Timeshare rip-off

[ClarabelleCow]

okay try this

http://www.resalesmart.com/buyresults.jsp?location=Orlando

 

[MiaSRN62]

this is the website that is run by Vistana, its for owners to sell their units - some of the prices are pretty low

Thanks for the links ...I was able to click on the first one and found very little under $3K-$4K ? I'd say the majority was well above that ? Maybe the second link (which I couldn't get to open) had lower asking prices ?

We are looking at this from opposite sides of the fence. If I wanted to find a Vistana week, I guarantee you I could find one for $2000 within a few months. The idea that some sell for more doesn't affect that. It's only worth what someone is willing to give and there are MANY Vistana Units for sale.

I totally agree that you could find a Vistana week for around $2K Dean---I never doubted that in any of my posts/replies. Many of the fixed week units can't sell for much more than that if they own an undesirable/low season week. Many units are EOY and these also can be lower. Many in the older sections will sell for this also---and I know many people are trying to sell these because I see them on eBay and other sites. But I also know what I've seen, and I know I could get more than $2K for my Fountains week. It's ok if you don't agree with me on this.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by MiaSRN62
I totally agree that you could find a Vistana week for around $2K Dean---I never doubted that in any of my posts/replies. Many of the fixed week units can't sell for much more than that if they own an undesirable/low season week. Many units are EOY and these also can be lower. Many in the older sections will sell for this also---and I know many people are trying to sell these because I see them on eBay and other sites. But I also know what I've seen, and I know I could get more than $2K for my Fountains week. It's ok if you don't agree with me on this.

I think we're saying the same thing in this regard. That is the savvy buyer can get a bargain and the knowledgeable seller can do better. Part of the problem with selling timeshares is demonstrated by the link posted, that is that most people don't have a clue and think they paid X so they should get around that or even more. Basically all listed for the higher prices will get no interest or only low ball offers.

My only disagreement with you was the idea that it was inappropriate for someone to offer such a low amount. I've offered low amounts on timeshares and had some accepted and others not. I've bought timeshares for just the back fees when they were asking $3500 plus the fees. I have no plans on paying one cent more than I can get it for from someone else. Or if the price is too high IMO, I can just move on and look at somthing else. I see adds on classifieds, especially ones on resort run boards, with statements like "no reasonable offer refused", "just want to get my money back" or "selling 10% below resort selling prices". Those things always tell me the seller has no clue what's going on, what something is truly worth and are unlikely to EVER sell what they own. I've seen it written that only about 5% of timeshares offered for resale are ever sold and I believe that's probably accurate.

 

[MiaSRN62]

My only disagreement with you was the idea that it was inappropriate for someone to offer such a low amount. I've offered low amounts on timeshares and had some accepted and others not. I've bought timeshares for just the back fees when they were asking $3500 plus the fees.

Dean....I apologize if my feelings on this were not conveyed as clearly as they could have been. I have no problem with people offering whatever they see fit to. I think I was more concerned specifically with Kim's offer. She was obviously not satisfied with such a low offer for her Cascades week (which I can understand) and I was just letting her know that she could do better if she really looked around and targeted a different audience perhaps ?
I absolutely agree, no timeshare (DVC included) should be purchased with expectations of turning a profit. This is true particularily with Orlando based timeshares because there are so many of them and it's so easy to trade into but difficult to exchange out of. But I hate to see someone take such a significant loss on the same token. I felt Kim could have gotten a much better offer. I'm sure there are those out there who would accept a low offer for whatever reason---need quick cash or just needs to get out of the deed/monetary obligation etc. Sometimes these low offers/quick transactions work best for both parties involved. If I needed to sell my Vistana timeshare quickly, I would have no problem entertaining low offers. So I have nothing against this in general. I was really directing my feelings on that $1,250 offer to Kim because I felt she could do better. She didn't appear to need to sell particularily fast or anything.
Hope we're ok on this Dean.

 

[luckytso]

What does "club" mean under "usage" on the link that was provided above for the owners selling their timeshare?

I read the definition but is still not clear on exactly what it is. Do you get Starwood Vacation Pts to go to another resort? What is the difference between this versus a floating week?


Thanks

 

[ripleysmom]

When we purchased in 1990, DVC was cheaper than the Silver Lake resort we looked at. Couple that with less expensive financing and it turned into a much less expensive purchase for us.

 

[WildernessMickey]

I am a Marriott owner (Ko'Olina Beach Club in Hawaii) and I was wondering what DVC owners think of the possibilities of trades there. I LOVE the DVC but my husband wouldn't agree to buy only because it expires after 40 something years.

We love Hawaii and it is close by so I'm not sure if I would ever want to trade my week there (2 Bedroom fabulous place!!) but I was wondering if any of you DVC owners would ever consider a trade for the Ko'Olina property. We go to Disney World every year too, but usually stay on property at the Wilderness Lodge since we don't have DVC. I miss not having a kitchen. We may try to rent points one year.

Just curious about your opinions. Thanks.

 

[MiaSRN62]

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=389555&goto=newpost

I'm not certain about this lucky.....I don't participate in the starpoints, but this may be what it is in reference to ? Kim may know this one.

When we purchased in 1990, DVC was cheaper than the Silver Lake resort we looked at. Couple that with less expensive financing and it turned into a much less expensive purchase for us.

And for us, Vistana was much cheaper.....I'm guarenteed 7 nights in a 2 bedroom villa there anytime of the year (weekends no extra), but for the nearly the same selling price, I am not offered 7 nights in a 2 bedroom with DVC. The dues are about the same with each for us.

I am a Marriott owner (Ko'Olina Beach Club in Hawaii) and I was wondering what DVC owners think of the possibilities of trades there.

I'm not sure if DVC can trade into Ko'Olina Beach Club ? I'm looking at the members guidebook and don't see it listed under either "Members Getaways" or "Concierge Collection" ? Maybe I'm missing it ? But to answer your question in a general way....."yes", I would definitely like to trade to a Hawaii resort one day. Right now, it's the airfare that is stopping us. We're a family of five and I've gotten airfare during online searches as high as $500-$700 per person. I've even seen $900 pp ! But I'd love to visit Hawaii one day !

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by MiaSRN62
Dean....I apologize if my feelings on this were not conveyed as clearly as they could have been. I have no problem with people offering whatever they see fit to. I think I was more concerned specifically with Kim's offer. She was obviously not satisfied with such a low offer for her Cascades week (which I can understand) and I was just letting her know that she could do better if she really looked around and targeted a different audience perhaps ?
I absolutely agree, no timeshare (DVC included) should be purchased with expectations of turning a profit. This is true particularily with Orlando based timeshares because there are so many of them and it's so easy to trade into but difficult to exchange out of. But I hate to see someone take such a significant loss on the same token. I felt Kim could have gotten a much better offer. I'm sure there are those out there who would accept a low offer for whatever reason---need quick cash or just needs to get out of the deed/monetary obligation etc. Sometimes these low offers/quick transactions work best for both parties involved. If I needed to sell my Vistana timeshare quickly, I would have no problem entertaining low offers. So I have nothing against this in general. I was really directing my feelings on that $1,250 offer to Kim because I felt she could do better. She didn't appear to need to sell particularily fast or anything.
Hope we're ok on this Dean.

Maria, we're cool. The written word is so hard to get completely straight for both the writter and reader.

WildernessMickey, I would think that a direct exchange with a DVC member would be something you could work out if you plan enough in advance. There are several right now planning HI trips for both 2004 & 2005, maybe you should contact some of them privately. IMO, this would be a fair trade in most situations.

 

[WildernessMickey]

Dean,

Thanks for the response. I have stayed at DVC several times just through paying the nightly rates and I have always been impressed. I have stayed at OKW, HH, and VB. They are all top notch. They have been my standard to compare other resorts to, and the one we got in Hawaii (Ko'Olina) is up to that standard.

Our resort trades through II, which I thought DVC belongs to also. I just keep hearing that no one ever gets a trade through II to DVC. I can see that a straight personal trade might work. Thanks for the advice. I would like to stay at the WLV sometime!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by WildernessMickey
Dean,

Thanks for the response. I have stayed at DVC several times just through paying the nightly rates and I have always been impressed. I have stayed at OKW, HH, and VB. They are all top notch. They have been my standard to compare other resorts to, and the one we got in Hawaii (Ko'Olina) is up to that standard.

Our resort trades through II, which I thought DVC belongs to also. I just keep hearing that no one ever gets a trade through II to DVC. I can see that a straight personal trade might work. Thanks for the advice. I would like to stay at the WLV sometime!

DVC is a corporate member of II and they say which II resorts on on their trade lists and which aren't. I'm sure both of the new Marriott's will be added to the list, just not yet or at least I haven't heard about it if it's happened recently. There are occaional trades into DVC, mostly off season though and most not 2 BR units.

 

[MiaSRN62]

There are occaional trades into DVC, mostly off season though and most not 2 BR units.

I've heard this also....and the few that do become available in off season tend to be OKW. I wish you luck WildernessMickey.....hopefully something will come through for you because it sounds like you have a desirable destination to trade.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

RE: Starpoints/options, they seem to keep changing the name, I found out that with my unit 2 bed floating prime, I could not get into any of the units using the points for Presidents week (harborside at atlantis, westin st johns, mission hills california, arizona or colorado) !! I needed over 67000 options!! But I could go to any of the Florida resorts or Myrtle Beach, (who wants to go to Myrtle Beach in February!!!) I also found out if I wanted to go for less than a week, that would be an option, but I could only book that 90 days in advance, well if your trying to go during a prime vacations period thats impossible to book because of airfare!! So I will stick with my plan to drop Starwood points/options and just do a week in florida every other year or trade through RCI!! Sine I already belong through another resort, why pay for full membership with Interval!! Another thing I found out is that if you buy resale, supposedly you cannot get into the starwood program, you do not have the option of converting your unit into options, only when you buy direct from the seller.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Originally posted by WildernessMickey
I am a Marriott owner (Ko'Olina Beach Club in Hawaii) and I was wondering what DVC owners think of the possibilities of trades there. I LOVE the DVC but my husband wouldn't agree to buy only because it expires after 40 something years.

We love Hawaii and it is close by so I'm not sure if I would ever want to trade my week there (2 Bedroom fabulous place!!) but I was wondering if any of you DVC owners would ever consider a trade for the Ko'Olina property. We go to Disney World every year too, but usually stay on property at the Wilderness Lodge since we don't have DVC. I miss not having a kitchen. We may try to rent points one year.

Just curious about your opinions. Thanks.

I would think that would be a great exchange! I am not sure it is on DVC's list though. We exchanged one week of DVC for a week on the Big Island last year. We also stayed a week on Kauai at Pono Kai on our friend's exchange. I would love to exchange for Shearwater on Kauai! What a view!

 

[DanG]

Clarabelle, Starwood has not changed the names of any trading alternatives. Rather, Staroptions refer to an allocated value for trading your unit within the Starwood Vacation Ownership system and Starpoints refer to trading your week for points that you may use within the Starwood Preferred Guest hotel network anywhere in the world, without restrictions or blackout periods.


The Starwood system is as different from Marriott as both are from DVC. Interestingly, Hyatt is far closer to the Starwood system.

In Marriott, you would have an opportunity to trade your offseason studio for an in season two bedroom if you are lucky and persistent in finding a trade. This is a great value for the bargain hunting buyer of a less valued reasale unit; not such a good deal for the owner of a Hawaii 2BR who has a harder time trading like value for like value.

You are right that the system does not work the way you want it to. That said, I prefer participating in a system that requires a like value trade. A Vistana unit at any time of the year is nowhere near worth a trade into Atlantis, St. John or Hawaii in season. The Starwood system facilitates better trades and deposits for like kind exchanges.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Dan - that is correct, but I would think that my 2 bedroom should be worth a small 1 bedroom during prime time! My unit is worth 65,000.00 staroptions, to stay at Atlantis during the week I wan't I need 67,100 staroptions, which I don't have. I could stay for less than a week, but I can't book that until its 90 days out. Which wouldn't be a big deal but having to fly, airfare would get pretty pricey, and if I booked now, no guarantee to get the room! I agree with you that the Westins should be worth more, but the way its set up is I can belong to Starwood, but just can't use the system during high season, or prior to 90 days of my vacation time! Not a great deal!

 

[DanG]

I absolutely agree that the trading system doesn't work well for you and other similarly situated Vistana owners. Oddly, it works much better for owners at the newer Vistana Villages.

I wanted to respond to your confusion around the Starpoints and Staroptions as the system is complicated and the names confusing.

I bought recently at Westin Mission Hills and so far the program aligns pretty well with what I was expecting, but I won't be making my first trade until next summer so we'll see.

Dan

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by ClarabelleCow
Dan - that is correct, but I would think that my 2 bedroom should be worth a small 1 bedroom during prime time! My unit is worth 65,000.00 staroptions, to stay at Atlantis during the week I wan't I need 67,100 staroptions, which I don't have. I could stay for less than a week, but I can't book that until its 90 days out. Which wouldn't be a big deal but having to fly, airfare would get pretty pricey, and if I booked now, no guarantee to get the room! I agree with you that the Westins should be worth more, but the way its set up is I can belong to Starwood, but just can't use the system during high season, or prior to 90 days of my vacation time! Not a great deal!

This is a phenomona that FF owners have experienced over the years. When FF was fixed weeks initially then converted to more of a points system, the weeks owners found themselves with less and less options. Then as newer ressorts were build, the points per week were increased and the older points owners found themselves with not enough points from one year to stay at the newer places. DVC has seen this to a certain extent as well, especially from OKW to BWV and beyond.

 

[MiaSRN62]

DVC has seen this to a certain extent as well, especially from OKW to BWV and beyond.

I agree, and this is one of the things that really set my mind at ease when signing on the dotted line with DVC.

Dan - that is correct, but I would think that my 2 bedroom should be worth a small 1 bedroom during prime time!

I do know that my friend who owns a 2 bedroom prime floating in the Cascades could only secure a ressie for a 1 bedroom. She went this past April and was able to get a full 7 nights. Not sure how she did it, but it sure sounds like she lucked out considering how difficult it is to get a villa at Harborside period.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Just an update for those with Vistana, I canceled my Feb trip and looked a little further into the whole points system with Vistana, my friend is down their and he just bought another week and sat through a long explanation. So i called and inquired exactly how to use it, I have 65000 options (not points) I can borrow them from next year, with those options I was able to book 8 nights in a premium 2 bedroom which is about 900 square feet. 4 nights in Orlando and 4 nights in Pt. St. Lucie. I will still have almost 25000 options left for next year, which depending on the itme of year I could get another 5 nights in a 1 bedroom premium, so after all my complaining not a bad deal at all. In order to use the options like this, you can only book within a 90 day time period. That's the key, outside of 90 days, you can only book a full week. Just wanted to thank the original author again because he made me wake up and now I am pretty happy with this unit and will keep it!! Just stinks that I already paid 625 to sell it!!