Tipping in restaurants

[daisyduck123]

I have not read ANY of the replies, so I don't know what kind of turn this thread may have taken but I just wanted to say that my family's tipping habits have not changed due to the economy. If we can't afford to leave a 15%-20% tip, then we can't afford to eat out.

 

[Springs1]

But McD's and company--isn't the same situation and it just cannot be compared.

I agree when you dine in, it's nothing alike, but for take-out orders, there's every similarity you can think of and sometimes even more work that the fast food cashier has to do than the to-go server/bartender does to prepare a to-go order.

 

[Springs1]

It would be illegal to pay the McDonald's cashier $2.13 an hour (I'm guessing you already know this - I assume this is your career). It is common to pay the to-go/bartender $2.13, because these are tipped positions, and in the United States of America, this is how it's always been, in many if not most places.

While that is true, that doesn't mean the CUSTOMER has to be paying tips unfairly to the people they are served by. If they are only making $2.13/hr oh well, that's their issue between their EMPLOYER and the EMPLOYEE, NOT the customer's issue to pay more just because their EMPLOYER wants to be cheap.

WHY should I tip one person, but not that other for the SAME EXACT OR EVEN LESS WORK just because they are getting paid less through their employer? That wouldn't be fair to do that, now would it? Tips are based on SERVICE, NOT what someone gets paid an hour by their employer.

About 10yrs ago, a former co-worker of mine at the donut shop I use to work at told me that she made minimum wage plus tips(at that time it was $5.15/hr just as we did at the donut shop as a WAITRESS at a seafood restaurant nearby. That doesn't happen anywhere else, but just to say, it's up to the EMPLOYER if they decide to increase the prices to be able to pay their employees a normal wage, NOT CUSTOMERS. That place did shut down, probably due to they had normal price ranges and still paid their employees minimum wage $5.15/hr.

So it is not OUR PROBLEM or RESPONSIBLITY to pay the rest of the wages that are missing for a to-go order you pick up inside, because we can't tip others that do the same job, sometimes less work even. It just wouldn't be FAIR to do that.

FYI, I rarely get an order from McDonalds that's right, and I remind my children why they will go to college, and not end up in that job.

I get my order right a lot of times at McDonald's. Sure, there were many times I didn't. That has nothing to do with tipping though. The times when they did get my order right, I couldn't tip them could I? WHY mention that then?

 

[MIGrandma]

I'm lost!

Check out Cathryn Rose's post, #236 - she explains it some there.

But if you want to you can PM me and I'll fill you in on what I know about Springs1. She's "been around" server/tipping boards a long, l-o-n-g time.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree when you dine in, it's nothing alike, but for take-out orders, there's every similarity you can think of and sometimes even more work that the fast food cashier has to do than the to-go server/bartender does to prepare a to-go order.

Even then, they cannot be compared.

The situations are entirely different and the level of effort that a seated restaurant applies to its take out orders will never be the same as that of a fast food restaurant which strives to give you your order in an express amount of time.

We only order take out from one restaurant that we customarily dine in at (Texas Roadhouse) and our meals are put together and assembled with great care. Taking far more than the 45-90 second time frames that McD's and their competition strive to acheive in the "fast" food industry.

This is why my tipping isn't based on level of effort, but rather the quality of effort and I don't tip based simply on a server "busting their butt".

To me, there is no job in which anyone with a superb work ethic would not be busting their butt. So I don't tip for that type of effort, unless there was some type of my request that required going above and beyond that effort.

I will admit that we do order curbside to avoid upselling, extras, and to reduce our tip by virtue of having a much smaller tab--but I don't eliminate the tip as it is indeed a server who is still serving us and their wage didn't increase b/c they got stuck with a turn at packing styrofoam containers and walking out to a car. And certainly, I am monitoring the attitude and demeanor of the server as they approach my car and deliver my order and will adjust the tip accordingly as I would if I were seated at their table and they seemed as though I were a waste of their time.

So far so good.

It is not customary to tip at counter service regardless of the type of service or the amount of butt busting that the employee provides. In fact, tip jars are often frowned upon since those are non-tipped positions. But one day, someone stuck a cup out and the trend has been increasing though it is still not widespread.

 

[BelleWDW]

They have had cuts in their earnings, because less people are eating out, and when they do they are ordering less food (forgoing appetizers, etc), so servers don't really need people to cut down on their tip percentages, too.

We've been tipping better since the economy tanked, because we know their earnings have probably taken a bigger hit than our have.

I sometimes see that there will be no turnover of my table-noone entering restaurant while we are eating-makes me feel sorry for the waitstaff & i'll tip a little more.

 

[MIGrandma]

I sometimes see that there will be no turnover of my table-noone entering restaurant while we are eating-makes me feel sorry for the waitstaff & i'll tip a little more.

That is very kind of you, but I don't think any server would expect you to tip more because the restaurant is slow. Of course, I'm sure any server would be happy for the extra nice tip though!

I used to appreciate "campers" that tipped generously for taking up the table for a couple of hours or more. We always called it "rent" for the table. Not all people tipped that way, of course, but it was nice when some did since we weren't getting the table turned another time or two.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I get my order right a lot of times at McDonald's. Sure, there were many times I didn't. That has nothing to do with tipping though. The times when they did get my order right, I couldn't tip them could I? WHY mention that then?

Nothing prevents you from tipping unless there is an express company policy prohibiting the receipt of tips.

We shop at Publix and a bagger will get fired if you tip them. Publix offers it as a service and pays their baggers accordingly.

And just the same--nothing requires you to utilize any service where tipping is customary and being a cheapskate b/c you have some moral code that prevents you from making up the difference in their salary, is rather immoral.

There are avenues for injustice.

I don't believe that tipping should EVER be REQUIRED. However, it doesn't make it culturally acceptable to be the rebel just b/c you disagree with the institution in its entirety.

I don't tip to make up their wage. I tip in response to the level of service I receive. I'm okay with cutting their wage if there were problems with the service. I have only cut it below standard 3x in my life as the paying customer.

I'm willing to bet the farm that you don't tip bell people or your hairstylist/barber or other customarily tipped service industry positions either.

And those folks usually make at least minimum wage. As for hair stylist, I know some are independently employed or contracted to a salon but I don't know if the portion of the rate that we pay for the service amounts to minimum wage or not. I do have a friend that owns a spa and the massueses are paid minimum or maybe a teeny bit above. The rest of their compensation is via tips. I know this as I had another friend who applied but decided to not work there when she found that out. I do not know about the rest of the staff.

I really think it is a shame. But it is your right to do as you wish.

It just seems that if you have an ethical issue with compensation of servers, that your commentary here would be better aimed at your senators or representatives and a movement to have the laws changed. If you are unwilling to do that, it just makes you more of someone making a choice out of cheapness versus one who wishes for the employer to do the right thing.

 

[Springs1]

Even then, they cannot be compared. The situations are entirely different and the level of effort that a seated restaurant applies to its take out orders will never be the same as that of a fast food restaurant which strives to give you your order in an express amount of time.

In what way? They aren't different. They take just as much time. It takes just as much time to pour ranch into a tiny container(if it's not already pre-poured as I think it probably is) as it does to put some condiments in cups that CASHIERS have done for me. It takes the same effort to fix a to-go cup. It takes MORE EFFORT at McDonald's than Applebee's to give me utensils, because they are in separate boxes at McDonald's whereas Applebee's has an all-in-one napkin/utensils/salt n' pepper packets plastic bag sort of thing.

You ring me up in the same manner and give me change or credit card receipt in the same manner. I have to sign a copy if I am at a non-fast food restaurant, but that's not much more work to put in another receipt back in the register that takes literally a second or so.

We only order take out from one restaurant that we customarily dine in at (Texas Roadhouse) and our meals are put together and assembled with great care. Taking far more than the 45-90 second time frames that McD's and their competition strive to acheive in the "fast" food industry.

Not necessarily. Tell me what you order?

This is why my tipping isn't based on level of effort, but rather the quality of effort and I don't tip based simply on a server "busting their butt".

So you like working harder with less pay? I doubt that, so WHY treat others that way, huh?

To me, there is no job in which anyone with a superb work ethic would not be busting their butt.

Most workers don't and are lazy about their jobs these days I find.

I will admit that we do order curbside to avoid upselling, extras, and to reduce our tip by virtue of having a much smaller tab--but I don't eliminate the tip as it is indeed a server who is still serving us and their wage didn't increase b/c they got stuck with a turn at packing styrofoam containers and walking out to a car. And certainly, I am monitoring the attitude and demeanor of the server as they approach my car and deliver my order and will adjust the tip accordingly as I would if I were seated at their table and they seemed as though I were a waste of their time.

As I have stated before, I TIP for people delivering food to my CAR or HOUSE if my order was correct. I am NOT talking about curb-side-to-go type of service.

It is not customary to tip at counter service regardless of the type of service or the amount of butt busting that the employee provides.

Then you agree with me then, so why are you not agreeing with me by saying?

The situations are entirely different and the level of effort

Counter service is counter service no matter if it's a COUNTER or getting your food at the bar or to-go coutner, it's considered COUNTER SERVICE.

 

[Springs1]

I sometimes see that there will be no turnover of my table-noone entering restaurant while we are eating-makes me feel sorry for the waitstaff & i'll tip a little more.

That means you are basing your tip on other people, WHY is that? WHY do you feel sorry for the waitstaff? What have they done for you MORE than your service worth to PAY for? Do you like giving to charity, because that's what you are doing in a sense. You are tipping, you are donating as far as what you are doing, because you are paying someone just because you feel sorry for them, NOT for what "SERVICE" they provided you.

I have donated before to kids for cancer to type of thing, but not for a waitress. A server makes tips and if they don't make any money, they can find another line of work. They don't HAVE to be a waitress. I don't get your pity towards them? That's not your problem or issue to worry about unlike people that are sick that can't help it. To me, that's ashame that people tip like that. NO WONDER WHY SERVICE IS SO BAD AT TIMES TODAY, because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!

 

[mjkacmom]

WHY should I tip one person, but not that other for the SAME EXACT OR EVEN LESS WORK just because they are getting paid less through their employer? That wouldn't be fair to do that, now would it? Tips are based on SERVICE, NOT what someone gets paid an hour by their employer.

I get my order right a lot of times at McDonald's. Sure, there were many times I didn't. That has nothing to do with tipping though. The times when they did get my order right, I couldn't tip them could I? WHY mention that then?

In this great country of ours, we have many assumed customs and traditions, that we, as americans, know and understand. We tip our servers, our hairstylists, the bellhop. We have salaried positions, and we have tipped positions, and they have different minimum wages. Your food cost would be higher if the restaurants had to pay their servers more. Every time you don't tipped, the server is taxed on it as if you need, so you are, in a sense, stealing from that person. Nice. If you don't like it, move - I'm sure those who live in other countries would be "thrilled" to have you! And I guarantee that if you tipped the cashier at Micky D's, it would be accepted in a heartbeat!

And yes, I know she is indeed the crazy tip lady, but I'm having fun.

 

[Springs1]

I used to appreciate "campers" that tipped generously for taking up the table for a couple of hours or more. We always called it "rent" for the table. Not all people tipped that way, of course, but it was nice when some did since we weren't getting the table turned another time or two.

You always think of yourself, don't you? If you called it "rent for the table", the RESTAURANT would be getting that money, NOT the server. The table isn't the server's property to rent out. Just like renting a room at a restaurant for a large group. That money goes to the restaurant, NOT the servers.

They don't owe you more money just because they sit longer. I don't do this, but if the service has stopped completely during that extra time they sit, so should the tipping. It's only fair to pay for services you RECEIVE, NOT services you don't receive.

 

[Cinderella94]

...wow.

2 comments from reading this thread:

1- When PEOPLE type like THIS it makes them LOOK very IMMATURE.

2- I will never be a waitress

 

[Springs1]

Every time you don't tipped, the server is taxed on it as if you need, so you are, in a sense, stealing from that person. Nice. If you don't like it, move - I'm sure those who live in other countries would be "thrilled" to have you!

NO, look at the definition of stealing:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stealing

"to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."

"to gain or seize more than one's share of attention in, as by giving a superior performance: The comedian stole the show."

If the money isn't yours, HOW is it stealing? When you pay taxes, you can blame the GOVERNMENT for that and it has NOTHING to do with us as far as what YOU personally have to pay. That's not stealing. Stealing is the "property of OTHERS", which it's not YOUR MONEY that we are taking from you, because the money you have to pay taxes on is up to YOU if you pay it or not whether you want to pay somethng or not is all on YOU.

It's just like filing your taxes or paying taxes on your tips, that's on YOU to do that, NOT the customer. The customer's money is the customer's money, NOT YOURS, so it's not stealing, is it?

Stealing is when something is someone's that is being taken without permission. We don't steal.

Stealing would be not returning part of someone's change for example. That would be stealing. Stealing would be purposely under ringing items to pocket the stores/restaurant's money. Stealing would be to overcharge someone on purpose to gain a profit(meaning taking *SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY*).

The thing is, we aren't taking YOUR MONEY, are we?

If YOU are being taxed, that means YOU have the problem of PAYING taxes, we didn't TAKE YOUR MONEY FROM YOU, DID WE? You don't know what "STEALING" means, do you?

Blame the GOVERNMENT that you have to pay taxes, don't blame customers, we have NOTHING to do with that aspect, NOTHING!! That's not taking YOUR MONEY away from you. We aren't taking your money. The government is taking your money by you PAYING it to the government.

And I guarantee that if you tipped the cashier at Micky D's, it would be accepted in a heartbeat!!

They didn't take my mom's offers, because they could get fired if they did.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In what way? They aren't different. They take just as much time. It takes just as much time to pour ranch into a tiny container(if it's not already pre-poured as I think it probably is) as it does to put some condiments in cups that CASHIERS have done for me. It takes the same effort to fix a to-go cup. It takes MORE EFFORT at McDonald's than Applebee's to give me utensils, because they are in separate boxes at McDonald's whereas Applebee's has an all-in-one napkin/utensils/salt n' pepper packets plastic bag sort of thing.

You are quite funny. Ummm....you don't realize the training for efficiency at fast food establishments, do you?

Not necessarily. Tell me what you order?

Okay--have fun explaining how these are the same:

McD's--my order would typically be a prepackaged salad with a pre-packaged kit that contains my appropriate dressing utensils and napkin. And to make it quasi-equivilent, I'll have an apple pie for dessert (a boxed eggroll grabbed from the warmer), and a paper wrapped burger. Comes to me in about 60 seconds once they grab everything from the appropriate areas.


Texas Roadhouse--my birthday order where my DH ordered just my meal and brought it home to me when I was sick:

Medium Rare Ribeye with a baked potato "loaded" where they had to package up my butter, sour cream, and my bacon bits and a salad with no egg and no onion and extra honey mustard dressing which again had to be packaged up. I also ordered the apple pie dessert. And of course, they give you rolls and then had to package up my butter. Having watched servers package up other orders when we actually go to the restaurant, this takes them about 5 minutes or so to assemble.

While it may not seem that long to you--that is still 5x longer to package a meal than it does at McD's and thus your thesis that they work harder to do an order, isn't really proven.

So you like working harder with less pay? I doubt that, so WHY treat others that way, huh?

Where did I say that? And--what do you mean?

Most workers don't and are lazy about their jobs these days I find.

I will avoid such establishments if that is the attitude regardless if I am "supposed" to tip them or not. I don't have to support a business that allows its employees to suck and will patronize alternatives. With limited exception where it is a monopoly and you have no choice, I suck it up and deal with it. But even where I live, even those situations--the agency strives to give customers a positive experience.

As I have stated before, I TIP for people delivering food to my CAR or HOUSE if my order was correct. I am NOT talking about curb-side-to-go type of service.

I'm not sure you are aware of what you are talking about or not given in your response, you mention Applebees who sets tables with real utensils while reserving the plastic packets for take out.

When I say curbside, I'm referring to table service restaurants who offer this as a means of doing to go orders. I'm not sure how you can say you are not talking about that as I can't figure out who you would tip for bringing food to your car if it wasn't those restaurants who offer the curbside service.

Then you agree with me then, so why are you not agreeing with me by saying?


Counter service is counter service no matter if it's a COUNTER or getting your food at the bar or to-go coutner, it's considered COUNTER SERVICE.

I don't agree with you--you feel that folks at McD's should be compensated additionally via tipping over some premise that they work harder. Working harder IMHO is not a justifiable reason to tip just on the notion that one works hard at doing their job in a non-tipped, wage earning position.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It sure is our responsiblity to teach him a lesson

No, it is NOT your responsibility to "teach a lesson to" anyone not directly employed by you or not related to you or who is not your student. Do you actually think the server learned to not ACCIDENTALLY neglect to enter an item into the system because you reduced the percentage of your tip???? :

If I give you $20 to do nothing for an hour put watch your favorite show

And still, nobody here understands why you think the restaurant server is doing nothing for you.

Again, you don't want to tip, fine. But don't try to justify your choice.

Let's say the McDonald's cashier was getting paid $2.13/hr and let's say the to-go server/bartender was getting paid the higher amount $7/hr, the McDonald's cashier still does more work or the same amount of work, but doesn't receive a tip. Would that be fair?

While we're at it, let's say the moon is made of green cheese.

Because the minimum wage for restaurant servers is legally set at an amount less than 1/3 minimum wage, if the situation was reversed and it was the McDonald's employee getting $2.13 an hour? Danged right it would be a tipped position. The expectation - by the government - of tips is WHY servers' minimum wage is set as low as it is.

you still didn't answer my question about would you expect more than 20%

At the risk of an infraction, yes, I did answer your question. Several times. I WOULD NOT EXPECT A 20% TIP. I never said that, no server on this thread ever said that, and I don't know how you're inferring it. I don't see how you continue to misunderstand "a couple of bucks would be appreciated" to mean "you must give your to-go server a 20% tip".

I have already answered that type of analogy with my hypothical analogy. If we aren't tipping fast food cashiers to do this, it's only fair to do the same ANY OTHER PLACE IN THIS WORLD,

No. What's fair, given your attitude, it to work to change the system so fast food workers get tipped AS WELL. Still not understanding why you're not directing all this energy, anger, and passion toward CHANGING THE SYSTEM.

I told you EXACT EXAMPLES of orders that take MORE TIME, EFFORT, AND WORK at McDonald's.

No. You have repeated your perception of how little work you THINK the restaurant server does for you, given that you cannot see the restaurant server at all times during the transaction.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

NO WONDER WHY SERVICE IS SO BAD AT TIMES TODAY, because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!

You're not serious.


(and seriously--you can't even see the wit and humor in some of these posts...the "rent" was a joke. But it has gone over your head. You're only post that makes sense is on the "stealing" b/c not tipping is not legally stealing which is why the couple who was arrested for not tipping had their charges dropped. )

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

At the risk of an infraction, yes, I did answer your question. Several times. I WOULD NOT EXPECT A 20% TIP. I never said that, no server on this thread ever said that, and I don't know how you're inferring it. I don't see how you continue to misunderstand "a couple of bucks would be appreciated" to mean "you must give your to-go server a 20% tip".

Sorry to interfere with your quarral--however, there is one poster who is or was a server who always commands that folks tip at least 20%. She posted it several times on the arrest thread.


As for this person's comparison to McD's. I am not sure they have ever been to McD's to make such irrational comparisons to fabricate such "proof" that their order takers work that much harder per customer. Fast food by nature is a model fo efficiency and how one tips for 2 minutes of effort is a concept far lost on me.

 

[CathrynRose]

While we're at it, let's say the moon is made of green cheese.

 

[gina2000]

Perceived value is what this is all about. I perceive greater value in "to go" orders....higher value to me than fast food workers' orders. Don't really care who puts in more work....that's between the employer and the employee. What's between me and the employee is personal perception and value.

If we paid/tipped according to how hard people worked, ditch diggers would be millionaires.