Tiered Benefits

[eva]

One point though, I would not compare it to frequent flier, hotel chains, etc.
Those are rewards based on an individual repeatedly buying, not for hotel stays or flights that may have been 10 years ago.

Whom is the better DVD/DVC customer?
- Person A buys 1000 points 10 years ago (and none in the last 10 years)
- Person B buys 200 points each of the last three years
Clearly person A has spent more (with inflation), but they haven't helped the DVC division other than the 12.5% portion of dues that goes toward the management fees?
Person B on the other hand has helped the current DVD/DVC management and appears more likely to buy more points in the future.

Interesting thought. But there are those that will say that people with more points spend more times at the parks each year spending money in the parks, in restaurants, etc. And if they had those points for ten years then they have been spending money in the parks for 10 years, not 3. Just another thought.

 

[Dean]

I have always thought a tiered discount on APs was appropriate. I never thought a 25 point family of six should get the same AP discount as a two person family with 1500 points.

MG

or even pay the same amount per point on fees as it clearly costs a dramatic amount more pp for those with very small contracts compared to those with large contracts as in your extreme example.

At first glance this would appear to be true, but wouldn't it depend on many factors?

- Obviously the printed material they send to each member costs less per point for the high point owners.
- However, a member who owns 100 points at 8 resorts may be more expensive than a member who owns 400 points at 1 resort. Computer system maintenance, possibly banking/borrowing more, taxes/dues.
- Additionally, it could be argued that someone who has many short stays (including split stays) results in higher per point fees (reservations, cleaning, etc)

Wouldn't the most costly per point member be the one who damages a room but doesn't report it?

Obviously there are variables. There are fixed costs such as the ones you mentioned and there are variable costs related to the number of phone calls and other interactions that occur. It appears that those with very small contracts have a lot of interactions pp compared to the rest because they're trying to squeeze every day out, get cheaper options at 7 months and WL more than most. Those with larger points are going to tend to use more point per stay as well as not sweat every little point. In your specific example I'd doubt that the member with 800 points spread over 8 resorts would be any more expensive than one with 400 points at a single resort on average. The other variable is the personality of each member but I can't account for that in a discussion such as this so any statements I make should be considered on average unless specified otherwise. BTW, I'm not complaining, only stating where I see things stand.

 

[dizfan]

Interesting thought. But there are those that will say that people with more points spend more times at the parks each year spending money in the parks, in restaurants, etc. And if they had those points for ten years then they have been spending money in the parks for 10 years, not 3. Just another thought.

As someone who first visited DL 40 years ago, I would point out that only means they owned points for 10 years. I know people who go to at least two of the following every year: WDW, DL, Tokyo Disney, Disneyland Paris, DCL. However, they do not own DVC. At WDW, they stay at GF. Again, they may spend more money each year than a DVC owner with 1000 points for 10 years.
Obviously, the DVC owner with 1000 points bought 10 years ago, had a large up front cost and dues. However, someone staying at Poly or GF multiple times a year for 10 years, has likely out spent the DVC costs. (Otherwise, DVC isn't a very good deal).

Someone who owns DVC could also be renting points, in which case the member may not have spent much at the parks.

It's easy to generalize, but reality is each case is different.

Also, keep in mind this is about DVD sales. I suspect the DVD/DVC division of Disney is happy when theme parks do well, but they are more concerned about their own division generating better profits each year.

 

[dizfan]

There are fixed costs such as the ones you mentioned and there are variable costs related to the number of phone calls and other interactions that occur. It appears that those with very small contracts have a lot of interactions pp compared to the rest because they're trying to squeeze every day out, get cheaper options at 7 months and WL more than most. Those with larger points are going to tend to use more point per stay as well as not sweat every little point. In your specific example I'd doubt that the member with 800 points spread over 8 resorts would be any more expensive than one with 400 points at a single resort on average. The other variable is the personality of each member but I can't account for that in a discussion such as this so any statements I make should be considered on average unless specified otherwise. BTW, I'm not complaining, only stating where I see things stand.

Absolutely agree that on average what you mentioned is correct.
Read many of your posts and you know the system far better than I do.

Just wanted to make sure people understood there are many variables that come into play and there may be cases where high point owners are not always the lowest cost per point to the DVC system.

 

[MELSMICE]

Originally Posted by eva
Interesting thought. But there are those that will say that people with more points spend more times at the parks each year spending money in the parks, in restaurants, etc. And if they had those points for ten years then they have been spending money in the parks for 10 years, not 3. Just another thought.

But this might not necessarily be the case. It all depends on what time of year you go, what resort you choose to stay at & what size unit you stay in.

Two people that each have 500 points may spend them differently. One family could take numerous trips per year with those 500 points & another family may take 1 trip with their 500 points.

 

[Dean]

But this might not necessarily be the case. It all depends on what time of year you go, what resort you choose to stay at & what size unit you stay in.

Two people that each have 500 points may spend them differently. One family could take numerous trips per year with those 500 points & another family may take 1 trip with their 500 points.

To me it wouldn't matter. One with 500 points bought retail have paid a chunk of change roughly equivalent to each other as well as paying roughly the same amount in yearly fees. While one may spend more money than another for a number of reasons, I don't think number of trips or room days is a very good measure of what they'll likely spend. Nor do I think it matters because we're talking DVC and the $$$ spent outside of DVC really doesn't factor in to this situation in my book. I also doubt the length of ownership will matter in such situations, it's mostly about the money.

 

[TisBit]

To me it wouldn't matter. One with 500 points bought retail have paid a chunk of change roughly equivalent to each other as well as paying roughly the same amount in yearly fees. While one may spend more money than another for a number of reasons, I don't think number of trips or room days is a very good measure of what they'll likely spend. Nor do I think it matters because we're talking DVC and the $$$ spent outside of DVC really doesn't factor in to this situation in my book. I also doubt the length of ownership will matter in such situations, it's mostly about the money.

I agree, I doubt you will see a tiered program based on # of days or trips or anything subjective. It will be all points based and a decent possibility of a direct vs resale distinction of some sort (maybe grandfathered, maybe not, maybe greater of the point total decides, etc). Disney doesn't care if you own at one resort or another, if you have one contract or twelve (even if admin costs are different) but will make it simply if you own X amount of points you will be considered this tier of a program.

Ownership/Membership programs do not go on length/number of stays for their programs, it doesn't make sense to do it....those are resevered for CRO type operations where you pay cash per night, etc and it enourages you to buy more. For DVC, the buy more is translated into points...not just adjusting to make more trips in a year.

 

[locodemickey]

Another thought - we bought a lot of our points on a cast-member discount, would they look at that differently?

 

[Deb & Bill]

Another thought - we bought a lot of our points on a cast-member discount, would they look at that differently?

Dude, you are screwed.

 

[Dean]

Another thought - we bought a lot of our points on a cast-member discount, would they look at that differently?

Doubtful other than the usual safeguards for those owning and working for DVC.

 

[marynvince]

Any tiered benefits system will be additional benefits based on a greater number of points, while not affecting the group as a whole. There will not be priority booking.

There will also not be any differentiation between direct and resale points. Any benefit program that would favor direct purchase points actually diminishes the value of those points. Points that can not be sold at a "fair" market value will not be purchased at all, especially if the only direct points that were to qualify for tiered benefits are a high number (500?). Just doesn't make sense.

I'll take better AP discounts, earlier check-in time, perpetual fast-pass, ability to buy a lifetime park pass.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Any tiered benefits system will be additional benefits based on a greater number of points, while not affecting the group as a whole. There will not be priority booking.

There will also not be any differentiation between direct and resale points. Any benefit program that would favor direct purchase points actually diminishes the value of those points. Points that can not be sold at a "fair" market value will not be purchased at all, especially if the only direct points that were to qualify for tiered benefits are a high number (500?). Just doesn't make sense.

I'll take better AP discounts, earlier check-in time, perpetual fast-pass, ability to buy a lifetime park pass.

From your lips to DVC's ear, but I'm not holding my breath on any of that. I figure with my luck, that since I own 449 points, they will make the cut off point 450!

 

[MELSMICE]

This has nothing to do with tiered benefits, but we were able to get into our 2BR villa before 11 a.m. yesterday. Obviously, this one had not been rented on the day we checked in.

It was really nice, considering we had gotten up at 4 a.m. for our flight! I would be all for that benefit for DVC members!

 

[tjkraz]

There will also not be any differentiation between direct and resale points. Any benefit program that would favor direct purchase points actually diminishes the value of those points. Points that can not be sold at a "fair" market value will not be purchased at all, especially if the only direct points that were to qualify for tiered benefits are a high number (500?). Just doesn't make sense.

I'm inclined to disagree. DVC's continued ability to sell hundreds-of-thousands of points every month despite the 30-40% savings available via resale demonstrates that most buyers just don't consider those sorts of things. I can't see most buyers even assuming they will sell some day, much less taking some offense to DVC allegedly devaluing resales.

As Dean has said, the only way that this program will have any positive impact on sales is if it provides some truly desirable benefits. Providing such benefits will come at a cost to DVC. And I don't see why they would want to pay for those benefits to be extended to resale buyers.

I hate to speculate too much but the one potential perk that could really be a game changer for this VIP program is the instant FastPasses. On message boards, members have been hoping for years that DVC could come up with some sort of perk that would get us a few FPs per trip. I've had trouble getting on board with that simply because 10-15K members at the parks on any given day is an awful lot of people getting no-wait tickets for Toy Story Mania or Soarin.

But 5-10% of that number seems a lot more manageable.

With a participation threshold set pretty high (say 1000 points owned + referred) resales would still be appealing for those who can live without the FPs or who simply know that they wouldn't reach that level. But for others, it would be a pretty attractive benefit to encourage direct purchases and referrals.

 

[dizfan]

I hate to speculate too much but the one potential perk that could really be a game changer for this VIP program is the instant FastPasses. On message boards, members have been hoping for years that DVC could come up with some sort of perk that would get us a few FPs per trip. I've had trouble getting on board with that simply because 10-15K members at the parks on any given day is an awful lot of people getting no-wait tickets for Toy Story Mania or Soarin.

But 5-10% of that number seems a lot more manageable.

With a participation threshold set pretty high (say 1000 points owned + referred) resales would still be appealing for those who can live without the FPs or who simply know that they wouldn't reach that level. But for others, it would be a pretty attractive benefit to encourage direct purchases and referrals.

I'm not sure Disney would offer unlimited FPs as the perk. My reasoning is that in today's internet age, it would only take one person to abuse the system and get 100 TSM FPs to upset the guests. While 99.9% wouldn't do this, it only takes one or two bad apples to get the internet abuse with upset customers.

Disney's theme parks rely heavily on the return visitor. All DVC owners were at one time, a first time visitor. Would any of us have returned year after year, if we knew someone could skip to the front of the line whenever they wanted? In addition, however many times they wanted?

I could see a limit given at checkin. Perhaps 1 valid per FP attraction, or something resembling the good old A, B, C, D, E ticket ride passes. Even then I suspect they will require a platinum DVC card to be shown to prevent renters from receiving the FPs. Or something based on length of stay for platinum DVC owners?

 

[vicki_c]

Free FPs would be the absolute last benefit I would want. My family does just fine gathering FPs on our trips - to the point that we often give some away because we don't even use them all. I'm surprised by how many think that would be a great benefit of some kind, or by the people who want to take the DVC tour just to get FPs.

I would much prefer bringing back free valet parking, or opening up BLT lounge to all, etc.

Of course, none of this matters with my 160 points -- I don't think I will be a party to any extra benefits!

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not sure Disney would offer unlimited FPs as the perk. My reasoning is that in today's internet age, it would only take one person to abuse the system and get 100 TSM FPs to upset the guests. While 99.9% wouldn't do this, it only takes one or two bad apples to get the internet abuse with upset customers.

Disney's theme parks rely heavily on the return visitor. All DVC owners were at one time, a first time visitor. Would any of us have returned year after year, if we knew someone could skip to the front of the line whenever they wanted? In addition, however many times they wanted?

I could see a limit given at checkin. Perhaps 1 valid per FP attraction, or something resembling the good old A, B, C, D, E ticket ride passes. Even then I suspect they will require a platinum DVC card to be shown to prevent renters from receiving the FPs. Or something based on length of stay for platinum DVC owners?

I don't think I ever said unlimited.

No there would certainly have to be limits...perhaps 1 per guest per day or a certain number depending upon the length of the stay.

Obviously the parks aren't going to be held captive by DVC members. That's exactly why I thought it was a pipe dream to think the instant FPs could be given to all as a member perk. But a much smaller subset is entirely more workable.

Will it happen? Guess we'll all find out soon enough...

 

[dizfan]

Is there anything that would prevent DVD/DVC from offering platinum DVC members special benefits here?

Perhaps 25% of the member cruise accommodations would be opened up to platinum members a week before everyone else. In addition, offer special events or gifts only to the platinum members.

(NOTE: not suggesting that this would be the only platinum perk, but could be part of the platinum perk bundle.)

 

[dizfan]

I don't think I ever said unlimited.

My apologies.

I've read too many posts on various boards where people have been using the "unlimited fastpass" wording to the point whenever I read the free FPs, I assume that's what they are referring to. I assumed and made a ___ out of myself.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I don't think I ever said unlimited.

No there would certainly have to be limits...perhaps 1 per guest per day or a certain number depending upon the length of the stay.

Obviously the parks aren't going to be held captive by DVC members. That's exactly why I thought it was a pipe dream to think the instant FPs could be given to all as a member perk. But a much smaller subset is entirely more workable.

Will it happen? Guess we'll all find out soon enough...

Does the 350k estimate on families include all family members or just owner(s)? If it's really 350k total, as I suspect for marketing purposes (sounds like a lot of others are "in" so you should be too), then it stands to reason that on any given day, there are on average 1000 DVC members spread through 4 parks. That means 250/park. I know this is not an accurate number but it suffices for my point and that is this. You could have 250 people per park stark naked and nobody'd likely notice. In other words, no matter if you gave all members present on any given day front-of-the-line passes, I seriously doubt anybody'd even notice.

I know that's a stretched generalization but if you apply some blackout windows like FL resident passes, for example, any FP solution that is even a large subset of the whole becomes a very workable situation.

{I can't believe I've actually engaged in this speculation given my earlier post. Bob prepares to be beaten with a Mickey Glove.)