Thoughts on why crowds are lower this summer so far??

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think you missed the point. Maybe people are figuring that if they can afford a Disney vacation they can also afford some of those exotic places on their bucket list. When we were in Zurich last year my son commented on the price of food. I told him to think of it as Disney prices. Zurich is pricey, but if you’ve been to WDW your like “meh”.

It's funny how you start to use Disney as your reference point either from complexity or time spent planning, pricing or walking. I often use walking as mine like "oh this is like a half Disney day"

 

[J-Dog]

I was just pointing out Disney food is more expensive and not as good as food you could get on a European trip.

But is this actually true, or are you just cherry-picking and only remembering the best restaurants? Are you trying to say that Rome has 10,000 restaurants and everyone of them is better than WDW's best restaurant?

Or is it more likely to be true that Rome has mediocre food too, but since it's not the same "bubble" that WDW is, so the tourists only notice the best places?

I will fully admit that I've never been to Europe, but I also have no plans because my kids don't care to see "real" castles, they would rather see Tiana.

So I still say that the demographics and scope of Europe vs WDW is too great to be accurate in any way.

 

[123SA]

At this point, I'm hoping that all the usual July Disney people didn't decide to go in August this year instead. I'm also hoping that the new lightning lane makes people decide to hold off on their spur of the moment trips until there is more info available. For purely selfish reasons, I'm hoping that this trend of relatively lighter than usual crowds holds through the middle of August.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

At this point, I'm hoping that all the usual July Disney people didn't decide to go in August this year instead. I'm also hoping that the new lightning lane makes people decide to hold off on their spur of the moment trips until there is more info available. For purely selfish reasons, I'm hoping that this trend of relatively lighter than usual crowds holds through the middle of August.

With Food & Wine reverting to its pre-pandemic timeframe that may help for August, will be something to track

 

[Mango7100]

But is this actually true, or are you just cherry-picking and only remembering the best restaurants? Are you trying to say that Rome has 10,000 restaurants and everyone of them is better than WDW's best restaurant?

Or is it more likely to be true that Rome has mediocre food too, but since it's not the same "bubble" that WDW is, so the tourists only notice the best places?

I will fully admit that I've never been to Europe, but I also have no plans because my kids don't care to see "real" castles, they would rather see Tiana.

So I still say that the demographics and scope of Europe vs WDW is too great to be accurate in any way.

OK, now this is just silly. You got me…I can’t say that every one of Romes 10000 restaurants is better than Victoria and Albert’s. Can you say every single one of Disneys restaurants is better than Romes worse? I also said that WDW is not as good as the food you “could” get in Europe, not that it is better than every single restaurant in the continent of Europe. I am willing to wager that a $20 pizza in Naples is going to be better than the $30 pizza in the food court at Pop.

In my experience of 10+ international trips in the last 15 years and hundreds of meals in various countries from Iceland to Italy the food I ate was better than WDW. Did I enjoy my $70 dinner buffet at WDW? Yes, but not as much as $70 got me on various other meals overseas. I have 100% come away from a WDW meal thinking “that wasn’t worth the cost” but I have not in Europe. Again, the value of my dollar is not as much at WDW as it is other places. Doesn’t mean I don’t want a WDW vacation sometimes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But is this actually true, or are you just cherry-picking and only remembering the best restaurants? Are you trying to say that Rome has 10,000 restaurants and everyone of them is better than WDW's best restaurant?

Or is it more likely to be true that Rome has mediocre food too, but since it's not the same "bubble" that WDW is, so the tourists only notice the best places?

I will fully admit that I've never been to Europe, but I also have no plans because my kids don't care to see "real" castles, they would rather see Tiana.

So I still say that the demographics and scope of Europe vs WDW is too great to be accurate in any way.

lol your quotes. Sometimes people can see past Disney here. I'm sure little kids love Tiana and I'm not sure they would fully appreciate a 12th century castle but that doesn't mean they wouldn't ever want to go see one. Truth we have castles here too in the U.S., there's a late 1800s castle right in my area but alas no not the age of other places around the world (or what would ordinarily be considered a castle). My parents could have never afforded a trip to Europe when I was a kid but as an adult I want to travel and I am, my mom is beyond amazed at how much we travel because we love to see around. You're not going to Disney to be immersed in ancient or medieval history, you're going there for some fun. While I can say I had a blast listening to the audio tour (which was PG-13 in humor IMO) at a castle in Ghent I went there for the history of it and I did see some kids but majority were adults (for a reason). Different places for different types of things. But kids don't stay kids forever and going on a log flume ride themed to Tiana isn't going to stay at the top of their list for decades. Hopefully you'd support it if they wanted to see that "real" castle as you put it

I actually don't think tourists notice the best places either, it's possible to have a so so food elsewhere (I know we have) but overall the food budget went a heck of a lot further outside of WDW and the food was much more evenly to be better valued. Obviously we're in a YMMV situation here, but you should check out Europe someday, see for yourself

 

[kwdw]

I think it’s a ton of small things that are adding up to make it less crowded in the summer. Disney used to be easier to plan with more pieces of the vacation easier to plan, it’s has gotten more expensive comparatively, and 100 degree heat index in early June doesn’t help drive later summer bookings. It’s not the years of free airport transportation and luggage service, free FP, a free dining plan that seemed to be worth it, and super long summer park hours. Those days are over.

I know folks who used to love Disney in the summer and they basically toured the parks as night owls, avoiding the heat of the day. Now they see parks closing at 9 pm and feel like they can’t avoid the heat. The new dining plan? It’s a joke as it’s very easy to see that there’s no cost benefit for folks while before, most folks saw that they could easily get their money’s worth. The cost of Genie+ (soon to be LLMP) is easy math to see how it adds up. I know families pre-Covid would never dream of taking their kids out of achool during the year, and now they will.

All these little things add up to lower summer crowds.

I do really hope Disney gets its act together and starts designing park features to handle the summer temps better. I’ve seen too many projects lately that just don’t seem to recognize the need to provide shade and other relief from the heat based on park design features.

 

[Dumbotron]

This has been a very interesting thread! My thoughts for whatever they are worth:
1) I don't think the heat is an issue because it is hotter. I think the theory about pulling kids out of school more often makes sense though.
2) I think moving former DAS users to SB makes a BIG difference since they can only wait in one line at a time and LL lines are shorter, the SB lines move faster even with more people in them.
3) I think increased living costs overall are absolutely making a difference. Our insurance costs have tripled in 15 years without ever making a claim. Our electric costs have gone up 70%. For us we can still afford Disney but that's where the decrease in quality leads us to look at other places instead. And while we can't compare the quality of WDW food with Rome, we can compare it to WDW 10 years ago. Josh at EasyWdw (I miss him so much) was great at posting side by side pictures of offerings from year to year. The food got smaller, dryer, and plainer. And that's forgetting the price increases.
4) I do think people underestimate the impact becoming very political has affected how people feel about disney. Agree with them or not, I do not want any politics on my vacations. I tell my patients not to watch the news all the time because I've seen how it impacts their health. People need a break. Vacation is a break. Universal has been so much smarter about this it blows my mind.
5) I compare Disney to my legacy cell plan. Lately I shopped around and found out that I can't even get what I have with other carriers (or my own carrier if I switched plans) no matter how much I pay. It's just not offered anymore. With disney, I'd pay a big price increase if I could still get what I got in 2016 (late hours, early hours, better themed hotels, better customer service, better themed merch, classic food they don't have anymore) but it's not offered no matter how much we pay. I just don't get the feeling Disney likes its customers much.
We will go back, but I can't imagine taking a big chunk of time off work and making it our big annual family vacation again any time soon.

 

[J-Dog]

OK, now this is just silly. You got me…I can’t say that every one of Romes 10000 restaurants is better than Victoria and Albert’s. Can you say every single one of Disneys restaurants is better than Romes worse? I also said that WDW is not as good as the food you “could” get in Europe, not that it is better than every single restaurant in the continent of Europe. I am willing to wager that a $20 pizza in Naples is going to be better than the $30 pizza in the food court at Pop.

In my experience of 10+ international trips in the last 15 years and hundreds of meals in various countries from Iceland to Italy the food I ate was better than WDW. Did I enjoy my $70 dinner buffet at WDW? Yes, but not as much as $70 got me on various other meals overseas. I have 100% come away from a WDW meal thinking “that wasn’t worth the cost” but I have not in Europe. Again, the value of my dollar is not as much at WDW as it is other places. Doesn’t mean I don’t want a WDW vacation sometimes.

Yes, that makes sense, but my point is that if you've eaten at 90% of the restaurants in WDW, and eaten at 2% of the restaurants in Rome, it's difficult to make an accurate comparison.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Now they see parks closing at 9 pm and feel like they can’t avoid the heat.

Plus any extra evening hours are only for Deluxe or you'd have to do an after hours event

 

[Minnie1222]

I do really hope Disney gets its act together and starts designing park features to handle the summer temps better. I’ve seen too many projects lately that just don’t seem to recognize the need to provide shade and other relief from the heat based on park design features.

They are trying!

 

[thegash35]

It's because people can no longer afford it.

The economy isn't great. Wages are suppressed and corporate greed continues to drive cost of living increases (it's not inflation at this point so let's stop calling it that - it's pure greed). There have been recent surveys where most Americans say they cannot afford to take a summer vacation b/c cost of living expenses are too high.

For the past 10 years Disney has raised prices in an effort to lower crowds to improve the guest experience. It seems like their strategy is finally starting to yield fruit. Ultimately, it's better for Disney to have fewer people spending more money than it is to have 10/10 level crowds spending less money per guest.

 

[DCLMP]

But is this actually true, or are you just cherry-picking and only remembering the best restaurants? Are you trying to say that Rome has 10,000 restaurants and everyone of them is better than WDW's best restaurant?

Or is it more likely to be true that Rome has mediocre food too, but since it's not the same "bubble" that WDW is, so the tourists only notice the best places?

I will fully admit that I've never been to Europe, but I also have no plans because my kids don't care to see "real" castles, they would rather see Tiana.

So I still say that the demographics and scope of Europe vs WDW is too great to be accurate in any way.

Every place I've eaten in Europe has been better than anything at WDW. The restaurants at WDW are edible at best. The signature restaurants can be good, but not worth the price.

Someday your kids may want to travel mined did.

 

[DCLMP]

It's because people can no longer afford it.

The economy isn't great. Wages are suppressed and corporate greed continues to drive cost of living increases (it's not inflation at this point so let's stop calling it that - it's pure greed). There have been recent surveys where most Americans say they cannot afford to take a summer vacation b/c cost of living expenses are too high.

For the past 10 years Disney has raised prices in an effort to lower crowds to improve the guest experience. It seems like their strategy is finally starting to yield fruit. Ultimately, it's better for Disney to have fewer people spending more money than it is to have 10/10 level crowds spending less money per guest.

I wouldn't even know where to begin explaining simple economics to you. Corporate greed you can't be serious?

 

[Minnie1222]

I agree there are many cheaper options than Disney. But there's no point of pursuing the cheaper option if it's not the experience you want. At this moment, you would have to drag me by the feet to get me on a transatlantic flight.

 

[fatmanatee]

The economy isn't great. Wages are suppressed and corporate greed continues to drive cost of living increases (it's not inflation at this point so let's stop calling it that - it's pure greed). There have been recent surveys where most Americans say they cannot afford to take a summer vacation b/c cost of living expenses are too high.

Without getting into the particulars about WDW this isn’t bearing out in travel data. They’ve been setting records in air travel all year.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tsa-airport-security-screen-record-3-million/

 

[DCLMP]

I agree there are many cheaper options than Disney. But there's no point of pursuing the cheaper option if it's not the experience you want. At this moment, you would have to drag me by the feet to get me on a transatlantic flight.

I'm guessing you don't like to fly?

 

[DCLMP]

OK, now this is just silly. You got me…I can’t say that every one of Romes 10000 restaurants is better than Victoria and Albert’s. Can you say every single one of Disneys restaurants is better than Romes worse? I also said that WDW is not as good as the food you “could” get in Europe, not that it is better than every single restaurant in the continent of Europe. I am willing to wager that a $20 pizza in Naples is going to be better than the $30 pizza in the food court at Pop.

In my experience of 10+ international trips in the last 15 years and hundreds of meals in various countries from Iceland to Italy the food I ate was better than WDW. Did I enjoy my $70 dinner buffet at WDW? Yes, but not as much as $70 got me on various other meals overseas. I have 100% come away from a WDW meal thinking “that wasn’t worth the cost” but I have not in Europe. Again, the value of my dollar is not as much at WDW as it is other places. Doesn’t mean I don’t want a WDW vacation sometimes.

I think it's better than most of the US. It's a completely different experience with all the family owned small restaurants and cafes. Fresh food from local farmers. The US is mostly corporate mediocre chain restaurants. There are still some some cities in the US that have small business and independent restaurants. Unfortunately I don't live in one of those.

 

[Minnie1222]

I'm guessing you don't like to fly?

I don't mind flying. At this moment, I'd rather go to Disney than Europe. It's just a personal preference.

 

[Minnie1222]

Ultimately, it's better for Disney to have fewer people spending more money than it is to have 10/10 level crowds spending less money per guest.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's better for them and better for the guests who are still willing to pay. BOG is a good example of this practice. Despite being the easiest MK restaurant to get a reservation, they're still thriving after ending their Quick Service.