To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[DopeyBadger]

Is this where you keep your yearly supply of giant fritter donuts?

Mmmmm.... only a few days....

I spy with my little eye... a HUSKER "N" on your top shelf! GO BIG RED!

How'd that get there?!?! I believe that's from the first UW v Neb game at Camp Randall after they joined the Big Ten (also first Big Ten game for Neb).

 

[run.minnie.miles]

Ahh yes. I remember that game. Fun fact, my last year at the U was our first year in the Big 10.

 

[roxymama]

Mmmmm.... only a few days....

Now that's will power!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Ahh yes. I remember that game. Fun fact, my last year at the U was our first year in the Big 10.

Fun! Glad to have you in the conference. So we can beat up on you....

Now that's will power!

Almost there....

On another note, 10 day weather for Hot2Trot



Thank goodness the race isn't this weekend... Those are some boiling temps for mid-June in WI. Looks like I've got clouds, T+D of 122, and 7mph wind. Given the other days, I'll take it!

 

[Declanb]

It was a nice anniversary dinner. Long story with lots of back story (her sister/husband actually were present at part of our honeymoon in Las Vegas) about how her family always seems to show up at anniversaries/celebrations of our marriage. Well during the dinner, her grandparents showed up yesterday. So, lol par for the course I guess.

Lol Know how that feels - Am 28 years married in July..

What is the weekend of the charity 10k?

Sorry Billy don''t know what happened with that post - obviously toolate at night and forgot to proof read it!
it's June 25th and July 23rd.
On another note did the Thursday Tempo run this morning - was nervous about it as it is quite a quick pace for me for a training run. Went well I feel, took a lot out of me but now (16 hrs later) I'm ok, tired body but not too bad. Pace went ok - Total time was 1:37:21 Vs 1:36:01 - I was about 7 secs slower than Tempo pace for the duration of The Tempo section. For the whole workout, Ave HR was 152 (Max 176) Ave Cadence 168. One thing we've not mentioned before is the elevation gain during runs, this run was a 149Mtr gain... Also What about nutrition on these runs now that some are 1Hr + ?? should I bother yet?
Another point of interest, I read your comments earlier about geting up at 4:30am so you could run at 6:30am - For me I was up at 4:30 this morning so I could get out the door before 5am to finish up for 6:30 ish as I leave for work by 7:15 -Mid-week this becomes the norm 0 it;s a case of get up get dressed and get out, Do you think this effects performance? Should I eat before I run on these mornings?

 

[FFigawi]

Catching up on your Monday recap...10.5 hours of sleep! That's the dream right there!
Carrying 66oz of water is kind of like the equivalent of in baseball when you're on deck and swinging with a really heavy bat right? And then when you get your lighter bat it feels easier? Maybe?

It doesn't work in baseball. Hope it does for running.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-theory-strikes-out-weighted-bats-dont-quicken-the-swing-1495791007

 

[DopeyBadger]

Sorry Billy don''t know what happened with that post - obviously toolate at night and forgot to proof read it!
it's June 25th and July 23rd.

Any chance I could convince you to run Saturday and Sunday those weeks? Just push the Saturday long run to Sunday and do the 10k charity races slowly (I think you said a 6 min/km pace) on Saturday. Since the 10k would then fall pretty slow on you pace spectrum we wouldn't need to make any other changes. Otherwise, I can come up with an option B.

On another note did the Thursday Tempo run this morning - was nervous about it as it is quite a quick pace for me for a training run. Went well I feel, took a lot out of me but now (16 hrs later) I'm ok, tired body but not too bad.

Sounds good!

Pace went ok - Total time was 1:37:21 Vs 1:36:01 - I was about 7 secs slower than Tempo pace for the duration of The Tempo section.

I can live with a touch slower.

For the whole workout, Ave HR was 152 (Max 176)

That seems to be in the general range. I think our HR metrics were similar (rHR of 45-50 and max of 177) and my marathon pace tends to be 149-152.

Ave Cadence 168

How tall are you? Given the pace, I'm surprised the cadence is so low. I would venture to guess over time if you can get this up a bit you'll find it to feel more comfortable. More in the 180+ range, but of course take this transition slowly.

One thing we've not mentioned before is the elevation gain during runs, this run was a 149Mtr gain

Looks pretty close to what I normally do at a similar distance. What's the goal race elevation profile like? Are these training runs similar or dissimilar?

Also What about nutrition on these runs now that some are 1Hr + ?? should I bother yet?

Now that you're pushing the 90 min threshold on training runs, you can certainly start incorporating carbs while running. Just limit it to the runs over 90 min.

Another point of interest, I read your comments earlier about geting up at 4:30am so you could run at 6:30am - For me I was up at 4:30 this morning so I could get out the door before 5am to finish up for 6:30 ish as I leave for work by 7:15 -Mid-week this becomes the norm 0 it;s a case of get up get dressed and get out, Do you think this effects performance? Should I eat before I run on these mornings?

If you're doing a longer run (over 60 min), then I think it would be wise to have something. Maybe a banana or a gel (something easily digestible). So for instance, on your 6/15 run (11.5km Tempo) you could consider taking a gel/chew/banana prior to starting and then something during the run as well. That's something I do when I've got a hard run mid-week but I've got to squeeze it in in the morning. Otherwise, my preference is a normal running breakfast (PB bagel and Banana) about 2 hrs before starting. I've tried to cut that window down with the same breakfast and it doesn't work for me.

 

[Declanb]

Any chance I could convince you to run Saturday and Sunday those weeks? Just push the Saturday long run to Sunday and do the 10k charity races slowly (I think you said a 6 min/km pace) on Saturday. Since the 10k would then fall pretty slow on you pace spectrum we wouldn't need to make any other changes. Otherwise, I can come up with an option B.

Yes I think I can do that.

How tall are you? Given the pace, I'm surprised the cadence is so low. I would venture to guess over time if you can get this up a bit you'll find it to feel more comfortable. More in the 180+ range, but of course take this transition slowly.

I'm 6ft- 6ft 1" Ave cadence was 172 in the Tempo phase with a stride Ave of 1.17 Mtr, to get to the 180+ I guess it's shorter stride = higher cadence, But work towards this gradually..

Looks pretty close to what I normally do at a similar distance. What's the goal race elevation profile like? Are these training runs similar or dissimilar?

This is a quote for the website
"This is a 42.25 km Run in Longford, Ireland. The Run has a total ascent of 44.74 m and has a maximum elevation of 63.57 m." Am I wrong saying this looks Flat?

Now that you're pushing the 90 min threshold on training runs, you can certainly start incorporating carbs while running. Just limit it to the runs over 90 min.

Ok Will do. Any recommendations on what I should use and how much?

 

[Declanb]

If you're doing a longer run (over 60 min), then I think it would be wise to have something. Maybe a banana or a gel (something easily digestible). So for instance, on your 6/15 run (11.5km Tempo) you could consider taking a gel/chew/banana prior to starting and then something during the run as well. That's something I do when I've got a hard run mid-week but I've got to squeeze it in in the morning. Otherwise, my preference is a normal running breakfast (PB bagel and Banana) about 2 hrs before starting. I've tried to cut that window down with the same breakfast and it doesn't work for me.[/QUOTE]
Ok will work with that - Thanks.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Yes I think I can do that.

Awesome! Then let's plan for that.

I'm 6ft- 6ft 1" Ave cadence was 172 in the Tempo phase with a stride Ave of 1.17 Mtr, to get to the 180+ I guess it's shorter stride = higher cadence, But work towards this gradually..

I think it will help.

This is a quote for the website
"This is a 42.25 km Run in Longford, Ireland. The Run has a total ascent of 44.74 m and has a maximum elevation of 63.57 m." Am I wrong saying this looks Flat?

That seems pancake flat. Try using this site and mapping some portions of the course yourself. It looks like it works in the Longford, Ireland area.

https://www.gmap-pedometer.com

Ok Will do. Any recommendations on what I should use and how much?

I think we'll have a clearer picture after your new VO2max test. But I think one of the keys is taking in enough liquids to absorb the carbs. For every 2g of carbs you need to consume 1 oz of water. The water doesn't have to be consumed at the same time, but rather you need the water "on board" which means within the last 20-30 minutes (and water does not equal gatorade, since gatorade already has carbs and thus is already isotonic). For 90 min runs, I personally take 37 g carbs (one E-Gel) and for runs at 120-150 minutes I take 2 E-Gels. I tend to take them no closer than 30 minutes of the end of the run (because otherwise the effects won't be fully realized). Remind me of your most recent VO2max and I can give you a rough estimate.

 

[michigandergirl]

The secret to the speed isn't the dryer sheets... It's in the brown box on the top shelf...

Okay, I'm dying to know what's in the brown box!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Okay, I'm dying to know what's in the brown box!!

Lol, light bulbs!

 

[Declanb]

That seems pancake flat. Try using this site and mapping some portions of the course yourself. It looks like it works in the Longford, Ireland area.

It was too good to be true! when I dug into it a little I discovered that the elevation gain is actually 133Mtrs.

I think we'll have a clearer picture after your new VO2max test. But I think one of the keys is taking in enough liquids to absorb the carbs. For every 2g of carbs you need to consume 1 oz of water. The water doesn't have to be consumed at the same time, but rather you need the water "on board" which means within the last 20-30 minutes (and water does not equal gatorade, since gatorade already has carbs and thus is already isotonic). For 90 min runs, I personally take 37 g carbs (one E-Gel) and for runs at 120-150 minutes I take 2 E-Gels. I tend to take them no closer than 30 minutes of the end of the run (because otherwise the effects won't be fully realized). Remind me of your most recent VO2max and I can give you a rough estimate.

Not sure how to get this.. Had a Full Fitness test done in May '15 and the report said 56.5 - My Garmin Connect profile shows 53 - is there a way for me to test it?

 

[DopeyBadger]

It was too good to be true! when I dug into it a little I discovered that the elevation gain is actually 133Mtrs.

Not quite pancake flat, but not terribly hilly either. I'd say you should continue to train on your normal semi-hilly route.

Not sure how to get this.. Had a Full Fitness test done in May '15 and the report said 56.5 - My Garmin Connect profile shows 53 - is there a way for me to test it?

Since those two numbers are so close, I think it's reasonable to believe they are accurate. I think we'll use 54. The only other piece I need is your body weight.

 

[Declanb]

Not quite pancake flat, but not terribly hilly either. I'd say you should continue to train on your normal semi-hilly route.

Cool!

Since those two numbers are so close, I think it's reasonable to believe they are accurate. I think we'll use 54. The only other piece I need is your body weight.

Body weight 178-180lbd

 

[DopeyBadger]

@Declanb

If we've got your VO2max right, then your goal pace of a 4:00 marathon is 63% VO2max.



This puts your estimated glucose deficit (based on a normal male storage of glucose in the leg muscles and liver) at 32.4 grams per hour (and thus minimally 16 oz of water). So I think that's a great place to be for training purposes on runs longer than 90 minutes. See how you tolerate that.

 

[DopeyBadger]

5 Days to Go (Blazing sun!)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

5/30/17 - T - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
5/31/17 - W - 2 mile WU + 6 x 4 minutes @ I pace w/ 3 min RI + 2 mile CD (1/6)
6/1/17 - R - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
6/2/17 - F - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
6/3/17 - Sat - 12 miles @ 7:42 min/mile (11/11)
6/4/17 - Sun - 7 miles @ 8:04-9:01 min/mile
6/5/17 - M - OFF

Total (training) mileage = 48.4 miles
Number of SOS intervals within pace = 12/17 (71%)

Monday was our Anniversary Day!

Tuesday was an easy day. T+D of 121 and cloudy

Wednesday was one of the last hard speed days and was time to celebrate Global Running Day.

2 mile WU + 6 x 4 minutes @ I pace w/ 3 min RI + 2 mile CD

Was excited to give I pace another try today.

I pace = 6:04 min/mile + 2.5% adjustment = 6:11 min/mile
I window = 6:06-6:16 min/mile

The T+D was 125 (80 + 45) with no wind and full blazing sun. I decided to give my new Columbia arm cooling sleeves a try. The hope is that they help reduce skin temperature and make running feel easier in full sun. I've seen some research that suggests the arm sleeves can help maintain performance in full sun conditions. I also took 60 oz of water with me. It came in handy as I just poured as much cold water on myself as I could tolerate.

I pace = 6:21, 6:15, 6:25, 6:24, 6:32, 6:19

It was a tough run overall. But that's nothing new for I pace. All things considered I'm happy with it. I was able to get the second interval and things definitely felt better than it has the last few weeks. The pace while not in window is very consistent between intervals and within intervals. I'm hopeful things are improving by pulling back a bit these last couple days after racing three straight weekends.

The arm sleeves worked ok. I think they were most noticeable when I poured cold water on them as they seemed to hold that temp just a little longer than my skin/hair would normally. The jury is still out as to whether the effect of wearing them is noticeable.

Only a little over a week left of training for the 10k, and then it's marathon training time.

Thursday was another easy day with a T+D of 126 with clouds. The pace was 8:46 with a HR of 129. I felt really thirsty throughout this run and decided it was time for a route change going forward to allow me to have more access to water.

Friday was another easy day with a T+D of 138 with partial sun. The pace was a 9:14 with a HR of 129. Just goes to show what an increase of 12 degrees on T+D and sun can cause even with a 30 second decrease in pace.

Saturday

Apparently, the sun decided to come out and play this weekend (88+ temps for 5 straight days). So I made the decision for a super early Saturday morning long run. Tomorrow's morning temps are in the mid-70s. But since my wife works today, it meant I needed to be home by 7am. So up at 4:15am, ate a gel at 4:50, and started running at 5:00am.

T+D of 123, wind 5mph, and most of the run before the sun peaked above the low clouds. It actually felt quite nice to have a lower temps (relatively speaking) with no sun run.

LR Pace = 7:35 min/mile + 1.5% adjustment = 7:42 min/mile
LR window = +/- 10 seconds

As previously stated, I'm throwing the first interval out because it includes me carrying 50 oz of water to my "aid station" at the park.

Comparing paces:
1st - 7:44, 7:39, 7:40
2nd - 7:38, 7:37, 7:39
3rd - 7:43, 7:38, 7:42

Very solid overall! with 11/11 intervals within window The overall average pace was a 7:39 min/mile with an average HR of 141. So the pace and HR are well within historical range of long run. Only a week until the conclusion of the Daniels 10k training!

Sunday was an easy day with a T+D of 141 with clouds. The pace was a 8:51 with a HR of 129. Seems like I'm pretty good at nailing that 129 HR regardless of pace (8:46, 9:14 and 8:51).

Thankfully the trend continued and the resting HR has dropped over the week. So I'm thinking this gives me a visual answer to what I already knew, which is after three racing weekends I needed to back off a touch.

 

[roxymama]

So is "Blazing Sun" your new running nickname?
"Sun Blazer" would be a pretty solid My Little Pony name to be honest. (we watch so much of that show now!)

Nice paces and it will be weird to not see the bunny map on your strava for a while. (yes, I'm gonna be back on strava starting tomorrow...yay!)

Hoping the sun decides to be kind to you this weekend because it is seriously no joke right now. It always feels like the window of "perfect" running weather is so small between the cold and the rain and then the oppressive heat.

MUCH LUCK!

 

[DopeyBadger]

So is "Blazing Sun" your new running nickname?

LOL! I thought about naming it "Blasing Sun" or "Blasing Son", but I passed on both. I'll stick with "Imagathoner" for now!

Nice paces and it will be weird to not see the bunny map on your strava for a while. (yes, I'm gonna be back on strava starting tomorrow...yay!)

Well you'll still see it for the most part:

Old route -


New Route -


New Speed Route (which is really the old old speed route) -

Hoping the sun decides to be kind to you this weekend because it is seriously no joke right now. It always feels like the window of "perfect" running weather is so small between the cold and the rain and then the oppressive heat.

Looks like it will calm down somewhat by next weekend. Yea, that window is like March and April, and that's about it for the spring season.



T+D of 137 with clouds and possible rain. I'm ready to make the pace adjustment based on whatever comes up.

 

[canglim52]

LOL! I thought about naming it "Blasing Sun" or "Blasing Son", but I passed on both. I'll stick with "Imagathoner" for now!



Well you'll still see it for the most part:

Old route -
View attachment 243884

New Route -
View attachment 243883

New Speed Route (which is really the old old speed route) -
View attachment 243882

The new speed route looks like a sitting dog!!