Tiered Benefits

[RescueRanger]

You know, it's sorta fun to watch some of you guys sometimes. Really, it is.

There is absolutely no foundation for truth whatsoever to be found in this thread. It is, in its entireity, a CF (I'll leave you and Figment to your imagination on that acronym.) on inuendo, conjecture, speculation and just plain WAGs. Fact is, as far as I know or have ever been told, not one single person on this forum (at least anyone that posts regularly) has a single clue as to what may or may not come to fruition with regards to any of this.

Kinda like imagining a trainwreck between a train and a log truck (I asked a RR engineer one time what was he scared of and he replied, "Log trucks and gas trucks." LOL) when, in the end, all the train did in the end was to run over a penny for a couple of kids fooling around.

Sure is fun to watch though. It's like a billboard to DVD telling them everything to do and not to do to pi$$ everybody off. Maybe you guys should go through the thread and compile a list of everything you don't want DVD to do and rent a billboard on Buena Vista Dr. (I know there are no billboards on BV Dr but you get the point.) Then again, after this thread, maybe that won't be necessary after all.

All in good fun (just like this thread because at the end of the day, that's all it is).

Actually, your statement that there is absolutely no foundation for truth in this thread is false. This thread is in response to a program that Jim Lewis himself brought up just days ago at the owners meeting. What the parameters of the program might be are speculation, but he said that there is a program that would be announced eventually. I haven't really seen anyone get their drawers in a knot over it, just curiousity and speculation.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Actually, your statement that there is absolutely no foundation for truth in this thread is false. This thread is in response to a program that Jim Lewis himself brought up just days ago at the owners meeting. What the parameters of the program might be are speculation, but he said that there is a program that would be announced eventually. I haven't really seen anyone get their drawers in a knot over it, just curiousity and speculation.

Exactly!

It is called The DIS DISCUSSION forum for a reason

 

[tjkraz]

Do you really think that they don't realize that if you devalue the resale you affect direct sales.

Surely they don't think that everyone that buys is going to keep their DVC forever and never need or want to sell.

Probably a good topic for another poll but personally I gave almost no consideration to resale when purchasing. It was a bullet point on a list of pros and cons when my wife and I discussed the concept, but really didn't factor into the decision.

The primary consideration, IMO, is whether an individual will own long enough to reach the supposed break-even point. Whatever figure one comes up with...7 years, 10 years, etc...you really shouldn't be buying unless you expect to be making trips at least that long. Anyone who buys expecting to use the points for 4-5 years and then sell for a certain level of return is foolish.

People buy DVC for the here-and-now...not after balancing a laundry list of what ifs. If buyers took into account every possibility when debating the purchase (what if we lose our jobs? what if we tire of the parks? what if the kids can't skip school anymore? what if we move to Florida? what if our favorite perk is discontinued? what if the booking windows change? what if resale values decline?), nobody would ever buy.

Simply put, I can't see many people who are otherwise good candidates for DVC ownership deciding NOT to buy simply because they are worried about the contract value in 10, 20 or 30 years.

 

[DVCGeek]

I think any changes that gave people preferential booking windows would be infinitely unfair and completely at odds with how DVC was marketed to us. If there is any one move that could backfire on DVC, it would be this. I know that I, as well as most on this board, would go from proponents of DVC, to actively marketing against it.

I completely agree, whatever window I would fall into with my point count. I'm not sure how actively I'd go against it, but I could see becoming anti-DVC, especially if the amount of savings continues to be poor (or break even further out) because of ongoing cash discounts and giveaways [free tix/dining, etc.]...

 

[culli]

Just wondering if people are against say Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham, Holiday Inn or pretty much every hotel chain? They have tiered programs and offer special upgrades, discounts to other members. Also almost every airlines and rental car company does the same thing.....so are you anti these companies or any company that has any kind of loyalty program? What about Best Buy where they have certain invite only sales - do you boycott them?

I totally understand if they are taking away something you currently have, but if they decide to reward others for spending more on initial buy in and ongoing MFs what difference does it make to you? I know my examples are not perfect apples to apples comparisons but these types of things go on all around you daily -do you rebel against them and "be done with them"?

What about that there is a cost break the more you buy? Different prices for buying 100 or less pts then 100-225 (or whatever the breakdown is) why is that fair that some get better price breaks just because they bought more pts. What about people on the cruises or those that can make it to the door way to dream events, why doesn't everyone get those deals - how is that fair? How is it fair that someone who buys resale and has 25pts get the same $100 AP discount then someone with 1000pts? We could go on and on, but there are inequalities everywhere all around us and honestly how is any of it truly effect your life? How will any tiered program really effect your enjoyment of your vacation? Our society is so "if someone gets something I better get it too or that's just not fair".

The whole thread is premature as we have no idea what or if anything will be done. But I'm shocked at people say if they come with a tiered program "I'm done with Disney" attitude.

Ok let the flame throwing begin!

 

[BEASLYBOO]

The whole thread is premature as we have no idea what or if anything will be done. But I'm shocked at people say if they come with a tiered program "I'm done with Disney" attitude.

It's a discussion and most people don't like change! I guess we wait and see! Can't get upset till I see how it will affect me and mine!

I don't really care if people with huge amounts of points get something out of it as long as it doesn't have to be taken away from me (whatever DVC determines it to be) for them to get it! That I think would be unfair!

 

[culli]

I guess we wait and see!

I don't really care if people with huge amounts of points get something out of it as long as i (whatever DVC determines it to be) doesn't have to be taken away from me for them to get it! That I think would be unfair!

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!! If things are taken away that is different.

 

[Dacky619]

Just wondering if people are against say Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham, Holiday Inn or pretty much every hotel chain? They have tiered programs and offer special upgrades, discounts to other members. Also almost every airlines and rental car company does the same thing.....so are you anti these companies or any company that has any kind of loyalty program? What about Best Buy where they have certain invite only sales - do you boycott them?

I stay in hotels 50-60 nights a year for work. I know that isn't a crazy amount, but it is enough to be at the highest tier for a couple of different chains. I am loyal to Hilton and Holiday Inn mainly because of their rewards system for me. If they changed the system, it wouldn't be too difficult for me to start booking alternative accomodations. I don't feel vested in them because I am free to change at any time.

On the other hand, when I have already invested 20 grand in DVC (I know some have spent less and some more) that changes things. I know we aren't sure what changes (if any) are coming, but I can understand why some people might get upset.

 

[cseca]

It's a discussion and most people don't like change! I guess we wait and see! Can't get upset till I see how it will affect me and mine!

I don't really care if people with huge amounts of points get something out of it as long as it doesn't have to be taken away from me (whatever DVC determines it to be) for them to get it! That I think would be unfair!

Agreed... I would rather DVC implement a tiered benefits than do something that would negatively affect resale values or taking away any rights of all current owners.
I want to know that if in the future I need to resell my points I wouldn't have a hard time with it without losing a whole lot of $.

 

[DVCGeek]

I'm starting to think discounted or free room upgrades could be an interesting way for DVD to go. If they only happen 24 hours or less from check in (like airline seat upgrades) then it wouldn't negatively impact me but some people might get a nice benefit. Don't know if it would be "enough" though. Time will tell! I'm also starting to wonder how many points two groups I referred in the past bought...

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I'm starting to think discounted or free room upgrades could be an interesting way for DVD to go. If they only happen 24 hours or less from check in (like airline seat upgrades) then it wouldn't negatively impact me but some people might get a nice benefit. Don't know if it would be "enough" though. Time will tell! I'm also starting to wonder how many points two groups I referred in the past bought...

I don't think that would hold much value for high point owners, seeing as though Members with lots of points would likely get the larger accommodations anyway.
For us, more than two people means a 2br.

MG

 

[Dean]

Not legally possible, unless it is subsidized by the developer...and then the stockholders would likely be rebelling, as it would take from profit.

Actually Chuck, they could make some changes that would favor those with higher points over those who own less points. I already own one points system that has higher fees for those with less points. While I don't expect such a change, DVC could certain do the same thing. Part of the thinking is that those who own less points actually cost more pp from a management standpoint and that is true.

Do you really think that they don't realize that if you devalue the resale you affect direct sales.

Surely they don't think that everyone that buys is going to keep their DVC forever and never need or want to sell.

The very reason that Honda and Toyota can get the resale price they ask over Ford and Chevrolet is a product that holds a high resale value.

As to no access to new resorts, do you mean that going forward those in that category would not be able to book say Aluani, etc.

Realize my posts have generally been more about possibilities than probabilities. One possibility is that DVC would create a DVC II which would technically be separate then allow some members to cross over to the new system based on qualifying criteria.

I wonder how they will do this for those of us that have multiple membership. Will your VIP status be based on membership # or by the individual? We have 3 memberships, a 200 pt and 150 pt bought direct from DVC, and a 200 pt bought resale. The direct memberships are in DH and my name only, the resale has our DS included as well.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see............Laura

Again, I doubt a VIP system will happen but if it does, I would expect the same break downs as before. Anything under one master currently will likely count as one going forward. That is unless they did not grandfather existing resale buyers.

There is absolutely no foundation for truth whatsoever to be found in this thread.

I enjoy speculating on such issues but to say there's no elements of truth would be stretch. There are some very strong rumors from credible sources that suggests something will happen fairly soon plus a program along the lines of these speculations was alluded to at the annual meeting.

 

[Dean]

Just wondering if people are against say Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham, Holiday Inn or pretty much every hotel chain? They have tiered programs and offer special upgrades, discounts to other members. Also almost every airlines and rental car company does the same thing.....so are you anti these companies or any company that has any kind of loyalty program? What about Best Buy where they have certain invite only sales - do you boycott them?

I totally understand if they are taking away something you currently have, but if they decide to reward others for spending more on initial buy in and ongoing MFs what difference does it make to you? I know my examples are not perfect apples to apples comparisons but these types of things go on all around you daily -do you rebel against them and "be done with them"?

What about that there is a cost break the more you buy? Different prices for buying 100 or less pts then 100-225 (or whatever the breakdown is) why is that fair that some get better price breaks just because they bought more pts. What about people on the cruises or those that can make it to the door way to dream events, why doesn't everyone get those deals - how is that fair? How is it fair that someone who buys resale and has 25pts get the same $100 AP discount then someone with 1000pts? We could go on and on, but there are inequalities everywhere all around us and honestly how is any of it truly effect your life? How will any tiered program really effect your enjoyment of your vacation? Our society is so "if someone gets something I better get it too or that's just not fair".

The whole thread is premature as we have no idea what or if anything will be done. But I'm shocked at people say if they come with a tiered program "I'm done with Disney" attitude.

Ok let the flame throwing begin!

One of my motto's is that "someone else's gain is not necessarily my loss". There are similar discussion about other timeshares along these lines. I'd say that the discussion regarding the Marriott changes put this one to shame.

The idea that an erosion of resale value will truly affect retail sales isn't supported by fact. The reality is that most people who buy, esp new members, don't have a clue about such issues and most assume they'll never sell. Plus the paperwork you sign warrants that you understand that you're not buying expecting profits later either for rental or resale.

 

[OhioDVC]

As long as current members do not loose any benefits, giving members who stay more often and have purchased more points doesn't hurt anyone.

Look at the airlines, frequent fliers get on the plane first, but everyone arrives at the next airport at the same time

 

[maminnie]

Didn't the point reallocation and the check-in plus seven days already give those with more points 'tiered benefits' over those with less........

 

[Sammie]

Just wondering if people are against say Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham, Holiday Inn or pretty much every hotel chain? They have tiered programs and offer special upgrades, discounts to other members. Also almost every airlines and rental car company does the same thing.....so are you anti these companies or any company that has any kind of loyalty program?

Interestingly in the past if you had ask Disney would they ever offer a program such as these and they would have told you under no circumstance would they ever offer a reward program. That it was not how they did business. Because there are many that go to Disney year after year and spend much more staying concierge and in suites. I am sure we invested over $50,000 in Disney vacations before we bought DVC.

Definitely makes you think sales is not where they want them to be, that they feel the need to offer this. For surely this is not about rewarding anyone, its about trying to make higher point sales more attractive.

 

[OhioDVC]

the points re-allocation dealt with reservation patterns and doesn't everyone get the 7-day plus reservation policy. These policies affect everyone the same.

 

[drusba]

Didn't the point reallocation and the check-in plus seven days already give those with more points 'tiered benefits' over those with less........

That is a kind of it depends. Yes those with enough points for a week, if making a week long reservation, have a little advantage over those without enough for a week. But if you are making a ressie in a studio for 110 or less points for a week, it is a little hard to call you a high roller on the point ownership tier chart.

 

[tjkraz]

Didn't the point reallocation and the check-in plus seven days already give those with more points 'tiered benefits' over those with less........

The point reallocation was necessitated by dwindling demand for weekend stays.

As for the checkin + 7, I can't see that being successfully touted as any sort of perk for high point ownership.

Interestingly in the past if you had ask Disney would they ever offer a program such as these and they would have told you under no circumstance would they ever offer a reward program. That it was not how they did business.

Those sorts of philosophies are always subject to change. Wasn't all that long ago that Disney embraced such programs via the Magic Kingdom Club / Disney Club.

Definitely makes you think sales is not where they want them to be, that they feel the need to offer this. For surely this is not about rewarding anyone, its about trying to make higher point sales more attractive.

Any business owner will tell you that the best sales pace is to sell more than they did yesterday.

I don't whether sales are "where they want them to be" or not. For all we know, sales could be better than projections or expectations. But when you've got an opportunity to go up another level, most entrepreneurs will at least entertain the possibility.

 

[palaemon]

I hope the tiered benefits are just that: benefits - not restrictions placed on other members.

I can't imagine that they would touch home resort advantage or deem a resale as second-class, so it will be interesting what, if anything will come of this.