Tired of hearing the bad stuff

[TimandTanya]

As a huge fan of Disney, but a new member to the boards, I will keep this post as clean and to the point as possible.

I have been reading alot of posts, and personally, discouraged about the amount of negative feedback about Disney.

I remember going to DL and DW in the 70s and it was everything that Disney could be. Watching the Wonderful World of Disney on TV(i believe it was on NBC), on Saturday Nights, was also a joy. But as I grew older, I remember going to many theme parks, and they equalled the fun and magic, and sometimes surpassing that of Disney. Disney at that time was certainly not keeping up with the times, and needed a strong leader to take it into the future and beyond. You pessimists can say what you want about Eisner, but I for one love what he did for Disney. The parks and the company as a whole are stronger than ever, and the magic is bigger than I could have ever dreamed. If the company makes a decision, that is not in the best interest of Disney or it's guests, I have seen them time and time again, remove or change what they decide. These are people we are talking about, who are not perfect, but who in my opinion, want the company to make money to keep it going, for years and years to come.

When my family and I go to Disney, we go smiling the whole time, carefree and happy, and we take the time to make sure that those we come in contact with, are well thanked for making our vacation a memory that will most definitely, last a life time.

I had the fortunate chance of talking to a high executive with Disney one time, (he came in to my restaurant with his family) and he said something that I never forgot. He said that he got into personal relations because he loved people, and to see the smiles on their faces. He also reveled in the fact that his hard work made others so happy. He said he often takes time to walk the parks and listen to CMs, customers, and go for a ride or two on the Jungle Cruise(his personal favorite). The whole time no one knowing who he was. The one constant that he always saw, was the fact that people, from all over the world, were putting their differences to the side, forgot about politics, and world affairs, and were all doing the same thing. Having FUN with their families and loved ones, and sharing it with the world.

If a place like Disney can make it's corner of the earth a fun, friendly, memory builder, no matter who or what you are, or where you come from, I for one think that it has succeeded in something that the rest of the world is still struggling with.

I hope this post finds you and your families safe, happy and well.

 

[WDWHound]

I Too am a hige fan of Disney. It is for that very reason that I speak out against Eisner. For the last 10 years, Ei$ner has been systemmatically destroyiong the company I loved.

I will agree that Eisner was great for the first 10 years, when he had Frank Wells to handle the creative side of the business. However, with the death of Wells in the early 90's, Eisner began to run the company on a short term profit basis only.

You mention Disney World in your post. Do you realize that the Magic Kingdom has less attractions now than 10 years ago due to cutbacks? Have you been to Disneyland recently? Tomorrowland is a ghost town with very few open attractions, guests are getting injured and killed due to maintenance and training cutbacks and the park was litterally beginning to rot. The Tiki Room was an embarassment and litterally falling apart. Luckily, this trend is beginning to be reversed, but Eisner fought doing so for a very long time.

I don't like being pesimistic about the parks, and the past year has brought reason for new hope, but to fail to recognize the damage Eisner has done since Wells died is to put blinders on and not fight for the principles and standards that made Disney great.

 

[Sarangel]

TimandTanya -

Welcome to the boards. I'm sorry that you see only the negative side of the posts here. Most of us are serious Disney fans and take the same enjoyment you do at the parks, etc. The reason you see people complain about Eisner is that the choices he and his management team have made since Frank Wells died are not the choices we as fans would have liked to see. These relate (as WDWHound says) to scrimping on budgets, not supporting infrastructure, closing animation departments, etc.

The disappointment we tend to express here is that we (and perhaps I should say I here) don't feel that those choices *are* in the best interest of the continuing health of the Walt Disney Company. Disneyland is right now undergoing a *massive* refurbishment because Paul Pressler didn't think maintenance was important to the parks.

There are things that Imagineering has been pushing management for years to implement (Beastly Kingdom and the Disneyland Submarine Ride come instantly to mind) that management has said are too expensive. It is this kind of penny-wise and pound-foolish thinking that concerns me and that I think has weakened the Disney Company under Michael Eisner's leadership.

Yes, for the first 10 years, Eisner helped revitalize the company. But he's well on his way to reversing much of that energy, as you can see reflected in the stock price.

 

[raidermatt]

I'll also add that there are sort of two different standards.

One is simply Disney as a business compared to other businesses.

The other is Disney as compared to how and why Disney was founded in the first place.

Some will argue that Disney is failing at both, others that it is succeeding at both. But you'll find that when it comes to that second standard, very few, even most of Eisner's biggest supporters from the past, will claim Disney has not slipped.

Regardless, its important to understand the distinction.

 

[WDSearcher]

I would suggest that there is also a third standard -- based on personal expectation.

Some people just go to Disney because they love Disney and they don't really care about the business part. They don't care how much Eisner makes or what the stock price is; they don't notice chipped paint or a closed attraction -- they go because they have fun and their kids have fun and they come back thinking its the greatest place in the world. The rest of it doesn't matter to them. They're invested in the Disney name only based on the emotions they have at that moment.

They, of course, aren't generally on THIS particular forum!

 

[raidermatt]

True... I left that part out for just that reason. There's only so many times we can go back and forth with:

Spaceship Earth rocks.

Spaceship Earth stinks.

Spaceship Earth is fun.

Spaceship Earth is boring.


Pick a park, attraction, show, restaurant, snack item, whatever, and you'll always find some who like it and some who don't.

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by WDWHound Do you realize that the Magic Kingdom has less attractions now than 10 years ago due to cutbacks?

I assume the OP's answer is no, she doesn't realize that, only that she enjoys her visits.

guests are getting injured and killed due to maintenance and training cutbacks

Would you like some cream with that hyperbole?

 

[BRERALEX]

Pick a park, attraction, show, restaurant, snack item, whatever, and you'll always find some who like it and some who don't.

I thought we all agreed Dinorama sucked?

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by DancingBear
I assume the OP's answer is no, she doesn't realize that, only that she enjoys her visits.

The OP stated that the magic was bigger and stonger than before. I was simply pointing out that 3 less attractions as compared to 10 years ago could be consider a reduction and weakening in the magic.

Originally posted by DancingBear
Would you like some cream with that hyperbole?

Hardly hyperbole. The investigations of the BTM accident showed a lack of training and improper maintenance as the cause. The death of a guest on the Columbia Dock a few years ago was shown to be the result of a lack of training for one cast member involved. The Space Mountain injuries when a coaster car derailed a few years back were shown to be from a lack of maintenance. There were litterally no accidents that could be traced to improper maintenance or training prior to Eisner's cutbacks. I believe there is enough evidence to at least reasonably agrue my position.

BTW: Welcome TimandTanya. I appologize if my post seemed a little rough. As you can tell, I am very passionate about this subject.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by BRERALEX
I thought we all agreed Dinorama sucked?

Actually, there were a few here who liked it. Not many, but a few. Hopefully they can be helped with counseling and therapy.

 

[Bstanley]

I recommend de-selecting your browser's 'auto-read' function...

I myself choose not to read all threads because they can degenerate at any moment into the two camps (i.e. The Big ME is a licentious dolt - VS - The Big ME saved the company) comparing each other's thought processes to the reproductive habits of the Sea Cucumber.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Bstanley
I recommend de-selecting your browser's 'auto-read' function...

I myself choose not to read all threads because they can degenerate at any moment into the two camps (i.e. The Big ME is a licentious dolt - VS - The Big ME saved the company) comparing each other's thought processes to the reproductive habits of the Sea Cucumber.

Actually, I only compare Eisners thought processes to the reproductive habits of the Sea Cucumber.

 

[Bstanley]

Would you like some cream with that hyperbole?

Hmm, Websters says Hyperbole is extravagant exaggeration.


1. People have died.

2. Maintenance and training had been cut-back.

3. Cal OSHA pointed out that maintenance processes and individual training needed to be changed in the cases where the deaths were involved. Disney agreed to the changes.


Perhaps you should keep the cream in your own refrigerator?

 

[DancingBear]

Okay, I concede that Disneyland's a deathtrap.

I'm actually surprised that LandBaron's not here yet challenging Sarangel and WDWHound on their statements that ME was good at first--a point he is clearly unwilling to concede.

As to this:

I myself choose not to read all threads because they can degenerate at any moment into the two camps (i.e. The Big ME is a licentious dolt - VS - The Big ME saved the company)

Can we visit both camps?

Back to the OP:

I was simply pointing out that 3 less attractions as compared to 10 years ago could be consider a reduction and weakening in the magic.

Is that really the count? I hadn't noticed. And my point was the OP, who has a long WDW history, apparently hadn't noticed either.

Which is my experience as well. We had a wonderful visit last month. I didn't notice any dirty bathrooms, wet paint signs, trashy sidewalks, burnt-out light bulbs or any of that sort of thing. Of course, I wasn't looking for any of that, either, but the point is that even though I am well aware of those complaints from these boards, my experience was certainly magical.

 

[raidermatt]

I'm actually surprised that LandBaron's not here yet challenging Sarangel and WDWHound on their statements that ME was good at first--a point he is clearly unwilling to concede.

He isn't the only one...

 

[KNWVIKING]

This has the makings of a good thread.

It's kinda shotgunned several topics into one OP. We've got ride count, safety,death & cutbacks, Good ME and Bad ME, Magic today versus Magic of tommorow, Car vs Car.......

Thanx for dropping in TimandTanya.

 

[TimandTanya]

I wrote the original post right before I left for work, and after coming home from work, I am quite surprised, as well as pleased to see the number of replies.

I agree wholeheartedly, that everyone sees things differently, and that tastes vary greatly. With compassion, understanding and empathy, we can all get along, and look beyond our differences.

I have learned a few things about WD and Eisner that I never knew, but, still have to stick to my original post, that there is, without a doubt, Many more positive things about WD than negative.

I'm just so excited to see that everyone remained passionate to their ideals and thoughts, and did not resort to name calling, and personal attacks, to make their points. (I have seen other board sites go that way)

I will leave you with a joke:

How many pschotherapists does it take to change a litebulb?

A. Just one, but the litebulb has to really want to change!

 

[crusader]

There were litterally no accidents that could be traced to improper maintenance or training prior to Eisner's cutbacks. I believe there is enough evidence to at least reasonably agrue my position.

Not true. There were always maintenance issues and accidents. Yes, none that cost a life which I will forever condemn so you'll get no argument from me. But we really tend to immortalize the past based on some books and other glory day type read.

I prefer to rely on more than a soundbite for information. Two weeks ago our local Inquirer ran a story about the opening day at Disneyland. Here's a 1955 flashback which opens with an eyewitness account of the dawning by the AP. (courtesy of Philadelphia Inquirer 10/17/04)

"An estimated 30,000 persons visited Disneyland today as the $17 million amusement park was opened to the pubic. .... A gas leak that forced officials to close part of Fantasyland Castle for an hour and 40 minutes was repaired.".............

The article goes on to say

Opening day in 1955 really was a disaster. Asphalt was still soft, trapping high heels. Rides broke down. Gate-crashers with phony tickets overwhelmed the place. Tomorrowland almost didn't open until, well, sometime beyond tomorrow. "Not much was here in 1955, McClintock (John) said, standing in today's Tomorrowland. It was very, very much a rush job: Over in Fantasyland....... "There was a boat ride here, which was pretty much a boat ride through nothing.......It was just a river, and as I've heard it described, piles of mud".

So my question is: Is this excusable and would this be acceptable today?

 

[manning]

I have learned a few things about WD and Eisner that I never knew, but, still have to stick to my original post, that there is, without a doubt, Many more positive things about WD than negative.

The concern of many is that the negative things are increasing and the positive ones are decreasing.

 

[Bstanley]

Huh ... so after all the thousands of pages of discussion it turns out that it all boils down to basic math - i.e. does the following resolve to a positive or a negative number?

...............ƒ(M+ðM)-ƒ(M)
.....lim.......--------------
ðT->0............ðT


where;

T = time

M = Magic