in to the urge to quit and enjoying the back half of the race. It seems weird to write this, but it’s oddly reassuring when even experienced runners, who do everything right in training, have an off race day.
Great job on not giving in to the urge to quit and enjoying the back half of the race. It seems weird to write this, but it’s oddly reassuring when even experienced runners, who do everything right in training, have an off race day.
dis_or_dat
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2016
Marathons are such a beast. Sometimes everything falls your way, but I'd say most times any minor issue will become a Sisyphean effort. I was looking at your strava and noticed you were walking through your aid stations and wondered what was going on - yikes on the ice! I think you mentioned you were aiming for about a 7:10 pace but miles 3, 5, and 6 were pretty fast. Anyways, I don't have your experience but I generally train for a faster race but then run very conservatively. For example, I train for a 3:18 but purposely run a 3:26 which is comfortable and doable. I'd imagine training for a 2:55 to run a 3:05 would be painful. The only time I ran the pace I trained for there were many times it could have gone south but I was lucky and it was a half, not a full - there's just so little wiggle room.
Every body reacts differently to training methods, curious what you think about the Canova plan vs Hansons etc. now that you've done your race. I know you did a deep dive earlier and tried to account for fewer "hard" days and lower HR. Seems like you responded very well to it.
Every body reacts differently to training methods, curious what you think about the Canova plan vs Hansons etc. now that you've done your race. I know you did a deep dive earlier and tried to account for fewer "hard" days and lower HR. Seems like you responded very well to it.
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flav
Loving My Ears
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2014
Congratulations Billy on this Marathon and on the training leading to it. It seems that all the decisions you took on race day were made for good reasons. I particularly liked that you kept going, downshifting your goal from A to let’s enjoy and finish. That gave you the possibility to help another runner and to honour the people who came cheering for you. Happy 17th Marathon celebrations and may you have those invincible days when you need them!
azrivest
Chasing the rDream
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2020
I am always impressed by your intelligence and your maturity. You always take such good decisions in terms of training and running. Most runners would have pushed until the finish or until they had to quit. Even in the heat of the moment, you're smart enough to think long term.
Congratulations again
not only on the victory lap but on the whole 30 week training cycle
WillRunForPizza
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2022
I really admire your resilience! Looking at the post-race photos, you don't seem disappointed at all - instead you look really happy, especially celebrating with G. Awesome training, strategizing, and rolling with the punches! 
Baloo in MI
I don’t have to, I get to.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2015
Congrats Billy! I know not the time you planned, but still an incredible time!
I have to share how impressed I am with how you can shift your mind during the race, recognizing that it is not the day you planned for, accepting and then finishing in a positive space regardless. Truly inspirational. I could learn a lot from that!
That sub 3:15 is out there, you will get it!
I have to share how impressed I am with how you can shift your mind during the race, recognizing that it is not the day you planned for, accepting and then finishing in a positive space regardless. Truly inspirational. I could learn a lot from that!
That sub 3:15 is out there, you will get it!
DopeyBadger
Imagathoner
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2015
That is wild!
A win, in my book! One time I pet 29 dogs during a half marathon… it took me longer to do that half marathon that it took you to do this marathon haha.
Way to go, Billy! I think it takes great strength and bravery to just say this is not my day and to adapt to what you’re given mid-race. I’m very proud of you & G looks so cute with the medal! Props to her for standing in the cold! Hope you enjoy your recovery process— you have earned it.
Thanks! Certainly a PR in dogs for me at 1, so I've got something to strive for next time around.
Thanks! When I'm writing the race report, it's me reliving the moment. I look at the pictures, the course, the mile markers, and can relive those specific moments of the race. Certainly as the race goes on, the awareness wains some. This time around, there wasn't much to say about the stuff that happened late in the race.
I still don’t understand how you can run in those temps dressed like that!
Great job on not giving in to the urge to quit and enjoying the back half of the race. It seems weird to write this, but it’s oddly reassuring when even experienced runners, who do everything right in training, have an off race day.
Thanks! I don't really quite understand it either to be fair. I grew up the majority of my life in the south (Texas and Georgia). And my personal tolerance of the cold sometimes is a bit further out there than my body's actual tolerance (sometimes I might push it too far). But the finish line was a reasonable example to me that despite it being 19F wind chill and despite having run 3.5 hrs in shorts/tank top, when I finished and was walking around, I wasn't all that cold.
Yea, you can do every training run, nearly ever have a training go bad, and things still may not line up on race day. Conversely, I've had training plans where there were a few hiccups (like a missed LR late in the plan), and the race still goes wonderfully well. You just don't know sometimes what your body wants to do that day.
I'll get back to this one when I have more time to sit down and really dig into the data.
Thanks! I'd like to think the flexibility I've shown on race day is a sign of growth from where I was back in the earlier days of running. Despite Lakefront 2017 still standing as my PR, I had much higher expectations for that race. And it put me in a really foul and depressing mood about it for some time. I came to grips with it obviously after how well Dopey 2018 went, but also because after Dopey 2018 I was convinced I'd be able to hit that fitness level again in Fall 2018. It arguably took me until this training plan (Fall 2022) to actually get back to (or exceed) where I was at that point. It just didn't work out that way on race day though.
I am always impressed by your intelligence and your maturity. You always take such good decisions in terms of training and running. Most runners would have pushed until the finish or until they had to quit. Even in the heat of the moment, you're smart enough to think long term.
Congratulations again
Thanks! It's from learned experience. I've been down the other path. This time I chose to throttle down and enjoy my time. Celebrate the moment instead of dwelling on what could/should/might have been.
I'm quite happy about the 30 week training plan. I had what I believe to be a high level of fitness, and for the most part stayed injury free. I'll take the combination every time on the roll of the dice that race day goes better.
Thanks! It helps that I've been journaling for nearly seven years now. So being present in the moment during a race is much a priority as the race itself.
I really admire your resilience! Looking at the post-race photos, you don't seem disappointed at all - instead you look really happy, especially celebrating with G. Awesome training, strategizing, and rolling with the punches!
Thanks! I aim to set a good example to G. I wonder to myself, how would I encourage G to act in a situation like this? If I want her to act a certain way in a certain situation, then what better way to show her than to do it myself.
Thanks! It's not lost on me that even when it's not my day, and I decide to just relax for the final 12 miles (nearly half) of the race that I can still finish in 3:26. It took me four years of running just to get under that same finish time.
Like I said earlier, it's from learned experience. We put in so so much work. So much dedication on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. A marathon is such a difficult event because you really can only do a few a year at near maximal effort. Conversely a 5k, you could realistically race every 8-12 days or so for a period of a few months. So a marathon really forces you to push all the chips on the table, and then see what happens. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. It's honestly what keeps me coming back. Because I know I can conquer the marathon one day, it just hasn't happened yet. But I'm still confident that I'll continue to put my best foot forward in pursuit of that goal.
DopeyBadger
Imagathoner
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2015
Yes, training at an appropriate fitness level (3:05 for me and 3:18 for you), and then running it 8-10 min slower (3:12-3:15 for me and 3:26-3:28 for you) is totally doable. You'll feel better throughout the race, and you leave more margin for error. The opposite though doesn't work as well. Realistically, I can't train at a 2:55 (6:40 min/mile pace for 26.22 miles). My HM PR is 6:46 pace. So if I were to go out and do a 10 mile M Tempo run (6:40 pace), I'd be doing those 10 miles at a faster pace than what I can race 13.11 miles. It just isn't feasible. I'd need to instead get myself into 2:55 shape, and then run a conservative 3:05 marathon. But to be in 2:55 shape, I need to run a 5:20 mile, 18:17 5k (5:53), 37:55 10k (6:06), or 1:23:53 HM (6:24). To this point even on my absolute best days, I haven't shown any capabilities to actually hitting any of these times. MAYBE an outside chance at the 5:20 mile based on how I was feeling during the Spring 2020 training. But honestly, most of those target times are like one step in the down direction towards the other race distances (my 10k PR is pretty much the HM target time).
I didn't really have a goal time going into the race, and maybe that was an issue. I wanted to be free of expectations so that when I crossed with a 3:08, I wasn't thinking of "what if" on the 3:05. Or if I crossed with a 3:13, not thinking about the 3:10. By not setting any expectations on goals for me, I was free to allow myself to be happy with whatever time under 3:14 it ended up being. But maybe that backfired in that in certain key moments I let myself go too hot?
I had trained based on a 7:02 min/mile GPS marathon pace. Some training runs edged towards the 7:06-7:08 range as more reasonable. So the question is whether 7:02 was appropriate, or 7:10 was appropriate. Miles 3, 5, and 6 were run in 7:01, 6:53, and 7:00 (GAPs of 6:58, 6:50, and 7:03). If 7:02 was appropriate, then 7:01 and 7:00 certainly are too (as well as the GAPs of 6:58 and 7:03). But I think whether I was 7:02 or 7:10 shape, the 6:53/6:50 mile was a touch too aggressive.
Last year when I ran a 3:15, I ran mile 3, 5, and 6 in 7:12, 7:13, and 7:03. So that 5th mile is the one that really sticks out between 2021 and 2022.
I think this is a point that shouldn't be lost in the analysis. By walking for 10-12 seconds per aid station, I was having to run 10-12 sec/mile faster than goal pace the other times. I think instead of stopping at aid stations and running 7:05 average pace (6:55 actual pace + 10 seconds walking), I probably would have been better served running 7:15 average pace (7:05 actual pace + 10 seconds walking). And maybe that's a lesson I walk away from this race with. While I had hoped those short walking breaks in the aid station would help serve me later in the race, I may have harmed that ability by over running at times between the aid stations.
That particular stretch was in the Arb (Mile 1.75-5). Strava captures segments, so it allows me to do some comparisons between 2021 and 2022. Let's assume I was roughly right, and my fitness was about 15 sec/mile faster in 2022 than 2021 (based on the HRvPace info).
The whole piece was about 9 sec/mile faster with a HR 2 bpm less. GAP is a minus 4. So the 7:04 average pace is more like 7:00 pace on flat road.
The entrance portion was 8 sec/mile faster with a HR 2 bpm less. GAP is a plus 3. So the 6:54 min/mile is more like 6:57 pace.
The major hill inside the arb was 2 sec/mile faster with a HR 3 bpm less. GAP is a minus 15. So the 7:15 average is more like 7:00 flat pace.
This is the instant pace from Garmin GPS of 2021 (top) and 2022 (bottom) from the same section of the course (Mile 1.75-5).
In 2022, you can see I stopped moving twice (presumably aid stations) for about 10 seconds of so in each. I was doing about 6:50-7:10 pace from the 15:00-20:00 min marks in 2021 and 6:30-7:00 pace in 2022. So this section lines up with the first Strava segment comparison. I was running about 9 sec/mile faster average pace, but because of the stop at the aid station I was probably doing something more like 20-30 sec/mile faster pace. So if we were to point to a section of the race, this might be one that was too hot.
7:25 vs 7:04 pace through that mid-section.
I thought the Monroe Street downhill might be a place where I was too aggressive.
But the comparison between 2022 and 2021 shows little difference.
Whereas, within the trace we can see about a 15 sec/mile difference, and a 24 sec/mile difference in that one section.
Well let's start with other people first. I've had three people finish Canova inspired marathon plans thus far (you, @flav, and Griffin). All three met or exceeded my expectations based on how your training went and goals and such. So personally I was feeling pretty good about how others had performed on the plan, and was looking forward to my own matching performance.
It felt like the HRvPace relationship was less transient. I hit near peak HRvPace condition in late August (8/29) which came about 11 weeks prior to the race and 1 week prior to the start of the Specific phase. But Canova talked about this in either one of the papers I read or the presentation. While I hit peak aerobic conditioning, I wasn't prepared to actually race at that time. And I would agree with the assessment. If I go back and look at my comments during that period of time I felt like I was in a good place, but didn't feel like I actually had the endurance to maintain the pace. That was evident during the Canova 100 when I aimed to hold M Tempo for 100 min, and tapped out after 10 miles when I was slightly off pace (granted with GAP and T+D in mind I wasn't far off). But 3 weeks after that (and with 6 weeks to go) I ran the Canova 120 when I aimed to hold 97-98% M Tempo for 120 min, and essentially nailed it. Ran a 13.11 split in 1:34, and ran 7:14 pace for 16.6 miles. The HRvPace relationship went a little back and forth during this period of time, but for the most part it held for the remaining 11 weeks. When I look back at previous training plans, I was happy to hold that peak HRvPace relationship for far less time. So the fitness gained in Canova felt more long term. Not like a flash in the pan, but rather a new normal. Or for my Dragon Ball Super fans out there, instead of momentarily holding Ultra Instinct and getting a taste of it every now and then, I felt I had better mastered the technique and was holding it for much longer.
I was feeling good coming off the Canova 120, but there were a few warning signs that things were starting to trend in the wrong direction for the last few weeks. The 95% LRs were one example.
9/14/22 - 13 miles (1:36 hr) at 7:23 pace at 139 bpm and noted it felt comfortable despite running 90 min 85% the previous night.
10/7/22 - 14.5 miles (1:47 hr) at 7:23 pace at 139 bpm and had to work for it a little more despite doing a 60 min easy the previous night.
10/25/22 - 15 miles (1:51 hr) at 7:27 pace at 139 bpm and felt like I had to work more for it than the other two even with a day off the day prior.
I didn't like how I felt coming off the Canova Special Block on 10/16. But I also overran that by a little bit. The moderate pace bled faster a bit too much. When I came off that run it took a few extra days to feel normal again. So maybe that lingered through the final parts of the taper.
I felt way more poppy during the week of 10/31-11/6 than I did 11/7-11/13. So maybe dropped the training load a tad too much.
I've got some more Canova materials available to me now that I didn't have 31 weeks ago when I first wrote this training plan. So I want to go through that material and see how it differs from what I actually did. Maybe some tweaks here or there. Maybe blend the Hansons and Canova training plans together. Find pieces that I felt worked well. I liked the Canova progressions over time on the LRs. Going from long slow runs, and then midway through the training you drop back to shorter but faster long runs. I felt like that fit well with what I've seen work well for me in the past. I personally liked the flexibility having only 1-2 hard runs per week afforded me. While I rarely miss days on Hansons despite the 3 hard per week, it does become more difficult to manage when you have almost no flexibility. But conversely, you run hard on tired legs far less in the Canova plan. So there's a bit of a pro/con. And maybe I'd like to see more than one long sustained M Tempo (Canova 100) like in the Hansons plan (which has a long sustained M Tempo every week).
DopeyBadger
Imagathoner
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2015
Oh I guess there is one other thing, I'm not completely sold on the idea that the Alphafly are the right race shoes for me. Now that Madison is over, I'm going to work them into the rotation a bit more to get a better idea about them. I wonder if that played some small part in how things played out on Sunday as well.
lookingforsunshine
it never hurts to keep looking for sunshine
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2021
I feel like it isn’t normal for the shoes to hit your ankles but I also have never run in special running shoes like those so I don’t know. I can’t imagine that helped though.
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