Thoughts on why crowds are lower this summer so far??

[focusondisney]

I agree there are many cheaper options than Disney. But there's no point of pursuing the cheaper option if it's not the experience you want. At this moment, you would have to drag me by the feet to get me on a transatlantic flight.

Also the reason I won’t go to Universal no matter how much cheaper it is.

 

[Cybertruck]

I do really hope Disney gets its act together and starts designing park features to handle the summer temps better. I’ve seen too many projects lately that just don’t seem to recognize the need to provide shade and other relief from the heat based on park design features.

Agree but even if it is an afterthought then can provide shade via an overhead canopy with fans like Haunted Mansion. I think about this even time I see families overheated in line at Slinky Dog Dash.

 

[Minnie1222]

Also the reason I won’t go to Universal no matter how much cheaper it is.

This is an excellent example of the point I'm trying to make. People are not hesitant to go to Europe (or other places) because they can't see past Disney. They just simply want to go to Disney at this time. In reverse, my husband wants to see a baseball game this weekend. How would it help him if I suggest we go to Disney instead?

 

[Figment Mom]

This is an excellent example of the point I'm trying to make. People are not hesitant to go to Europe (or other places) because they can't see past Disney. They just simply want to go to Disney at this time. In reverse, my husband wants to see a baseball game this weekend. How would it help him if I suggest we go to Disney instead?

For some reason it seems to be a societal thing to "shame" people for wanting to go to Disney.

I don't understand the comparison, anyway. I spend more for a cabin at my local state park than I do for my hotel room at Disney.

 

[cmbr]

This whole thread is super interesting to read!

I think in part this could be attributed to burnout. I feel like Disney trips became, for lack of a better word, trendy in the years leading up to Covid and in late '21-'22, and I would attribute that to the vlog/Disney influencer culture that built up around the parks as things like Youtube and Instagram have grown in prominence. Factor in that everyone was antsy to travel post-pandemic, and I think the natural decline of park crowds from how high they were in '22 is pretty natural. That being said, I do think there is a crowd of people that have been fairly loyal to regularly visiting the parks that feel priced out and/or unsatisfied with the parks' additions in recent years. My family has been a Disney family for the past twelve years, but the last time we took a family trip to Disney they wanted to go to Universal a few days (I was the only one in my family who'd been before) and we left Orlando with my family saying that next time they wanted to do a Universal trip rather than a Disney trip. Talked to my mom this weekend and she still felt that way, especially with Epic Universe opening soon.

They're not hurting for crowds and I don't want to pretend they're in some massive trouble or anything, but I think reputation matters, and in recent years I personally feel Disney has rested on the laurels of their reputation up until 2020. Prices are increasing, and many will be fine with meeting these prices; but for many, their experiences aren't living up to what they're paying. Whether you think you're getting your money's worth will vary from person to person, family to family, but I think it's natural for people who aren't finding Disney worth it right now to take their money elsewhere. But there's no one single answer to crowd dynamics, haha.

 

[SealedSeven]

They're not hurting for crowds and I don't want to pretend they're in some massive trouble or anything, but I think reputation matters, and in recent years I personally feel Disney has rested on the laurels of their reputation up until 2020. Prices are increasing, and many will be fine with meeting these prices; but for many, their experiences aren't living up to what they're paying. Whether you think you're getting your money's worth will vary from person to person, family to family, but I think it's natural for people who aren't finding Disney worth it right now to take their money elsewhere. But there's no one single answer to crowd dynamics, haha.

This I think is the main answer. Prices have increased, but the experiences currently offered haven't kept up with the increase. Guardians / Tron are the only recent big new rides, with Tiana only being a retheme. Other parks in area have opened multiple attractions last few years during time of GotG/Tron construction, some even adding whole new areas / upcoming new gates.

I think this is a good wake up call for Disney to adjust and compete against other parks with either better experiences or better pricing to attack tourists again. This will (hopefully) be a good thing for tourists / consumers in the long run. Can't go off of rethemes / club 33 / DVC lounge updates only.

EDIT: Also Disney offering same experiences that were once free (fastpass) for an upcharge isn't helping either. That's going the opposite way as above

 

[J-Dog]

This whole thread is super interesting to read!

I think in part this could be attributed to burnout. I feel like Disney trips became, for lack of a better word, trendy in the years leading up to Covid and in late '21-'22, and I would attribute that to the vlog/Disney influencer culture that built up around the parks as things like Youtube and Instagram have grown in prominence. Factor in that everyone was antsy to travel post-pandemic, and I think the natural decline of park crowds from how high they were in '22 is pretty natural. That being said, I do think there is a crowd of people that have been fairly loyal to regularly visiting the parks that feel priced out and/or unsatisfied with the parks' additions in recent years. My family has been a Disney family for the past twelve years, but the last time we took a family trip to Disney they wanted to go to Universal a few days (I was the only one in my family who'd been before) and we left Orlando with my family saying that next time they wanted to do a Universal trip rather than a Disney trip. Talked to my mom this weekend and she still felt that way, especially with Epic Universe opening soon.

They're not hurting for crowds and I don't want to pretend they're in some massive trouble or anything, but I think reputation matters, and in recent years I personally feel Disney has rested on the laurels of their reputation up until 2020. Prices are increasing, and many will be fine with meeting these prices; but for many, their experiences aren't living up to what they're paying. Whether you think you're getting your money's worth will vary from person to person, family to family, but I think it's natural for people who aren't finding Disney worth it right now to take their money elsewhere. But there's no one single answer to crowd dynamics, haha.

I agree. So far, I haven't seen a single reason posted on this thread that has data to back it up and/or the theory has been totally disproven. Which probably indicates that either 1) like you say, there are multiple minor reasons for the lower crowds, or 2) the crowds aren't actually lower, it's just anecdotal perspective (i.e. "Main Street USA looks slightly less crowded, so I am going to assume that MK is dead all summer, even though I've only been here for one day and it's 108 degrees at 3pm right now").

I do think, however that the perception of lower crowds becoming a trendy idea is good for us, the customers, in general, because it will hopefully keep Disney from getting too complacent.

This I think is the main answer. Prices have increased, but the experiences currently offered haven't kept up with the increase. Guardians / Tron are the only recent big new rides, with Tiana only being a retheme. Other parks in area have opened multiple attractions last few years during time of GotG/Tron construction, some even adding whole new areas / upcoming new gates.

I think this is a good wake up call for Disney to adjust and compete against other parks with either better experiences or better pricing to attack tourists again. This will (hopefully) be a good thing for tourists / consumers in the long run. Can't go off of rethemes / club 33 / DVC lounge updates only.

EDIT: Also Disney offering same experiences that were once free (fastpass) for an upcharge isn't helping either. That's going the opposite way as above

I agree that upcharges MIGHT be hurting Disney, but I don't blame them for that. Of course, I would rather they didn't start charging for things that were previously free, but it's not like they are the only company/industry that have been unchanging in recent years. The obvious scapegoat is the airline industry. But other industries like the hotel industry adding things like resort fees are doing it too.

 

[Minnie1222]

I think this is a good wake up call for Disney to adjust and compete against other parks with either better experiences or better pricing to attack tourists again. This will (hopefully) be a good thing for tourists / consumers in the long run. Can't go off of rethemes / club 33 / DVC lounge updates only.

EDIT: Also Disney offering same experiences that were once free (fastpass) for an upcharge isn't helping either. That's going the opposite way as above

We don't know for sure if Disney really needs a wake up call. Are they actually losing money over the alleged low crowds? Or are they gaining by serving fewer guests? Despite what some people think, higher crowds do not always equate larger profits. They need to find a balance to keep their "base" happy. I have no idea who their current base is, but it doesn't look like the group that is still clinging to free FP.

 

[Kingkonig]

We don't know for sure if Disney really needs a wake up call. Are they actually losing money over the alleged low crowds? Or are they gaining by serving fewer guests? Despite what some people think, higher crowds do not always equate larger profits. They need to find a balance to keep their "base" happy. I have no idea who their current base is, but it doesn't look like the group that is still clinging to free FP.

And I would argue that they ARE making adjustments - they're discounting the hotel costs at certain times of the year, and the DVC point charts really do incentivize going at the times of the year that they're less busy.

 

[randumb0]

Epic Universe opens next summer and the rumor is that the only way you will be able to go is by purchasing a multi park ticket. If that's the case then Disney attendance will be low next summer as well

 

[muppets3d]

"revenge travel" bubble is over, and Disney has found the bottom of the number of people who are willing to pay their prices.

 

[Nancyg56]

I tried to insert quotes and have given up.

I think that the re are a lot of reasons that crowds are lower, and I am not at all sure much of it has to do with the economy or politics.

My family is a Disney family and for years we made at least one trip per year. We saved in order to have the vacation we enjoyed, and even though we noticed price increases, we continued to choose WDW. And then COVID happened. We noticed that the upcharges that had been hinted at many times were put into place and were COVID justified. The inclusions we had always enjoyed were removed.

Prices increased a lot, services and experiences decreased. We could afford WDW vacation, but we did not want one that was not going to bring the experience we had felt that we wanted. So we ventured elsewhere.

For the same money we generally spent on a really nice WDW vacation we could travel to Aruba and we did not cut corners there either. We chose not to spend our vacation money in WDW. That was not the economy speaking. that was us.

Food is expensive in every vacation destination, but that is something that can be mitigated if folks want to do that. I dont find value in comparing apples to oranges. I can pay for WDW meals, bring food in, or find inexpensive alternatives if I want to rent a car. We all make choices in order to stay within our vacation budget.

The sun is a problem IMO. Where is the shade? What happened to the seating spots for folks? I think many have been removed, and there is very little shade in most parks. Our local park has little misting things for people.

 

[cmbr]

We don't know for sure if Disney really needs a wake up call. Are they actually losing money over the alleged low crowds? Or are they gaining by serving fewer guests? Despite what some people think, higher crowds do not always equate larger profits. They need to find a balance to keep their "base" happy. I have no idea who their current base is, but it doesn't look like the group that is still clinging to free FP.

I think more than Disney needing a wake up call or not in a current monetary sense, what I find this discussion reveals, whether the lower crowds are more perception or reality, is the current perception audiences have of WDW. Realistically, in the event they're serving less guests yet making more money, I think it can reasonably be assumed they won't feel compelled to make big changes right now. But it doesn't necessarily make them look good and provides a pretty high barrier of entry to new people/families who have never taken a trip to WDW - a demographic I would argue Disney always wants to appeal to. Thus --

And I would argue that they ARE making adjustments - they're discounting the hotel costs at certain times of the year, and the DVC point charts really do incentivize going at the times of the year that they're less busy.

They do this kind of stuff to try and balance it out and not lose the appeal to that demographic. But if you look at general reaction to the idea that Disney crowds are lower, a lot of people seem to be considering that something Disney has earned in a consequential sense. I think that's telling of how a lot of their customer base feel about recent changes, or the idea that Disney is fine with relying on the customers willing to pay the higher prices. It just doesn't breed good will. It's Disney's responsibility and/or choice to respond to that, that's really what will determine how this monetarily impacts them in the long run.

Edit: TLDR because geez this ended up longer than I intended; Big company cares about money first but customer satisfaction determines the trajectory of the money flow, even if its impact is not immediately felt.

 

[Minnie1222]

And I would argue that they ARE making adjustments - they're discounting the hotel costs at certain times of the year, and the DVC point charts really do incentivize going at the times of the year that they're less busy.

Right! The summer has been considered slow season for the past 10-15 years based on the hotel rates. Why all the sudden Disney is in trouble if this has been thee trend for over a decade?

 

[muppets3d]

I will say that just because Pirates of the Caribbean is a 25 minute wait in July does not mean alarm bells are going off at TWDC.

I do think that Disney has found their ceiling in what folks are willing to pay to go to their parks without significant additional investment to enhance the experience.

No, an airport terminal looking building at EPCOT does not count as significant additional investment - no matter how long it took Disney to build it, or how much it cost them. The stage show there at Communicore seriously looks like something at a Six Flags. Seriously disappointing to be honest.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Epic Universe opens next summer and the rumor is that the only way you will be able to go is by purchasing a multi park ticket. If that's the case then Disney attendance will be low next summer as well

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Mamabun]

Considering Universal un-blocked my seasonal annual pass for half the month of July, I don’t think lower summer crowds are necessarily the result of any Disney actions.

 

[Kingkonig]

Considering Universal un-blocked my seasonal annual pass for half the month of July, I don’t think lower summer crowds are necessarily the result of any Disney actions.

Didn’t they also lower the cost retroactively too?

I thought I saw where some people were getting refunds/adjustments down to their monthly payments for their annual passes. Granted, that might have been clickbait I saw

 

[jeneric997]

The summer has had lower crowds for years. I had a friend ask about going in October because they thought it would be a low crowd time! I had to tell them that October is not anywhere close to lower crowds. I think people assume that school schedules greatly affect the crowds and I would say that it isn't as much as people think. For the past 7-8 years we have been surprised at how easy it is to get an ADR in summer. Most people don't want to melt and deal with daily rain and just assume it's going to be crowded, so the don't go. Also, the cheapest of FL AP's are blocked on weekends.

I also think the DVC points overflow from COVID has finally run out. I know some of those resorts are running lower in capacity right now.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't mind flying. At this moment, I'd rather go to Disney than Europe. It's just a personal preference.

You said transatlantic flight so I assumed it was the flying.