Tips: entitlement or earned?

[KigerKat]

I just did some googling...and I found that the proper definition of "gratuity" is an award (as for meritorious service) given without claim or obligation. I should not be obliagated to give a tip, not to mention how much.

DH and I do tip very well when we recieve good service. Unfortunately, I can only recall mostly bad experiences in restaurants. Those moments really stick out in my mind, and it would really make me even more upset to think that we had actually tipped those people. It doesn't happen too often, but it does happen. And we don't fault the server for things out of their control, but when we are ignored and disrespected - yes, it will affect their tip.

I'm not saying that anyone replying to this thread that is a server doesn't deserve every penny they have earned, I'm just saying they shouldn't expect a certain amount from each and everyone they serve, including those that leave unhappy (or in my recent case, miserable).

 

[imthatgirl]

That's what I thought.

you dont have to be a server to tip well. many people do it daily.

 

[Handbag Lady]

Here's something else to consider at WDW. We get discounts because DH works at the studio.

They changed it a few years ago so that when you use your discount, you automatically get 18% tacked on for gratuity. We think that maybe some college student CMs had been getting the discount and then not tipping. So, of course the poor servers need to make up the amount they are being taxed on, I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is that now, there is no reason other than common decency to be a good server to us.

Thankfully, we've never had to ask for the auto-tip to be taken off. But, we tip more than 18% so in our case, the servers sometimes lose out. And yes, we have often tipped way above and beyond (hello nice lady from Rose and Crown!!! You ROCKED!!!!) but sometimes we forget.

 

[Kycha]

...if I get poor service at a gas station, bank, store or on the phone shouldn't I be able to speak to their manager and have a portion of their pay removed for poor service?

And on the other hand, if you get exceptional service at a gas station, bank, store or on the phone you should be able to speak to their manager and have their manager give them a raise.

you dont have to be a server to tip well. many people do it daily.

Right. And I do tip well and I'm not a server. But it is the sense of entitlement that I have a problem with. You expect everyone to tip 15% and if someone doesn't give it to you, they should be ashamed. Did you ever stop to think there is a reason why you are tipped less than 15%? And it may not be just because your customer didn't know any better.

 

[imthatgirl]

Right. And I do tip well and I'm not a server. But it is the sense of entitlement that I have a problem with. You expect everyone to tip 15% and if someone doesn't give it to you, they should be ashamed. Did you ever stop to think there is a reason why you are tipped less than 15%? And it may not be just because your customer didn't know any better.

its either that they didnt know any better, that they dont have the decency to tip where it was deserved or that they dont have the money. (we are talking strictly about the guests at my tables because i know they got service that was above and beyond).
if you cant afford tip me for the service i am providing you, let me know ahead of time, i wont give you bad service, but i wont go beyond what is expected. i dont begrudge anyone wanting to have a meal out. but, let me know so i give you the basic service, bring your food and refill your glasses, etc. dont waste my time if you know ahead of time you cant afford to pay me.
many people dont know any better. they werent raised with the knowledge of how tipping effects the person that is serving them. i understand that.

if you are someone who just doesnt have the decency to tip, make your own food.

 

[Kycha]

its either that they didnt know any better, that they dont have the decency to tip where it was deserved or that they dont have the money. (we are talking strictly about the guests at my tables because i know they got service that was above and beyond).
if you cant afford tip me for the service i am providing you, let me know ahead of time, i wont give you bad service, but i wont go beyond what is expected. i dont begrudge anyone wanting to have a meal out. but, let me know so i give you the basic service, bring your food and refill your glasses, etc. dont waste my time if you know ahead of time you cant afford to pay me.
many people dont know any better. they werent raised with the knowledge of how tipping effects the person that is serving them. i understand that.

if you are someone who just doesnt have the decency to tip, make your own food.

Unfortunately though, it is not up to you to decide how much of a tip you deserve. Everybody's expectations are different. You may think you have given someone excellent service, while they think it was just average. OTOH, you are having a rushed day and can't give your customers your usual best, yet your customer thinks it was 5 star service and give you a fabulous tip. And unfortunately, with the way the economy is going, people will probably start to tip less. So, I think anyone expecting to receive anything more than a 15% tip will be sorely disappointed.

 

[imthatgirl]

Unfortunately though, it is not up to you to decide how much of a tip you deserve. Everybody's expectations are different. You may think you have given someone excellent service, while they think it was just average. OTOH, you are having a rushed day and can't give your customers your usual best, yet your customer thinks it was 5 star service and give you a fabulous tip. And unfortunately, with the way the economy is going, people will probably start to tip less. So, I think anyone expecting to receive anything more than a 15% tip will be sorely disappointed.

believe it or not there are great servers out there. i can honestly say i give above average service to every single guest. but, i work in fine dining. there is no option. i would also think i comes down to training. where i work you go through a month of training and if you even get one complaint youre out the door. theres a waiting list of people waiting to take your place. perfection IS the only option. of course its not like working at fridays where one server could have 7 tables and no bus boy, its much different than that.

of course youre right about the ecomony. which is why we are seeing more automatic gratuitees. its the restaurants only option really. if they dont do that they will have to start paying the servers. which i think we can all agree we dont really want. if the restaurants overhead goes up, so does the price of the food. so really if everyone wants to keep things like meal increases and auto gratuity to a minimum, pay your server.

 

[nunzia]

In the US, servers make 2.35 an hour. When I waited tables, my paycheck was 0.00 every week. Why? Because you declare your tips, and taxes are taken out of your hourly wage. Where I worked, servers had to declare beween 8-10% of their total sales at a minimum, regardless of what you actually made in tips. If you stiff a server, they will be taxed based on the total sales of your bill regardless of whether or not they actually got a tip. I'm not suggesting that there is a never a reason to stiff a server, but before you do so, speak with the management so they can be clear about what happened. Otherwise you just seem cheap, and the server is not required to correct his/her behavior. If you owned a restaurant, wouldn't you want to know why a server was stiffed? I know I would.

Some places for sure. But again, in Vegas, where i worked, servers made alot over minimum (union and not)

 

[nunzia]

my feeling is if a tip is supposed to be counted as part of their wage then the owners of the restaurant should pay them better and get rid of the tipping all together.

ahh..if only I could have! I owned a restaurant and would have loved to pay more, but my food costs and building costs and etc etc didn't allow me to do that. You can't overcharge the market. I paid my people more than the NM minimum, they usually made decent tips, but I wish I could have paid better.

 

[mel63]

2 more cents...

The 18% is to offset extra work. I am not saying all parties of 6 or more are extra work, but they usually are.
These are examples to reasons why some have a tip added in. These might not meant to fit everyone, I am just giving some ideas.
No flames, please.

Most groups of adults (6 or more) want separate checks. Trying to make sure everything comes out at the same time, and checking on refills takes more time. Not everyone drinks at the same speed, so you might go back more often to checks for refills. One may want a refill, you bring it, then maybe 2 more do. (this applies to families also). Plus more to carry to and from the kitchen.
With families, sometimes the kids leave a mess. Again, not all but some. There is more clean up with more people.

And just because the 18%(or whatever the tip amount added in is) is added in already doesn't mean you can't tip more for excellent service. I have done this many times.

As for discounts, tips should be calculated with the before discount amount, and before taxes. But it is appreciated after taxes (it is a nice "bonus").

Water. Even if you do not drink a soda or something other than water. please tip as if you ordered a soda or coffee etc. The server has to refill the water when needed and does not get tipped for it. If it automatically comes with a $$$$ dinner then don't tip for it, but ordering a water is not the same as not ordering anything to drink. But if that is the drink you order, and she does just as much for the glass of water as for the soda/lemonade whatever, compensate them. And I am one that usually has water.

For example..
A
$10.00 entree
$5.00 dessert
$0.00 water (refilled 3 times)
----------------------------
15.00
+ tax varies by state & area
-----------------------------
$3.00 (20%) tip

B
Same as above but with a soda $2.00
-------------------------------------
$17.00
+ tax
--------------
$3.40 (20%) tip

C
Double example B, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, and 2 sodas
-------------------------------------------------
$34.00
minus 10.00 BOGO entree coupon
--------------------------------
$24.00
$4.80 tip but should be tipped on the $34.00

But A server worked just as hard as B, shouldn't they get the same?
And C server should be tipped $6.80 not $4.80. She worked just as hard but the customer had a coupon.

NO flames please. I am just putting some thoughts out there. And I was using nice easy numbers that I could work without having to use a calculator

Most "industry standards" for tipping are a 15% minimum and it goes up from there. And most (not all) tip charts, the amounts are 15%, 20% & 25%.

 

[imthatgirl]

2 more cents...

The 18% is to offset extra work. I am not saying all parties of 6 or more are extra work, but they usually are.
These are examples to reasons why some have a tip added in. These might not meant to fit everyone, I am just giving some ideas.
No flames, please.

Most groups of adults (6 or more) want separate checks. Trying to make sure everything comes out at the same time, and checking on refills takes more time. Not everyone drinks at the same speed, so you might go back more often to checks for refills. One may want a refill, you bring it, then maybe 2 more do. (this applies to families also). Plus more to carry to and from the kitchen.
With families, sometimes the kids leave a mess. Again, not all but some. There is more clean up with more people.

And just because the 18%(or whatever the tip amount added in is) is added in already doesn't mean you can't tip more for excellent service. I have done this many times.

As for discounts, tips should be calculated with the before discount amount, and before taxes. But it is appreciated after taxes (it is a nice "bonus").

Water. Even if you do not drink a soda or something other than water. please tip as if you ordered a soda or coffee etc. The server has to refill the water when needed and does not get tipped for it. If it automatically comes with a $$$$ dinner then don't tip for it, but ordering a water is not the same as not ordering anything to drink. But if that is the drink you order, and she does just as much for the glass of water as for the soda/lemonade whatever, compensate them. And I am one that usually has water.

For example..
A
$10.00 entree
$5.00 dessert
$0.00 water (refilled 3 times)
----------------------------
15.00
+ tax varies by state & area
-----------------------------
$3.00 (20%) tip

B
Same as above but with a soda $2.00
-------------------------------------
$17.00
+ tax
--------------
$3.40 (20%) tip

C
Double example B, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, and 2 sodas
-------------------------------------------------
$34.00
minus 10.00 BOGO entree coupon
--------------------------------
$24.00
$4.80 tip but should be tipped on the $34.00

But A server worked just as hard as B, shouldn't they get the same?
And C server should be tipped $6.80 not $4.80. She worked just as hard but the customer had a coupon.

NO flames please. I am just putting some thoughts out there. And I was using nice easy numbers that I could work without having to use a calculator

Most "industry standards" for tipping are a 15% minimum and it goes up from there. And most (not all) tip charts, the amounts are 15%, 20% & 25%.

this is not the feeling of all servers...just wanted to put that out there.

 

[Oncemorewithfeeling]

I haven't read through this whole thread so I'm sorry if you have already answered this question but...

I'm just curious with all of these qualifications for receiving a tip, how often do you end up leaving a decent tip when you eat out?

. . . inattention to the needs of the table
. . . slow service
. . . not refilling water or drinks timely, and often
. . . not clearing the table promptly
. . . getting orders mixed up with other tables
. . . getting orders mixed up within our table
. . . not returning frequently enough to check on us (being busy is no excuse)
. . . not being pleasant
. . . cold food when served
. . . incorrectly prepare food (well-done steak when medium-rare was ordered)
. . . poorly presentation of food on the plate (if poor, server should address with the cook)
. . . dirty plates, silverware, glasses (the server should have checked these already)



. . . but, if their service is good, they get an adequate tip
. . . if their service is bad, they deserve what they don't get
. . . they also deserve to pay others out of their own pocket


NOTE: My answers may sound harsh, but when I go to a restaurant I expect a great service level. I don't care how many other tables the server has. It is his/her job to figure out how to serve us correctly for the money I pay. If they are short of servers by 20% and can't keep up due to the work load, I have not seen the server come out and say they will reduce my bill by 20%. We are majority holders of two restaurants and the servers can, and do, lose their jobs if they cannot service the guests well.

NOTE2: Some people say, "you can't expect great service always". OK. But, when should you? When the steak costs $12? When the steak cost $15? When the steak costs $25? How do you gage "when" you should accept sub-par performance?

 

[mel63]

this is not the feeling of all servers...just wanted to put that out there.

I was not meaning anything other what might be the thoughts behind the practice. I specified that they were some examples, but didn't fit everyone. They were just ideas.

 

[hhartill]

OK, I am a server in a "fine Dining" establishment in Pa and have been a server in multiple restaurants over many years. I work mainly large parties where the bill is 2k +. I only wait on 1-3 parties a day with other servers. I would not work without some sort of guarnatee that the tip will be there. The restaurant guarantees minimum 18%, we usually get more for excellent service. If I give bad service you can guarantee that the person paying will let management know and I will be fired. The guaranteed gratuity in my case is a guarantee that i will be paid a fair wage. What happens if a customer decides not to tip us? Do we ban that customer or fire them from ever coming to the restaurant again? Of course not. Not everyone knows how to tip and when we are dealing with large checks and the livelhood of the person working, it is best that the tip is included.
I congratulate the person who starts at 18% and works their way up for exceptional service, but take it from experience, not everyone feels that way. Half of them can't figure out 18% without a calculator.

In defense of Disney. The people on the Dining plan often think gratuity is included or never look at the price on the check to calculate what a good tip is, because it is prepaid. They NEED to do this.

We have spoken to and know servers at Disney and they hate it when they see disney dining customers. Could you imagine if tip was not included, the service would be awful. You're on an expensive vaca, tip as much as you can afford for the people who make it special.

 

[KigerKat]

of course youre right about the ecomony. which is why we are seeing more automatic gratuitees. its the restaurants only option really. if they dont do that they will have to start paying the servers. which i think we can all agree we dont really want. if the restaurants overhead goes up, so does the price of the food. so really if everyone wants to keep things like meal increases and auto gratuity to a minimum, pay your server.

Eating out is a luxury, no matter if it's at McDonalds, Chili's or a 5 star fine dining restaurant. The economy is going downhill, and a people are having to tighten their belts no matter where they go. It's wrong to include a standardized tip in the check, and if I ever see it on one of my checks I will definitely dispute it with the manager. And while everyone is entitled to their opinon, it's obvious that most of the people replying here would be upset if they saw such a thing.

And I can't believe that you would actually reduce the quality of service you provide your customers if someone told you they weren't going to tip you what you expected. Which means that your tip would directly influence your quality of service....just like quality of service influences my tip. Hmmmm....

 

[Mouse House Mama]

2 more cents...

The 18% is to offset extra work. I am not saying all parties of 6 or more are extra work, but they usually are.These are examples to reasons why some have a tip added in. These might not meant to fit everyone, I am just giving some ideas.
No flames, please.

Most groups of adults (6 or more) want separate checks. Trying to make sure everything comes out at the same time, and checking on refills takes more time. Not everyone drinks at the same speed, so you might go back more often to checks for refills. One may want a refill, you bring it, then maybe 2 more do. (this applies to families also). Plus more to carry to and from the kitchen.
With families, sometimes the kids leave a mess. Again, not all but some. There is more clean up with more people.

And just because the 18%(or whatever the tip amount added in is) is added in already doesn't mean you can't tip more for excellent service. I have done this many times.

As for discounts, tips should be calculated with the before discount amount, and before taxes. But it is appreciated after taxes (it is a nice "bonus").

Water. Even if you do not drink a soda or something other than water. please tip as if you ordered a soda or coffee etc. The server has to refill the water when needed and does not get tipped for it. If it automatically comes with a $$$$ dinner then don't tip for it, but ordering a water is not the same as not ordering anything to drink. But if that is the drink you order, and she does just as much for the glass of water as for the soda/lemonade whatever, compensate them. And I am one that usually has water.

For example..
A
$10.00 entree
$5.00 dessert
$0.00 water (refilled 3 times)
----------------------------
15.00
+ tax varies by state & area
-----------------------------
$3.00 (20%) tip

B
Same as above but with a soda $2.00
-------------------------------------
$17.00
+ tax
--------------
$3.40 (20%) tip

C
Double example B, 2 entrees, 2 desserts, and 2 sodas
-------------------------------------------------
$34.00
minus 10.00 BOGO entree coupon
--------------------------------
$24.00
$4.80 tip but should be tipped on the $34.00

But A server worked just as hard as B, shouldn't they get the same?
And C server should be tipped $6.80 not $4.80. She worked just as hard but the customer had a coupon.

NO flames please. I am just putting some thoughts out there. And I was using nice easy numbers that I could work without having to use a calculator

Most "industry standards" for tipping are a 15% minimum and it goes up from there. And most (not all) tip charts, the amounts are 15%, 20% & 25%.

I am sorry but I have to comment on this. I was a waitress. I never ever added a gratuity on. We had the option for larger parties but I never did it. Why? Because I always got amazing tips because I was a good server. It is not more work to take care of a table of 6. In fact I think it is a lot less work. Everyone is in one place! You mentioned that they might want 6 separate checks. Big deal. If they were sitting at 6 separate tables in your section you would have to do the same thing. Now not only are you getting to wait on a table with a potentially larger check (which could mean a larger tip) it frees up the rest of your section for more diners (again- adding to your tip potential). I think added gratuities for x amount of diners is a load of crap. We are a family of 6. We tip well. We tip extra good if the waitress is great. We should not be charged anything as a gratuity. That is our choice what to give. Maybe next time I should tell them we are 2 parties of three but we want to sit at tables next to each other. I am sorry but it annoys the heck out of me. Oh- and yes, one time I did go to the manager and have them remove the tip because the waitress was beyond terrible.

 

[hhartill]

That's ridiculous.
It's like everything else, a retaurant owner can include it in the paycheck but guess who is paying for it. The prices will go up because the cost of doing business goes up. The fact that you actually have some control over the cost of your meal is great. It also impacts the quality of the service whether you like it or not. If I am a great server and work for reataurant A but restaurant B will pay me more by guaranteeing tips, guess where I am going. I am not saying it is right, but I am saying that the best people will work where they will make the best money. You expect great service from a nice restaurant, if you hold the drive in Mc Donald's teen to the same standard then you are unfair.

Disney is not going to accept a sub par experience, the cost can come in your check with higher cost or it can come in the form of a guaranteed tip. Whatever the case you are paying for the experience.

If the economy is tough and you cannot afford to pay the cost, do not take it out of the peoples pocket that are serving you, choose not to go. It is not the servers lining their pockets, it is Disney. Complain to them that their prices are too high. Which by the way, i do not think they are, I cant go to the Jersey shore for the price we are paying for a Disney vaca in November.

 

[jboysen]

Eating out is a luxury, no matter if it's at McDonalds, Chili's or a 5 star fine dining restaurant. The economy is going downhill, and a people are having to tighten their belts no matter where they go. It's wrong to include a standardized tip in the check, and if I ever see it on one of my checks I will definitely dispute it with the manager. And while everyone is entitled to their opinon, it's obvious that most of the people replying here would be upset if they saw such a thing.

And I can't believe that you would actually reduce the quality of service you provide your customers if someone told you they weren't going to tip you what you expected. Which means that your tip would directly influence your quality of service....just like quality of service influences my tip. Hmmmm....

I have to say, if a custommer told me they were only going to tip me 10%, and at the same time another table told me they will tip me 20% you can damn well believe I'm going to give the 20% table better service. That is human nature. That is why waitstaff should give excellent service to all, but when you work in a resturant for awhile and you know the regulars and what they tip, I think most servers would agree you adjust your service to them. I'm not about to run my behind off for a couple that doesn't tip. So my good tipping customers suffer. I had that at a resturant I worked at for 4 years, after awhile nobody wanted to wait on this couple because they NEVER tipped and they were rude and demanding, Why waste my time, you get what you pay for, I don't cook the food, and basically they were just paying for their food.

 

[mel63]

I am sorry but I have to comment on this. I was a waitress. I never ever added a gratuity on. We had the option for larger parties but I never did it. Why? Because I always got amazing tips because I was a good server. It is not more work to take care of a table of 6. In fact I think it is a lot less work. Everyone is in one place! You mentioned that they might want 6 separate checks. Big deal. If they were sitting at 6 separate tables in your section you would have to do the same thing. Now not only are you getting to wait on a table with a potentially larger check (which could mean a larger tip) it frees up the rest of your section for more diners (again- adding to your tip potential). I think added gratuities for x amount of diners is a load of crap. We are a family of 6. We tip well. We tip extra good if the waitress is great. We should not be charged anything as a gratuity. That is our choice what to give. Maybe next time I should tell them we are 2 parties of three but we want to sit at tables next to each other. I am sorry but it annoys the heck out of me. Oh- and yes, one time I did go to the manager and have them remove the tip because the waitress was beyond terrible.

No flames please. AGAIN, these are ideas what might be the thought behind the practice. I am not even a server, nor have I ever been one. These are just thoughts.

Personally I tip very well. I like having someone do the work for me, and I compensate them for it. I would rather go to someplace that will serve me, then to make it myself, or even serve myself at a buffet. I tip what most would call well for regular service, and tip extremely well for excellent service.

 

[imthatgirl]

Eating out is a luxury, no matter if it's at McDonalds, Chili's or a 5 star fine dining restaurant. The economy is going downhill, and a people are having to tighten their belts no matter where they go. It's wrong to include a standardized tip in the check, and if I ever see it on one of my checks I will definitely dispute it with the manager. And while everyone is entitled to their opinon, it's obvious that most of the people replying here would be upset if they saw such a thing.

And I can't believe that you would actually reduce the quality of service you provide your customers if someone told you they weren't going to tip you what you expected. Which means that your tip would directly influence your quality of service....just like quality of service influences my tip. Hmmmm....

if the guests of the restaurant arent paying the servers for their service the restaurant has no choice but to start adding the gratuity. whether you like it or not. its the law that servers must be paid at least minimum wage. as a restaurant owner, if the patrons were not paying the servers what would you do? you arent going to raise your cost of food, right? no, youre going to start adding it to the check. its pretty simple.

wait...so its ok for you to say that you tip on quality of service, but not ok for me to say that if i know before hand im not being tipped that i wouldnt go above and beyond? can we say double standard? of course i would do my job and they would ahve great service, but why would i go above and beyond? for what?